TODA camshafts questions

[shiroitenshi]

Okay.. here's a few questions I cannot get answers for.

a) How many models of TODA cams are available?
b) Is there a Type D?
c) What are the specifications of a Type D?
d) Is it a race-only cam, hence not listed on the website?

I know of Type A, B and C.

But currently I'm hearing that a TODA type D is available, but without the cam papers and such.. I'm curious about the existence of it, and even more on the actual duration of the primary, secondary and middle lobe.


Assuming that it does, and it's already in the engine, and to degree the cams.. I need the specs... preferable duration with valve lift.. not the ones on the websites, but from the cam papers that came with the cam, with the detailed specs... if it does exist.

Yes, probably gonna have to check for valve piston clearance issues as well, in case you think I wasn't thinking it.

Anyone?

 

[udengfahlawi]

toda website not really helpful...i emailed them before also they never reply....

 

[shiroitenshi]

toda website not really helpful...i emailed them before also they never reply....

In english or japanese? I've been seeing a trend by most japanese makers to adopt an 'english friendly policy', so mostly nowdays all english capable, even though using software translators or etc.

Anyway.. does the cam exist in the first place? I don't want to email toda and they go like "What type D? We don't make type D!"

So hopefully zth'er can give more information on these cams.

 

[xxxx]

shiro,

it's actually called the toda spec D.
it's spec is specially built for eric aguilar (eric's racing)
n the infos are...

These camshafts are made in Japan by Toda Racing specially for Erick's Racing (Spec 'D'). ​

• Billet camshafts using the best material and manufacturing process to achieve high quality and reliability. ​
• Large primary lobe (low speed) to improve mid range torque and smooth VTEC transition. ​
• High lift / long duration secondary lobe (high speed) for maximum output at high rpm. ​
• Available for B16 / B18.​

Specifications:
Intake Primary 11mm 250
Intake Secondary 11mm 250
Intake High (VTEC) 12.9mm 305
Exhaust Primary 11mm 250
Exhaust Secondary 11mm 250
Exhaust High (VTEC )11.9mm 315

These camshafts are high lift and duration,
designed for use in road race and drag race engines. ​

 

[shiroitenshi]

Thanks.. so they do exist.. there is a problem though... I wonder what kind of duration numbers they're using, since they do not include the 'valve lift from seat' numbers where the measurements are taken. 1mm? or the american format of 1.27mm? Oh well, in terms of that .27mm, need to check valve clearance anyway, and probably by degree-in, can get the specs of the primary lobe anyway and check for the lift numbers.. probably be a bit off anyway, since there's probably wear at the tappets or rocker arms.

I'll check out the specs of the cams tommorow... found the site already.. once I knew they're spec D, not type A/B/C.. (>.
Still, it's missing the lobe centerline measurements I need to calculate opening and closing of the valves.. which means I should get emailing.. but I'd rather not until I get a clearer picture on what to ask.. probably after what I see tommorow.

But from the general idea.. I think this is a cam that's meant for 10K rpm carslah.. crazy duration numbers even if I think of it as 1mm like the japanese as opposed to the american 0.050" (1.27mm)

with the primary and secondary lobe having the duration of a stock B16A VTEC lobe.. I think you can roughly guess what the lower end torque will be like, and how this car will like higher rpm around 5-6K launches unlike stock B20Bs at 2.5-3K.

v8_nutter, xxxx and chris2000,? What you think?

 

[hattech-v]

japanese cam tend to use a smaller lift value for the duration to make the duration number bigger... thats why they use 0.04inch (1mm) to quote the duration while us cams using 0.05inch (1.27mm)...

jun website quite helpful when u sending then any enquiry about their products...
not like todak... hehe

 

[eddie_vtec]

i got 1 question...if use toda B or C...valve spring type r can support this cam?some ppl say can use bcoze the duration not over then 300 degree...

 

[udengfahlawi]

wah....eddie plays Toda now....respect.....

 

[chris2000]

shiro,

All know is these cams are in by Toda Japan for Eric only. Hence, if you do email Toda Jap, i heard they will tell there is no such Spec. :) And these cams are supposely available through Eric himself or his dealers. If i not wrong all japanese advertised duration are all measure at 0mm, hence you see all their numbers very high like 295 or 315 etc. All this only advertised duration so to really compare the cams spec all have to degree back to 1mm or 0.05".

These cams i heard can put power to 10k rpm depending on your other bolt ons and bottom end. Again compression has to be high like i said in earlier threads or you will lose quite a bit of low end compared to a less agressive cams like Toda C.

Just my opinions only, never used any of these Toda D.

I believe there are people selling in sunway. Can't remember who it was but it should N1 or JC Asia. Check with them about these cams.

 

[chris2000]

i got 1 question...if use toda B or C...valve spring type r can support this cam?some ppl say can use bcoze the duration not over then 300 degree...

No, it is not safe! It is not the duration that kills your motor. It is the high lift that will cause your valve spring to bind causing a valve drop or valve kiss your pistons.

Toda A 11.6mm
Toda B 12.0mm

If i don't recall wrongly, the Type R springs will bind at 11.6 or 11.8mm. So with Toda A, you might just get away with it provided you stay withing stock type R rev cut. But still i would recommend a spring upgrade as insurance due to the higher than lobe. Now many performance valve sping upgrades are very competitive priced if you do not want to go for the pricey Toda springs. You have option like Crower, Brian Crower and our Omni Power, all from USA. Valve spring upgrade is still cheaper than buying an engine kosong.

But Toda B is no no, as it will consistently bind and drop a valve very soon.

If you go TOda website it will state for all Toda Cams "Up rated(TODA)valve spring required"

 

[chris2000]

i got 1 question...if use toda B or C...valve spring type r can support this cam?some ppl say can use bcoze the duration not over then 300 degree...

Did a quick search for you and to share with the rest of the guys here. Test done in November 06 by RM USA.

BVTEC Spring Test

http://m24x.com/images/Springs/BVTEC/springtest.bmp

Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs.

Quick Notes
1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind.
2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring.
3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures.
4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same. 5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely.


TEST DONE AND PROVEN IN USA

From the test you can see ITR/CTR valve spring bind at 13.1mm and you need about min 1.5mm free travel after max lift. So 13.1mm - 1.5mm = 11.6mm safe lift limit.

So you can use Toad A with ITR springs safely, but you will KILL your engine with Toda B (12mm) and C (12.5mm)!!

 

[udengfahlawi]

how come Toda (Japan) doesn't produce Toda retainer but Toda (USA) does?...i emailed Japan asking about this they never reply....

 

[eddie_vtec]

Did a quick search for you and to share with the rest of the guys here. Test done in November 06 by RM USA.

BVTEC Spring Test

http://m24x.com/images/Springs/BVTEC/springtest.bmp

Cliff Notes for the Spring Chart
1. The 0.00 Lift Column is Closed Pressure aka Seat Pressure, pressure when the valve is closed.
2. Look at the 0.500 lift column to see the Open Pressure. OE B16/GSR springs cannot reach this lift so look at the 0.400 lift column for Open Pressure for these springs.

Quick Notes
1. Lift at Coil Bind means the spring is solid at this lift. General rule of thumb for BVTEC is that there should be at least 1.5mm travel over maximum valve lift. This means if you have 12.00mm valve lift then you need at least 13.50mm travel before coil bind.
2. B16 dual spring coil binds at 12.2mm. You cannot safely use this spring with 12mm camshafts without over stressing the spring or binding the spring.
3. Supertech H1002D spring pressure and lift capabilities match all manufacturer specs except for seat pressue. Seat pressure from test is only 60lbs vs. 70lbs as specified by Supertech. It is common to have some variance between spring testers in the lower pressures.
4. ITR springs allow for use of 12mm camshafts but this would be an extreme limit for lift capabilities. The relatively low pressure does not allow for any extended rpm usage without increasing risk of valve float and resulting engine damage from same. 5. B16 Single spring lacks pressure to run any performance camshaft safely.


TEST DONE AND PROVEN IN USA

From the test you can see ITR/CTR valve spring bind at 13.1mm and you need about min 1.5mm free travel after max lift. So 13.1mm - 1.5mm = 11.6mm safe lift limit.

So you can use Toad A with ITR springs safely, but you will KILL your engine with Toda B (12mm) and C (12.5mm)!!

good info...thanks chris....

 

[J101]

shiroi,
I have not seen the Toda Type D physically since Ericks came out with it few years back. I have heard ppl using it locally but then again, its just plain rumours (trade secrets as usual god knows). I personally contacted Adrian from Toda Racing Australia for more details and indeed they gave me a good feedback. The kit comes with Spec D valve springs and titanium retainers. Its very expensive. I'll check again the part numbers and prices if you are interested. But that prices was in year 2004.

cheers

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiroi,
I have not seen the Toda Type D physically since Ericks came out with it few years back. I have heard ppl using it locally but then again, its just plain rumours (trade secrets as usual god knows). I personally contacted Adrian from Toda Racing Australia for more details and indeed they gave me a good feedback. The kit comes with Spec D valve springs and titanium retainers. Its very expensive. I'll check again the part numbers and prices if you are interested. But that prices was in year 2004.

cheers

Not looking to buy actually, more like it's already in an engine, as the owner claims. Considering the uber-buck parts he uses.. I'm not that skeptical if it's true.

Thanks for your input guys.. I'll check with the owner again.

 

[zaki]

shiroi,
I have not seen the Toda Type D physically since Ericks came out with it few years back. I have heard ppl using it locally but then again, its just plain rumours (trade secrets as usual god knows). I personally contacted Adrian from Toda Racing Australia for more details and indeed they gave me a good feedback. The kit comes with Spec D valve springs and titanium retainers. Its very expensive. I'll check again the part numbers and prices if you are interested. But that prices was in year 2004.

cheers

Do they make any recommendation on the engine setup like compression and engine capacity?

 

[J101]

hello zaki
they did not mention about engine compression or capacities. let me go home and double check the email(printed hardcopy) and see if they mention other things, which i doubt. been reading other forums and so far the americans would know better on this cams. so far they said, compression at least has to be 13:5, vtec open around 6800-7200 or more based on your setup. also the head needs to be machined to suit the cams. very vague information. best u would email ericks personally.

 

[shiroitenshi]

not head machined I think, more like due to the high lift, the rocker arm on the tappet side needs to be milled to clear the retainers since they sit higher than stock.. Not sure though.

Anyway.. I'll try mailing erick racing.. it's strange that they didn't include the cam specs when the owner purchased it.. used one maybe?

Still, it's unclear to me until I check out more later this evening.

 

[J101]

hello zaki and shiroi

my last email dated 22 April 2003 to Toda Australia.

There wasnt much info on the Toda D as the few queries emails to them were about the Toda Sports Injection Kit (4 Throttle) actually. At the same time i asked abt the Toda D. Actually before that i did correspond with Ericks few times and the only thing i can think of during that time was the Hondata S200, i have forgotten about the rest.

Part Number Description Price
14111-B16-00D - Toda D Spec Intake Camshafts AUD1265
14121-B16-00D - Toda D Spec Exhaust Camshafts AUD 1265
14760-B16-000 - Uprated Valve Springs to suit Toda D AUD792
14750-B16-0Ti - Toda AU titanium Valve Spring Retainers to suit Toda D AUD625

The prices quoted was in year 2003.

If i were to add all the figures 1265+1265+792+625=AUD3947

That will be RM10,681

Sounds good?

 

[shiroitenshi]

hello zaki and shiroi

my last email dated 22 April 2003 to Toda Australia.

There wasnt much info on the Toda D as the few queries emails to them were about the Toda Sports Injection Kit (4 Throttle) actually. At the same time i asked abt the Toda D. Actually before that i did correspond with Ericks few times and the only thing i can think of during that time was the Hondata S200, i have forgotten about the rest.

Part Number Description Price
14111-B16-00D - Toda D Spec Intake Camshafts AUD1265
14121-B16-00D - Toda D Spec Exhaust Camshafts AUD 1265
14760-B16-000 - Uprated Valve Springs to suit Toda D AUD792
14750-B16-0Ti - Toda AU titanium Valve Spring Retainers to suit Toda D AUD625

The prices quoted was in year 2003.

If i were to add all the figures 1265+1265+792+625=AUD3947

That will be RM10,681

Sounds good?

Thanks for the info, J101.. but as for the owner.. let's just say that affordability isn't a problem for him.. he happens to own the toda quads as well, although never used due to various reasons.