SIC 'marshalls' during Super GT
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hahahhahaha... still going strong ma.. this thread... ahhahahaa...
ofcos u won't b like that ma... every1 knows that...:proud:
Can I share more pics? :)
Bomba dude making sure everything is ok? Or ..... ??
Bomba crew getting into the action
The face of the culprit
ohh, GTqueen too hot. easy flameable. so bomba standby to `shot` cum to them. dun mistake
hmmm...let see if this explains to Mr.Azman...
u see, we pay our hard earned money to enter, pay extra to walk under the hot sun, wasted alot of time to que up to go into that hot and narrow tunnel just to enter the pit to wolf around to enjoy there for maybe 30 minutes?....
But marshals who suppose to take care of everything to work smoothly (ie; work more effiecient so that we don't need to que for so long, wasted half an hour queing..) is there as VIP member ahead of us....
let see if below explain even better if my lousy language is difficult to understand..
At Zouk:
1) [i pay for drinks], enjoy drinks, looking at girls (i pick up one if luck is good) -typical consumer/customer.
2) [waiters are being paid] to work and serve customer. didnt really work but compete with consumer/customer to pick up girls instead - bad workers/waiters...
SIC:
1) [i(we) paid $] to go watch the race and have fun by a little babaric behavior - typical consumer...biasa la...hehe..
2) [Marshals are being paid to do their job] (what does "JOB/WORK" mean?) to make sure everything is secured & event is running smooth..but instead of doing their job, they compete, grab, fight for freebies like consumer did (hey, don't forget, consumer paid RM250~at least, to deserve those priorities) - This Marshal is good workers?
if can get paid + get to enjoy, come one, i will work for FREE next round...
as long as i get to enter SIC for free, go in the pit for free, grab for free and have all the priorities....
i think not only me, everyone here will volunteer too...LOL..
no offence...just my cents and point of view..:rolleyes:
u see, we pay our hard earned money to enter, pay extra to walk under the hot sun, wasted alot of time to que up to go into that hot and narrow tunnel just to enter the pit to wolf around to enjoy there for maybe 30 minutes?....
But marshals who suppose to take care of everything to work smoothly (ie; work more effiecient so that we don't need to que for so long, wasted half an hour queing..) is there as VIP member ahead of us....
let see if below explain even better if my lousy language is difficult to understand..
At Zouk:
1) [i pay for drinks], enjoy drinks, looking at girls (i pick up one if luck is good) -typical consumer/customer.
2) [waiters are being paid] to work and serve customer. didnt really work but compete with consumer/customer to pick up girls instead - bad workers/waiters...
SIC:
1) [i(we) paid $] to go watch the race and have fun by a little babaric behavior - typical consumer...biasa la...hehe..
2) [Marshals are being paid to do their job] (what does "JOB/WORK" mean?) to make sure everything is secured & event is running smooth..but instead of doing their job, they compete, grab, fight for freebies like consumer did (hey, don't forget, consumer paid RM250~at least, to deserve those priorities) - This Marshal is good workers?
if can get paid + get to enjoy, come one, i will work for FREE next round...
as long as i get to enter SIC for free, go in the pit for free, grab for free and have all the priorities....
i think not only me, everyone here will volunteer too...LOL..
no offence...just my cents and point of view..:rolleyes:
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they just act like King there.. good workers..??
be like one fren of mine... during A1GP she was sooo furious.. she met Mokhzani at the pits n scolded him in front of the A1GP guy (team director or some big guy in A1GP)
She scolded regarding on some issue (about drivers n pits) n Mokhzani said "depends on the team directors not me,"
The team director said "oooo u want that ?? no prob tomorrow k,"
she said Mokhzani felt ashamed....
and she advised.. kalau angry just scold them....
tapi at least she dare to do that.. i dont..
about the marshalls rite ??? do u realize, is the same guys ????
the white glasses guy was around since 2004....
btw 2009 Super GT was an upset to many.. i hope Super GT 2010 would not be worst than this !
SUper GT 2010 planned calender is out !!
Azman, I/we are just highlighting what many consumer/race fans have been enduring all these years in SIC during the Super GT.
A policeman's pay is also not high, does that mean that they can have fun harassing girls on the street? They are just having some fun? Or worst still some of them are criminals themselves -this is from a real personal experience.
Please delete off your post if this thread is not to your liking. You can go elsewhere.
At least I don't go around calling people BASTARD.
A policeman's pay is also not high, does that mean that they can have fun harassing girls on the street? They are just having some fun? Or worst still some of them are criminals themselves -this is from a real personal experience.
Please delete off your post if this thread is not to your liking. You can go elsewhere.
At least I don't go around calling people BASTARD.
Minion
Junior Member
Way too late or not, better to educate you than letting this moronic trend go on. Stop being hypocrites. You're there to enjoy yourselves as we do. Now, allow me to educate you the different types of marshals: The orange suits > Post and recovery marshals at track corners. The Reds > Fire marshals posted standing by at the pit tunnels before and after start of race and on the grid at start of the race. The Yellows > Medical marshals standby at the pit tunnels too and along offtrack at times too. The Blues > Pit and grid marshals standby on the pit wall, by the pits and on the grid. Now, after saying that, you're taking potshots at those marshals other than the blues? They don't have duties going on during the pit walkabout session. They could come down to take the shots and souvenirs as they want as they're not restricted wholeheartedly due to the fact that they sometimes risk their lives to provide the appropriate services as with their duties and left to stand under the torturing weather. Tell me how photographers risk their life or money taking shots during pit walkabouts? The only risk i see you have mentioned is that your belonging was damaged. Where was your belonging when it got damaged? Did you take precaution and weigh the thoughts that you were going to attend to an area where there was going to be a big crowd with fast moving people and fast vehicles? You can take your complaints to the court of law and still get your case squashed for SIC bears no responsibility to the damage of your belongings while you attend such events. Obviously, it's your own risk and it's stated in the terms and conditions you have accepted just as you got the pass. As an occasional chief of the blues, we don't really like to 'herd' you as we take it as pit walkabout pass holders are already aware of the schedule and the duration given for the sessions. If we don't push to get the crowd away from the pits in time, the next part of the event gets delayed and the rest follows. No one likes that, not even the spectators. We know you don't like to be touched but if you were to pay attention or stay alert to the blues' warning, things will run safe and smooth. For example, safety cars or officials often have to pass through the fast lane to open, close or inspect the track. They won't or can't horn at you because they're not in regular road vehicles to horn at you and partially because you have the right to be there during the session so they act respectfully. The blues ensure you don't linger on the fast lane with your eyes fixed elsewhere and not on approaching vehicles. We warn you of that danger when it approaches but it's up to you to hear us. Besides that, you can throw your insults on marshals taking shots of the girls in provocative manners but the girls are already there for all in provocative attire. So, if you believe you're a religious police of sorts.... pal, you're in the wrong side of town. Marshals need to enjoy the work they do coz if they don't, tough chances are future race events will be reduced. We're all in it to make race events successful as much as possible and we're there to enjoy the atmosphere just as much as you do. (Whoever came out with the idea that "what's a race event without girls"? I agree but not wholly. I'd say, "what's a race without anyone ensuring there will be a race?" I say this not for my profit but to help reach an understanding that feelings of hatred on those who strives hard for success be eliminated.
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------
As sincere as possible, i'll just reply to TEAMADVAN's comment from the last few lines. Firstly, make up your mind as whether you want to work for free or be paid to.You're most welcome to try out as a marshal. You will find the answers you need personally. That alone will test & prove your true interest in the motor sports and how long you will last with the interest. To apply, go to the malaysiangp.com.my or sepangcircuit.com.my website & find a section to apply as a marshal. Mind you, there is an AAM exam you will need to go through 1st to be graded as a licensed marshal. When the exam is to be held, you will be informed. Once you make it through, let me know. I'm not with AAM. Contact me at [email protected] and let me know it's you from here. We'll stay in touch and see your outcome. Ready?
---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
I hate to call you guys idiots but we're not biased to serve the foreigners in a special way other than the way we treat you. We treat everyone the same and we do it because SIC has the plans in schedule and standards and procedures to follow. Blaming the marshals for pushing (not physically) the crowd to disperse and clearing the pits before time is not proper. You ought to voice your dissatisfaction to SIC directly. The marshals are only doing what they were instructed to by SIC. Marshals being rude? 'Malaysian customers' tend to use the word "rude" when it really wasn't the situation when described in detail. So, get right into the detail as to who, what, where, when, which & why for an action from anybody to follow. If these can't be provided there's no way a case can be investigated, no?
---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:11 PM ----------
Seriously, you're calling the marshals as monkeys, hansap, 3rd world mentality, bringing bad name to the country... what else...? What about you yourselves? You don't realize that if you're a Malaysian, you're even better publicizing nothing bad but painting negative images of your own country? I'm doing the same as i'm saying it, aren't i? Well, at least i'd be slapping some sense to you and favoring your country by crushing this useless hate topic. If you're a foreigner, i'm sure you could be more 'professional' than how you depict yourselves to be by making your formal and useful complains or feedbacks sent to the right channel and allow them to proceed with action if necessary. If you truly believe that proof of images will bring you the result you expected, sorry to say that there are many more people who think otherwise as well. Answer these questions yourselves before you attempt to fire empty bullet shells: What was YOUR motive to snap those pics of the marshals? Was it jealousy? Was it just plain hatred regardless of the other professionals who take motor sports seriously? Were you one of the race team crews or drivers or race queens or officials who were against marshals taking snaps or souvenirs? Are you a frustrated VIP? Are you a VIP? Are you a marshal? Are you a photographer? Are you a media staff offended for not being able to grab on souvenirs or deprived of getting shots of the hotties yourself? Are you a spectator? Are you a party politician attempting to dig 'rubbish piles' for scraps to use against another? Are you a psychotic mama's boy who wants everybody to think & act like you do? Are you someone who finds humiliating another is a form of pleasure? Are you one who finds that using smileys will get you to put in your hard work of degrading another to higher places? Would you prefer if we hound and stalk your moves while you're plain enjoying yourselves? Do you have the right to take a picture of a stranger without their consent? Are you the holiest almighty to judge another by your digital devices? Do you not have your own weaknesses? Do you not have such pleasures yourselves? Do you not have enough money? Do you think we're above all with or without money? Do you really think we're kings? Do you think that without marshals, you would be able to handle the event more successfully? Do you think that your money spent on the pass is as worth as giving you every single piece of the action no matter where, when or how? Do you think that all marshals deserve the same treatment you give to the 'some' or 'few'? Do you think that the 'some' or 'few' marshals you've pinpointed made grave mistakes? If they did, can you say what they were again? Before you answer that, can you say why you came for the event yourself? .... and the list goes on.
---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:40 PM ----------
As sincere as possible, i'll just reply to TEAMADVAN's comment from the last few lines. Firstly, make up your mind as whether you want to work for free or be paid to.You're most welcome to try out as a marshal. You will find the answers you need personally. That alone will test & prove your true interest in the motor sports and how long you will last with the interest. To apply, go to the malaysiangp.com.my or sepangcircuit.com.my website & find a section to apply as a marshal. Mind you, there is an AAM exam you will need to go through 1st to be graded as a licensed marshal. When the exam is to be held, you will be informed. Once you make it through, let me know. I'm not with AAM. Contact me at [email protected] and let me know it's you from here. We'll stay in touch and see your outcome. Ready?
---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
I hate to call you guys idiots but we're not biased to serve the foreigners in a special way other than the way we treat you. We treat everyone the same and we do it because SIC has the plans in schedule and standards and procedures to follow. Blaming the marshals for pushing (not physically) the crowd to disperse and clearing the pits before time is not proper. You ought to voice your dissatisfaction to SIC directly. The marshals are only doing what they were instructed to by SIC. Marshals being rude? 'Malaysian customers' tend to use the word "rude" when it really wasn't the situation when described in detail. So, get right into the detail as to who, what, where, when, which & why for an action from anybody to follow. If these can't be provided there's no way a case can be investigated, no?
---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:11 PM ----------
Seriously, you're calling the marshals as monkeys, hansap, 3rd world mentality, bringing bad name to the country... what else...? What about you yourselves? You don't realize that if you're a Malaysian, you're even better publicizing nothing bad but painting negative images of your own country? I'm doing the same as i'm saying it, aren't i? Well, at least i'd be slapping some sense to you and favoring your country by crushing this useless hate topic. If you're a foreigner, i'm sure you could be more 'professional' than how you depict yourselves to be by making your formal and useful complains or feedbacks sent to the right channel and allow them to proceed with action if necessary. If you truly believe that proof of images will bring you the result you expected, sorry to say that there are many more people who think otherwise as well. Answer these questions yourselves before you attempt to fire empty bullet shells: What was YOUR motive to snap those pics of the marshals? Was it jealousy? Was it just plain hatred regardless of the other professionals who take motor sports seriously? Were you one of the race team crews or drivers or race queens or officials who were against marshals taking snaps or souvenirs? Are you a frustrated VIP? Are you a VIP? Are you a marshal? Are you a photographer? Are you a media staff offended for not being able to grab on souvenirs or deprived of getting shots of the hotties yourself? Are you a spectator? Are you a party politician attempting to dig 'rubbish piles' for scraps to use against another? Are you a psychotic mama's boy who wants everybody to think & act like you do? Are you someone who finds humiliating another is a form of pleasure? Are you one who finds that using smileys will get you to put in your hard work of degrading another to higher places? Would you prefer if we hound and stalk your moves while you're plain enjoying yourselves? Do you have the right to take a picture of a stranger without their consent? Are you the holiest almighty to judge another by your digital devices? Do you not have your own weaknesses? Do you not have such pleasures yourselves? Do you not have enough money? Do you think we're above all with or without money? Do you really think we're kings? Do you think that without marshals, you would be able to handle the event more successfully? Do you think that your money spent on the pass is as worth as giving you every single piece of the action no matter where, when or how? Do you think that all marshals deserve the same treatment you give to the 'some' or 'few'? Do you think that the 'some' or 'few' marshals you've pinpointed made grave mistakes? If they did, can you say what they were again? Before you answer that, can you say why you came for the event yourself? .... and the list goes on.
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Dear Minion. People won't complain here if their complains are heard through the proper channel. Just like how the public brings the news of incompetency of our police forces to the media so are they jealous? are they trying to get some free souvenirs from the police? And this Marshal thing have been going on for years and if the complains are heard and rectified then we should be seeing less of such complains. No?
People here are complaining the lack of PROFESSIONALISM from the Marshals and staff...I will not say all the Marshals or staff are rotten apple. I believe there are a few good ones around.
I've went to D1 Grand Prix in Fuji Speedway before and during the pit session. The Marshals are not like here go and take photo of race queens, harassing them and ask for freebies. They stand their position and are always on alert at surrounding areas of the pit. They never mixed into the crowd. When assistance are needed they are always there to help immediately. This is the type of professionalism we are talking about.
Maybe you are one of the Marshals who photo is been posted here and not feeling happy about it?
This thread is put up so that it serves as a reminder to others and proof of misconduct. We are not in a dictatorship country my friend, it's a free world..grow up...
Here have a read..it helps
Motorsport marshal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>Pit and grid
Wearing distinctive shirts to set them apart from the pit crews and drivers, the pit and grid workers position the cars on the false grid, make last-minute safety checks, and are responsible for safety in the pit areas.
I wonder if taking pictures of race queens and getting freebies during the public pit walk is consider a safety checks...
People here are complaining the lack of PROFESSIONALISM from the Marshals and staff...I will not say all the Marshals or staff are rotten apple. I believe there are a few good ones around.
I've went to D1 Grand Prix in Fuji Speedway before and during the pit session. The Marshals are not like here go and take photo of race queens, harassing them and ask for freebies. They stand their position and are always on alert at surrounding areas of the pit. They never mixed into the crowd. When assistance are needed they are always there to help immediately. This is the type of professionalism we are talking about.
Maybe you are one of the Marshals who photo is been posted here and not feeling happy about it?
This thread is put up so that it serves as a reminder to others and proof of misconduct. We are not in a dictatorship country my friend, it's a free world..grow up...
Here have a read..it helps
Motorsport marshal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
>Pit and grid
Wearing distinctive shirts to set them apart from the pit crews and drivers, the pit and grid workers position the cars on the false grid, make last-minute safety checks, and are responsible for safety in the pit areas.
I wonder if taking pictures of race queens and getting freebies during the public pit walk is consider a safety checks...
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I hate to call you guys idiots but we're not biased to serve the foreigners in a special way other than the way we treat you. We treat everyone the same and we do it because SIC has the plans in schedule and standards and procedures to follow. Blaming the marshals for pushing (not physically) the crowd to disperse and clearing the pits before time is not proper. You ought to voice your dissatisfaction to SIC directly. The marshals are only doing what they were instructed to by SIC. Marshals being rude? 'Malaysian customers' tend to use the word "rude" when it really wasn't the situation when described in detail. So, get right into the detail as to who, what, where, when, which & why for an action from anybody to follow. If these can't be provided there's no way a case can be investigated, no?
To Mr.Minion a.k.a Mr. Professional Marshal.
Never knew Marshals on the pits were instructed by SIC to happily leave their post, take their own sweet time to take photos of Super GT girls and best of all 'FORCED' their way through to get as many souvenirs as they can alongside with the 'Spectators' who paid for the pitwalk to enjoy such privileges as pitwalk pass holders.
Don't even mention the colours of what the marshals are wearing cuz I don't bloody give a damn of what colours are they wearing. You as marshals are INSTRUCTED to do your job, and don't come and tell me your job is to collect souvenirs or taking photos of those Super girls. Like you said, you marshals are there to ensure the race and everything runs smoothly and according to plan. Making sure no one gets hurt and etcs. So do explain, when on earth did marshals learn to multitask as greatly as this? Collecting souvenirs, taking photos and at the same time able to make sure things are running smoothly at the pit? Wow...that's kinda impressive.
Taking AAM exams...about this, are there questions or test that would ask questions like this that made them pass?
1) If there is a crowd of pitwalk pass holders collecting freebies/souvenirs, how and what will you do to make sure you get your share of souvenirs as marshals?
Hmmm...that's what we call professionals who know their job? I wonder...this is kinda confusing.
I think is time to really slap some sense to yourself and read again on what you are trying to say. Especially the sentences below with so many confusing or off topic questions...:damnmate:
Answer these questions yourselves before you attempt to fire empty bullet shells: What was YOUR motive to snap those pics of the marshals? Was it jealousy? Was it just plain hatred regardless of the other professionals who take motor sports seriously? Were you one of the race team crews or drivers or race queens or officials who were against marshals taking snaps or souvenirs? Are you a frustrated VIP? Are you a VIP? Are you a marshal? Are you a photographer? Are you a media staff offended for not being able to grab on souvenirs or deprived of getting shots of the hotties yourself? Are you a spectator? Are you a party politician attempting to dig 'rubbish piles' for scraps to use against another? Are you a psychotic mama's boy who wants everybody to think & act like you do? Are you someone who finds humiliating another is a form of pleasure? Are you one who finds that using smileys will get you to put in your hard work of degrading another to higher places? Would you prefer if we hound and stalk your moves while you're plain enjoying yourselves? Do you have the right to take a picture of a stranger without their consent? Are you the holiest almighty to judge another by your digital devices? Do you not have your own weaknesses? Do you not have such pleasures yourselves? Do you not have enough money? Do you think we're above all with or without money? Do you really think we're kings? Do you think that without marshals, you would be able to handle the event more successfully? Do you think that your money spent on the pass is as worth as giving you every single piece of the action no matter where, when or how? Do you think that all marshals deserve the same treatment you give to the 'some' or 'few'? Do you think that the 'some' or 'few' marshals you've pinpointed made grave mistakes? If they did, can you say what they were again? Before you answer that, can you say why you came for the event yourself? .... and the list goes on.
Well, lets answer to your 'Professional' Questions...
1) What was YOUR motive to snap those pics of the marshals?
To show how pathetic and unprofessional the marshals are. (not all marshals are bad, just those who caught in the act) We are just trying to express our disappointment after tons of complains sent to SIC but no action was taken.
2)Was it jealousy?
What is there to be jealous about? The unprofessional-ism?
3) Was it just plain hatred regardless of the other professionals who take motor sports seriously?
Weren't everyone there takes motorsports seriously? Except for some marshals though, who take souvenirs more seriously than ensuring the race runs smoothly.
Well, got to cut short to some questions that I would rather not waste time answering...:stupid:
4) Do you really think we're Kings?
What kind of stupid question is this? Well, not only this one, almost the whole bunch of questions are actually craps! Kinda form a mountain of trash in words...
Do you even know what you are saying or even before typing on the keyboard and form words that was generated from your fine brain? :stupid:
Never knew we got to be VIP before we can actually lodge a complain. One last thing before you forget, before we state our dissatisfaction on this thread, we did complained to SIC beforehand. This thread is mainly to let others know how the marshals reacted or behave during Super GT not to actually bashed all the marshals blindly.
Those photos were taken to show prove of what SOME of the marshals were doing, not because we are holding grudges against someone for nothing.
As long as you are hired as marshals, u do your job. Taking souvenirs or photos, I believe is not listed in your job scope or even instructed by SIC for you to freely do so..
Thank You for reading...grow up and take our critics positively. Learn from your mistakes and not dwell deeper in it...
If u really want souvenirs, photos and signatures, quit as marshals and pay for the pitwalk passes as the rest of us Super GT fans did...we appreciate the rest of the marshals who did their job well.
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wah, eye test or what....no comma, full stop and spacing....really challenging and salute to all that could reply ....
Minion, 1st we all are not marshall bashers. We do not hate all of them. I know many good marshalls out there including my cousin (who does not work in SIC events anymore bcoz his commitment with MAS), an old guy and some.
I dont understand why u are soooo damn angry n emo or touching over this matter. Did u read what we said?
i remembered in 2005, this one idiot marshall took 20 bags.. yes 20 BAGS of freebies from team TAKATA DOME !!! He even join us in the fighting for freebies bcoz he was greedy for more until a marshall fren smack him !!! n said "cukup la ko dah byk !" (enough u got many)
where were the marshalls when this happen? allowing it somemore.
if u remembered, there was an incident of how a crazy suicide fan can actually get into the tracks n asking rossi to hit him? where was the marshalls to stop this? i know after 5 or more bikes then marshalls came n beat him up... instead of waving yellow flag bcoz there is an emergency.
How about the accident where many debris are on the road n the marshalls did even care until some GT300 cars collided n lost control bcoz of debris?
how about the recent attitude of "this is my parent's circuit" (in Malay it is called ini litar mak bapak aku la, not refering i own the circuit) where one marshall rides his bike like rempit n nearly collided with me? cant he horn or say move at least? instead of zooming his bike !!
btw, here are SOME BAD MARSHALLS of recent motoGP !!!
*delete or edit below if not suitable
n how about this?? since u said they took SIC test n all this other test !! also instructor to do what below?
is this the way carrying a broken neck person? (yes, i know he died but people can give another story saying he died bcoz of our careless-ness, a picture says a hundred words)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/23/article-2052436-0E7EE96000000578-906_634x347.jpg
i hate the smug on the sunglasses guy, has no emotion at all, someone is dead plz control even u are happy to hold his bike.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/23/article-2052436-0E7EC30900000578-991_634x384.jpg
this one... really malu
Marshalls dropped Simoncelli from stretcher - YouTube
xrasa malu ke?? the world is watching !!!
if they have done a good job, we will not come out with this thread, we will be happy n cooperate with them.
p/s: ur way of commenting is very very familiar !!
I dont understand why u are soooo damn angry n emo or touching over this matter. Did u read what we said?
i remembered in 2005, this one idiot marshall took 20 bags.. yes 20 BAGS of freebies from team TAKATA DOME !!! He even join us in the fighting for freebies bcoz he was greedy for more until a marshall fren smack him !!! n said "cukup la ko dah byk !" (enough u got many)
where were the marshalls when this happen? allowing it somemore.
if u remembered, there was an incident of how a crazy suicide fan can actually get into the tracks n asking rossi to hit him? where was the marshalls to stop this? i know after 5 or more bikes then marshalls came n beat him up... instead of waving yellow flag bcoz there is an emergency.
How about the accident where many debris are on the road n the marshalls did even care until some GT300 cars collided n lost control bcoz of debris?
how about the recent attitude of "this is my parent's circuit" (in Malay it is called ini litar mak bapak aku la, not refering i own the circuit) where one marshall rides his bike like rempit n nearly collided with me? cant he horn or say move at least? instead of zooming his bike !!
btw, here are SOME BAD MARSHALLS of recent motoGP !!!
*delete or edit below if not suitable
n how about this?? since u said they took SIC test n all this other test !! also instructor to do what below?
is this the way carrying a broken neck person? (yes, i know he died but people can give another story saying he died bcoz of our careless-ness, a picture says a hundred words)
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/23/article-2052436-0E7EE96000000578-906_634x347.jpg
i hate the smug on the sunglasses guy, has no emotion at all, someone is dead plz control even u are happy to hold his bike.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/10/23/article-2052436-0E7EC30900000578-991_634x384.jpg
this one... really malu
Marshalls dropped Simoncelli from stretcher - YouTube
xrasa malu ke?? the world is watching !!!
if they have done a good job, we will not come out with this thread, we will be happy n cooperate with them.
p/s: ur way of commenting is very very familiar !!
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no la.. i mean the ini mak bapak saya punya attitude..
when a guy does something bad, we said "apa ingat ini mak bapak awk punya ke??" (what u think this is ur parent's ... ??)
thanx Izso got a joke while being serious in this thread...
of course la.. that marshall who want to bang me thinks this is like his parent's circuit.. go n rempit n nearly hit us.. what do u expect? he should be slow since there are many people walking there.. even VIP's like JP Chin also slowdown.
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Minion
Junior Member
Again, allow me to educate you. I tried my best to be nice and explained how it is for marshals out there but since you f*d up morons just can't get it in your heads, i'll start getting nasty at level 1. Here goes: You're ignorant! Don't even attempt to think that what you're saying to me is right. There's a thick big reason why SIC do not, I REPEAT DO NOT take your complain on this issue as something very urgent and need action to be taken immediately. The reason is simple. You people who complain on this issue need your heads checked! What are you? Answer it loud to me. I ask again, what-are-you? The media group? The spectators? The team crew? The driver? Come on. Throw it out to me. Straight! I gave you a whole length of questions but there's something you people aren't really happy about but you're not saying it. One of you just skipped the main questions i've lashed out and pretended like it made no difference. None of those questions went off topic. They were meant to reveal the demons and make you feel as humble as the marshals were. Smug faces of marshals, who paid & who didn't to get to the souvenirs, not doing their jobs, ABOUT THE MARSHALS NOT DOING THEIR JOBS?? Do you even know what their jobs are? If you do, i really really want to know who & what you are. I gave you the color codes of the marshals but as you're pretending to be professionals and "Dont give a damn" (as the 'tidak apa' attitude too, right?), you're not really being the pros by ignoring the facts i've stated. You tell me the marshals have grabbed 20 bags of goodies... can you tell me which marshals? I gave you the facts, now you tell me if you have read what i've stated above completely by answering me what type of marshals did that! If you answer me right, i'll take your complains seriously as you are not targetting specific people for your own f*d up benefits! If you don't answer me right, you can take that word 'emo' and shove it up where the sun don't shine on you. (Emo indeed! As though that's some special word for something special when every human being already has it!) If you don't understand quack about what i said on the exam, it does not concern you at all because i'm not here to entertain your ignorances over it. If you know about or taken the exam yourself, slap yourself silly for being here as one of the complainants. On Simoncelli's death and on blaming the marshals..... there you go again... blaming the marshals. AGAIN, LOOK AT THE COLOUR CODES AND ANSWER ME WHICH MARSHAL KILLED HIM. Do you know for sure that it was the marshals that dropped him that had caused his death based on the video? JEEEEEEEZZZZZ! You're there squeaking like rats because marshals are doing this, doing that and then bashing them with these ridiculous accusations... you don't even know who and what type of marshals they really are in the 1st place. What are you now? Judge, jury and f*d up executioner already. Let me tell you this to save you your F*D UP EMBARRASING FACES FROM SHOWING that the ones who dropped Simoncelli ... weren't our race marshals. They were the paramedics from the Angkatan Tentera Medical Centre. Even Paulo Simoncelli, his father had addressed in his statement in the media that it was no fault of the marshals from the video he saw of the bungle.
So, who-tf are you to keep on with the accusations? Clear your red faces quick before i slap your faces silly again because i'll be out with more FACTS than you f*rs can come out with, in the timebeing. Meantime, don't be fine idiots attempting to educate me that you don't need to know the colour codes because if you can't tell the difference of the marshals who were doing wrong, again, ignorance is your game but no fool would attempt to look upon your useless grouses. Come out with your facts. (and the photos are just photos of marshals taking shots or posing with the grid girls. So, what?) Throw out the truth of your complains directly with the facts i've stated and see if i could work out with a foundation to your complain such as where lies the mistake of the marshals concerned, who were they, what's it to you, why, how and when it just had to happen. Until then, don't colourize the words to differentiate my comments against yours. If you're directing your comments to me, beautiful font colours don't make it any beautiful to me. If you're replying with slices of my comments, please just put my comments in brackets. That'll do simple, nice and dandy. Please do not assume that i'm protecting the marshals only. I'm just here to weed out the true problem. The society in the whole! Lastly but not least, you must have had headaches attempting to absorb the logic of my words in my comments because .... to educate the bunch of fools here who think they know better, i had to test their level of mentality over this no-issue. It may seem jumbled but it is not if you pay attention to the questions i posed and have the initiative to understand that the race marshals are not 'employed' under SIC. Therefore you simply have no right to bash the marshals up and down with this issue. They're all volunteers and they aren't afraid to be removed or banned from events if such a situation has to happen to them. However, that has happened and will happen if the right approach is done, less ever was a problem where a marshal had to face with a spectator's or racing team's or a VIP's complain that a marshal is removed. It all comes from the race control that each movement of the marshal during either one's duty is followed and judged. If a marshal has not performed the duty as accordingly, they may receive the kick, ordered 1st by the Race Director from race control and then through their respective chiefs. SIC has no real powers over the volunteers. They only ensure that the facilities, materials, the equipment, the meals, the wages, the instructions, credibility and support vice versa is given to the marshals to perform their duties. (Yeah, but you need to make your complains however, right? So, go to SIC with the right info or yeah, scold the marshal directly!) Anyone can be a marshal but it's up to you if you have the interest, the initiative and the commitment to move up the ladder but there's no retirement benefit plan for you. So, if you're against marshals taking snapshots 'while on duty' as YOU say, there'll be a lot of questions posed onto you again 1st. It's not a counter attack but mainly questions if there should be real reasonable doubt that immediate action should be taken.
See, there must be enjoyment to any job you do. For e.g, if you work at KFC and say it's your duty to serve and not eat any of the food there, what's the deal of you not knowing the good and bad of the food you serve to your customers? If you want to be a manager of a football team but never got involved with football in all aspects in your life, WTF??! Where're you headed to then? It's all part of the parcel, people. Don't be hypocrites. If you see all the other comments from the likes of yours, you stated about the behaviour of the marshals who went for the souvenirs. Well, did you see the behaviour of the people who were there at the pitwalkabout yourselves who cared nothing for their children's and their own safety? Did you see the behaviour of the racing teams when they disappointed the lot who paid and showed up to see them only to see their pit shutters closed? Did you see the behaviour of the grand stand spectators who made a mess of the track when the MotoGP race was cancelled when they didn't have the patience for the reason behind it in the 1st place? Did you see the behaviour of the track invaders who disrupted the victory lap of the riders for the spectators? Did you see the behaviour of the marshals who stood out wet in the rain for the race event to still go on? Did you see the behaviour of the marshals who were basking under the freaking hot sun from morning to evening and on some events till night and even overnight on standby, ready and waiting for the show to keep running just for you spectators? Did you see the behaviour of the photographers who prefer to shoot the grid girls in the most provocative ways than the marshals or spectators could even ask for? Have you ever witnessed any of our race events being disrupted, cancelled or stopped due to our marshals? Do you know that marshals are human beings and they need time to relax too? You just need to see that when you weigh the balance of the damages caused, it weighs really almost to nothing with this no-issue except maybe it has damaged more of your own ego. Still, if there are true serious issues that involves marshals onto others, i'm sure SIC will see to it that action will be made pending upon the right info the complainant has given to them. Apart from that, as you would say 'not bashing all the marshals but just the bad ones' (although it should not have happened, there's this thing called leniency?), marshals do have the tendency to do some 'customer service' when it is not their duty at all because there's a sense of belonging to it but this sense is twisted and contorted made to look like they were SIC's belonging by other people that eventually they end up at the wrong place. This here is my contribution to correct that thought from people who think otherwise. If you don't know them well, you will hurt them by your wrong judgements and thus hurt your own interests as well. So, learn to know them well despite the wrongs.
That brings my nasty level 1 to 0 for now. End.
So, who-tf are you to keep on with the accusations? Clear your red faces quick before i slap your faces silly again because i'll be out with more FACTS than you f*rs can come out with, in the timebeing. Meantime, don't be fine idiots attempting to educate me that you don't need to know the colour codes because if you can't tell the difference of the marshals who were doing wrong, again, ignorance is your game but no fool would attempt to look upon your useless grouses. Come out with your facts. (and the photos are just photos of marshals taking shots or posing with the grid girls. So, what?) Throw out the truth of your complains directly with the facts i've stated and see if i could work out with a foundation to your complain such as where lies the mistake of the marshals concerned, who were they, what's it to you, why, how and when it just had to happen. Until then, don't colourize the words to differentiate my comments against yours. If you're directing your comments to me, beautiful font colours don't make it any beautiful to me. If you're replying with slices of my comments, please just put my comments in brackets. That'll do simple, nice and dandy. Please do not assume that i'm protecting the marshals only. I'm just here to weed out the true problem. The society in the whole! Lastly but not least, you must have had headaches attempting to absorb the logic of my words in my comments because .... to educate the bunch of fools here who think they know better, i had to test their level of mentality over this no-issue. It may seem jumbled but it is not if you pay attention to the questions i posed and have the initiative to understand that the race marshals are not 'employed' under SIC. Therefore you simply have no right to bash the marshals up and down with this issue. They're all volunteers and they aren't afraid to be removed or banned from events if such a situation has to happen to them. However, that has happened and will happen if the right approach is done, less ever was a problem where a marshal had to face with a spectator's or racing team's or a VIP's complain that a marshal is removed. It all comes from the race control that each movement of the marshal during either one's duty is followed and judged. If a marshal has not performed the duty as accordingly, they may receive the kick, ordered 1st by the Race Director from race control and then through their respective chiefs. SIC has no real powers over the volunteers. They only ensure that the facilities, materials, the equipment, the meals, the wages, the instructions, credibility and support vice versa is given to the marshals to perform their duties. (Yeah, but you need to make your complains however, right? So, go to SIC with the right info or yeah, scold the marshal directly!) Anyone can be a marshal but it's up to you if you have the interest, the initiative and the commitment to move up the ladder but there's no retirement benefit plan for you. So, if you're against marshals taking snapshots 'while on duty' as YOU say, there'll be a lot of questions posed onto you again 1st. It's not a counter attack but mainly questions if there should be real reasonable doubt that immediate action should be taken.
See, there must be enjoyment to any job you do. For e.g, if you work at KFC and say it's your duty to serve and not eat any of the food there, what's the deal of you not knowing the good and bad of the food you serve to your customers? If you want to be a manager of a football team but never got involved with football in all aspects in your life, WTF??! Where're you headed to then? It's all part of the parcel, people. Don't be hypocrites. If you see all the other comments from the likes of yours, you stated about the behaviour of the marshals who went for the souvenirs. Well, did you see the behaviour of the people who were there at the pitwalkabout yourselves who cared nothing for their children's and their own safety? Did you see the behaviour of the racing teams when they disappointed the lot who paid and showed up to see them only to see their pit shutters closed? Did you see the behaviour of the grand stand spectators who made a mess of the track when the MotoGP race was cancelled when they didn't have the patience for the reason behind it in the 1st place? Did you see the behaviour of the track invaders who disrupted the victory lap of the riders for the spectators? Did you see the behaviour of the marshals who stood out wet in the rain for the race event to still go on? Did you see the behaviour of the marshals who were basking under the freaking hot sun from morning to evening and on some events till night and even overnight on standby, ready and waiting for the show to keep running just for you spectators? Did you see the behaviour of the photographers who prefer to shoot the grid girls in the most provocative ways than the marshals or spectators could even ask for? Have you ever witnessed any of our race events being disrupted, cancelled or stopped due to our marshals? Do you know that marshals are human beings and they need time to relax too? You just need to see that when you weigh the balance of the damages caused, it weighs really almost to nothing with this no-issue except maybe it has damaged more of your own ego. Still, if there are true serious issues that involves marshals onto others, i'm sure SIC will see to it that action will be made pending upon the right info the complainant has given to them. Apart from that, as you would say 'not bashing all the marshals but just the bad ones' (although it should not have happened, there's this thing called leniency?), marshals do have the tendency to do some 'customer service' when it is not their duty at all because there's a sense of belonging to it but this sense is twisted and contorted made to look like they were SIC's belonging by other people that eventually they end up at the wrong place. This here is my contribution to correct that thought from people who think otherwise. If you don't know them well, you will hurt them by your wrong judgements and thus hurt your own interests as well. So, learn to know them well despite the wrongs.
That brings my nasty level 1 to 0 for now. End.
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2008
- Messages
- 20,681
- Points
- 1,713
Hmm...lets us all level up our level of nastiness to 1 as well...
So you're basically saying what you had attempted to tell us is right and
what we are trying to tell you is wrong? Wow...Now I understand your
question about whether we think you guys are the Kings, because
everyone is wrong and you are right.
Okay, we have time and time answered you and you still ask the same old
F*d up questions? So let me answer it STRAIGHT to your F*d up face
and hopefully it could penetrate through your thick skull for your F*d up
brain to absorb what we said.
You people who complain on this issue need your heads checked!
What are you? Answer it loud to me. I ask again, what-are-you? The media group?
The spectators? The team crew? The driver? Come on. Throw it out to me. Straight!
I gave you a whole length of questions but there's something you people aren't really
happy about but you're not saying it.
Who are we? Seriously? We are the spectators for sure and we were
the customers for the event on that day. About lodging a complain,
DO WE NEED TO BE A F*king VIP / Media or the Team Crew
or even being the Prime Minister to actually lodge a complain!?
(repeated again)
Is about time for you to tell us Who The F*d are you? Who is trying
to defend your pride and glory as though you are one of the Marshals
or even the Owner of SIC? Since as if you know bloody well that our
complaints will not be taken seriously by SIC, tell us about it.
You seriously need to some brain check as what we had been telling you
doesn't seems to be able to get into your head since you are being
biased and siding all the marshals from the start. Time to be neutral
and analyze what is wrong instead.
Like why do we SPECTATORS/CUSTOMERS are complaining? We are
not VIP/Datuks but we have the right to complain and we are the one
who had kept supporting Super GT event from day 1 to keep it alive
till today. I'm speaking for all Super GT fans here. Not just a few here.
If they were being ignorant like you, then Super GT will slowly disappear because
the spectators were not happy with how the event was handled/organised.
So, is simple, IF the spectators are not happy, will they ever come back again
for the event on the following year? Ever thought of that?
One of you just skipped the main questions i've lashed out and
pretended like it made no difference. None of those questions went off topic. They
were meant to reveal the demons and make you feel as humble as the marshals were.
Smug faces of marshals, who paid & who didn't to get to the souvenirs, not doing their
jobs, ABOUT THE MARSHALS NOT DOING THEIR JOBS?? Do you even know what their
jobs are? If you do, i really really want to know who & what you are. I gave you the
color codes of the marshals but as you're pretending to be professionals and "Dont give
a damn" (as the 'tidak apa' attitude too, right?), you're not really being the pros by
ignoring the facts i've stated.
Okay, I wouldn't want to put my level as low as you anymore,
so nasty level down to 0.
If any of us skipped a main question of yours, state out the name of that
person instead. We are more than happy to knock some sense into you.
You can't blame us, if any of us missed out a question or two from you, since
you love stacking all the words together which would actually be hard to
read with NO SPACINGS at all. Really gave us a headache trying very
hard to read and replying at the same time.
Please reply like as a proper essay like what you had written in your
exams with Spacings and etcs. Unless it is written otherwise.
Replies in colours are not meant to decorate the whole comment
like I got nothing better to do. Is to differentiate which replies
I'm replying and for the readers to read it easily instead of replying
like yours.
Do we even know what their(marshals) jobs are? We do, as you stated before.
Like you said, you marshals are there to ensure the race and everything
runs smoothly and according to plan. Making sure no one gets hurt
and etcs.
So, tell us more what are their job are as marshals, I'll see if collecting
souvenirs, freebies or taking shots of the girls are one of the jobs listed.
See, there must be enjoyment to any job you do. For e.g, if you
work at KFC and say it's your duty to serve and not eat any of the food there, what's
the deal of you not knowing the good and bad of the food you serve to your customers?
If you want to be a manager of a football team but never got involved with football in
all aspects in your life, WTF??! Where're you headed to then? It's all part of the parcel,
people. Don't be hypocrites.
We are not being hypocrites. You got a point but KFC staffs are entitled to their
meals in the restaurant itself.
Is part of the whole parcel like you said BUT they were told that those are their
benefits as KFC Staffs. So, frankly, were the marshals entitled to Souvenirs/Freebies officially? Yes? No?
If yes, then the marshals should be given the souvenirs/freebies separately and
not needed to fight for freebies among the spectators during the pitwalk. Which
would make everything more organise or I would say civilized.
Then both sides are happy. This should be the way.
They're all volunteers and they aren't afraid to be removed or banned
from events if such a situation has to happen to them. However, that has happened and
will happen if the right approach is done, less ever was a problem where a marshal had
to face with a spectator's or racing team's or a VIP's complain that a marshal is removed.
It all comes from the race control that each movement of the marshal during either one's
duty is followed and judged. If a marshal has not performed the duty as accordingly, they
may receive the kick, ordered 1st by the Race Director from race control and then through
their respective chiefs. SIC has no real powers over the volunteers.
No wonder the Marshals were out of control. Since they are not afraid of
being removed or banned. Which is why it was a mess all along. That is
what we are talking about...out of control. If you are one who can make
decisions, then take our complaints seriously. We do not bash for no reasons.
Be it we are VIP or not, we are still the customers/spectators who paid to enjoy
a great event such as Super GT. Take our critics and analyze with the company.
Find out the reason why such complaints were raised in the first place.
Is not that we enjoy complaining without proper reasons. JPM Motorsports would
look into it and we are hoping for a better Super GT next year under JPM Motorsports.
1st thing to solved is the Marshals issue on needing to fight for freebies with
the spectators. Is best the Marshals get the freebies separately later on that
day by passing it to them. That way, the Marshals are happy and the spectators
are happy.
What you stated is not completely wrong, but you have to be neutral and take
complaints seriously if you are in the position to make the call.
That's all from me now. We are all grown ups, no need to be uncivilized in replies.
If you want others to respect you, learn how to respect others.
How you respond is how others will respond to you.
So you're basically saying what you had attempted to tell us is right and
what we are trying to tell you is wrong? Wow...Now I understand your
question about whether we think you guys are the Kings, because
everyone is wrong and you are right.
Okay, we have time and time answered you and you still ask the same old
F*d up questions? So let me answer it STRAIGHT to your F*d up face
and hopefully it could penetrate through your thick skull for your F*d up
brain to absorb what we said.
You people who complain on this issue need your heads checked!
What are you? Answer it loud to me. I ask again, what-are-you? The media group?
The spectators? The team crew? The driver? Come on. Throw it out to me. Straight!
I gave you a whole length of questions but there's something you people aren't really
happy about but you're not saying it.
Who are we? Seriously? We are the spectators for sure and we were
the customers for the event on that day. About lodging a complain,
DO WE NEED TO BE A F*king VIP / Media or the Team Crew
or even being the Prime Minister to actually lodge a complain!?
(repeated again)
Is about time for you to tell us Who The F*d are you? Who is trying
to defend your pride and glory as though you are one of the Marshals
or even the Owner of SIC? Since as if you know bloody well that our
complaints will not be taken seriously by SIC, tell us about it.
You seriously need to some brain check as what we had been telling you
doesn't seems to be able to get into your head since you are being
biased and siding all the marshals from the start. Time to be neutral
and analyze what is wrong instead.
Like why do we SPECTATORS/CUSTOMERS are complaining? We are
not VIP/Datuks but we have the right to complain and we are the one
who had kept supporting Super GT event from day 1 to keep it alive
till today. I'm speaking for all Super GT fans here. Not just a few here.
If they were being ignorant like you, then Super GT will slowly disappear because
the spectators were not happy with how the event was handled/organised.
So, is simple, IF the spectators are not happy, will they ever come back again
for the event on the following year? Ever thought of that?
One of you just skipped the main questions i've lashed out and
pretended like it made no difference. None of those questions went off topic. They
were meant to reveal the demons and make you feel as humble as the marshals were.
Smug faces of marshals, who paid & who didn't to get to the souvenirs, not doing their
jobs, ABOUT THE MARSHALS NOT DOING THEIR JOBS?? Do you even know what their
jobs are? If you do, i really really want to know who & what you are. I gave you the
color codes of the marshals but as you're pretending to be professionals and "Dont give
a damn" (as the 'tidak apa' attitude too, right?), you're not really being the pros by
ignoring the facts i've stated.
Okay, I wouldn't want to put my level as low as you anymore,
so nasty level down to 0.
If any of us skipped a main question of yours, state out the name of that
person instead. We are more than happy to knock some sense into you.
You can't blame us, if any of us missed out a question or two from you, since
you love stacking all the words together which would actually be hard to
read with NO SPACINGS at all. Really gave us a headache trying very
hard to read and replying at the same time.
Please reply like as a proper essay like what you had written in your
exams with Spacings and etcs. Unless it is written otherwise.
Replies in colours are not meant to decorate the whole comment
like I got nothing better to do. Is to differentiate which replies
I'm replying and for the readers to read it easily instead of replying
like yours.
Do we even know what their(marshals) jobs are? We do, as you stated before.
Like you said, you marshals are there to ensure the race and everything
runs smoothly and according to plan. Making sure no one gets hurt
and etcs.
So, tell us more what are their job are as marshals, I'll see if collecting
souvenirs, freebies or taking shots of the girls are one of the jobs listed.
See, there must be enjoyment to any job you do. For e.g, if you
work at KFC and say it's your duty to serve and not eat any of the food there, what's
the deal of you not knowing the good and bad of the food you serve to your customers?
If you want to be a manager of a football team but never got involved with football in
all aspects in your life, WTF??! Where're you headed to then? It's all part of the parcel,
people. Don't be hypocrites.
We are not being hypocrites. You got a point but KFC staffs are entitled to their
meals in the restaurant itself.
Is part of the whole parcel like you said BUT they were told that those are their
benefits as KFC Staffs. So, frankly, were the marshals entitled to Souvenirs/Freebies officially? Yes? No?
If yes, then the marshals should be given the souvenirs/freebies separately and
not needed to fight for freebies among the spectators during the pitwalk. Which
would make everything more organise or I would say civilized.
Then both sides are happy. This should be the way.
They're all volunteers and they aren't afraid to be removed or banned
from events if such a situation has to happen to them. However, that has happened and
will happen if the right approach is done, less ever was a problem where a marshal had
to face with a spectator's or racing team's or a VIP's complain that a marshal is removed.
It all comes from the race control that each movement of the marshal during either one's
duty is followed and judged. If a marshal has not performed the duty as accordingly, they
may receive the kick, ordered 1st by the Race Director from race control and then through
their respective chiefs. SIC has no real powers over the volunteers.
No wonder the Marshals were out of control. Since they are not afraid of
being removed or banned. Which is why it was a mess all along. That is
what we are talking about...out of control. If you are one who can make
decisions, then take our complaints seriously. We do not bash for no reasons.
Be it we are VIP or not, we are still the customers/spectators who paid to enjoy
a great event such as Super GT. Take our critics and analyze with the company.
Find out the reason why such complaints were raised in the first place.
Is not that we enjoy complaining without proper reasons. JPM Motorsports would
look into it and we are hoping for a better Super GT next year under JPM Motorsports.
1st thing to solved is the Marshals issue on needing to fight for freebies with
the spectators. Is best the Marshals get the freebies separately later on that
day by passing it to them. That way, the Marshals are happy and the spectators
are happy.
What you stated is not completely wrong, but you have to be neutral and take
complaints seriously if you are in the position to make the call.
That's all from me now. We are all grown ups, no need to be uncivilized in replies.
If you want others to respect you, learn how to respect others.
How you respond is how others will respond to you.
Last edited:
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