how to improve the performance of 4G13 stock engine

[LimauKanker]

kekeke...

back to topic... suspension...

1. pro r adjustable, never heard, no reviews, rm790
2. d2 adjustable, dunno fake or original, rm1000

found 1 local brand, Ftuned RM2k... kekekeke...

some forumers keeping hnr coil, my sexperience with hnr back to my wajunk days, these sport coil even combo with short stroke dampers, the dampers itself not lasting.

maybe for this islala, just go for proride performance + 4flex coil... and see how it goes...

1. no idea
2. bad product, bad damping, just bad

my 2 cents, dont skimp on suspension, Ftuned/Fawster at least, both of them used to be rebranded from the same manufacturer with their own valving specs. the manufacturer that manufacture the shocks are Claws, local company as well. But recently Ftuned have their own manufacture IINM, and their price has since dropped but also quality is a little bit questionable (in the early batch). but you can try out their products. i am using it the last batch of claws rebranded ftuned and it is performing pretty good.

do you mind showing what do you get for 2k from ftuned? it is a bit on the cheap side tho

forget about anything below 1k, for alternative, you can try looking for HWL adjustable, they are cheap and cheerful, pretty decent quality as well.

If you kena 4D, go straight for RDS, non adjustable but got digressive damping valve - floating around 4k+-. If you kena 1st price, can look at RDS 1 way/3way, those are 5 figures.

Edit:
Sad truth about adjustable is you will never get good ride until you spend your first born child soul into it. sadly but true, our currency is really shit and to buy/order real good shocks components.

put that simple, modifying car is a compromise, want power, lose fc, want good ride, lose handling; but then again handling is a very wide spectrum, some people drive well with hard setup, some people drive well with soft setup, it is just different driving style.

i think the best way around it is just proride +4flex, which is also the cheapest solution, but dont expect any comfort out of it as it might bottoms up if you lowered it too much. at least the absorber absorb and the springs damp.

 

[firezy]

limau,

ftuned quoted me hi-low adjustable, 3-4 weeks waiting after deposit paid. rm1950 + rm150 installation fees.

hi-low + soft-hard adjustable, rm3100 not yet installation.

if I have time this weekend, will pop up and pay them a visit. in the old days, I tried hnr + apm, eibach + koni, etc. now on tein edfc, was almost going to kw v3, hence, I concluded, if want to do, straight 1 package adjustable. if rojak, usually the dampers life will shorten which in fact already a short stroke... kekeke...

what you mentioned is hard truth... very less people accepted it. I have a 300whp, more add on the ride bcome less enjoyable (sourgrape statement bcos the real truth is no money to rebuilt with forged internal, big tebu, retuning, etc)

 

[parakey]

hi-low + soft-hard adjustable, rm3100 not yet installation.

More expensive than Wira?

 

[Izso]

limau,

ftuned quoted me hi-low adjustable, 3-4 weeks waiting after deposit paid. rm1950 + rm150 installation fees.

hi-low + soft-hard adjustable, rm3100 not yet installation.

if I have time this weekend, will pop up and pay them a visit. in the old days, I tried hnr + apm, eibach + koni, etc. now on tein edfc, was almost going to kw v3, hence, I concluded, if want to do, straight 1 package adjustable. if rojak, usually the dampers life will shorten which in fact already a short stroke... kekeke...

what you mentioned is hard truth... very less people accepted it. I have a 300whp, more add on the ride bcome less enjoyable (sourgrape statement bcos the real truth is no money to rebuilt with forged internal, big tebu, retuning, etc)

How did you try Koni + eibach and not like that? Which Koni did you use?

 

[firezy]

Para,
I don’t know what’s wira pricing. But for rm3.1, surely no go.

Izso,
What u mean not like that? These experiments are basis wajunk that was many years back, say 10-14 years back? Can’t remember which Koni that I put in.

Hnr + apm n eibach + Koni, both have their own pro n con.

Well even adjustable is not everything too. My tein been serviced once, n not cheap, came out to be better than brand new... whahahah...

 

[Izso]

Para,
I don’t know what’s wira pricing. But for rm3.1, surely no go.

Izso,
What u mean not like that? These experiments are basis wajunk that was many years back, say 10-14 years back? Can’t remember which Koni that I put in.

Hnr + apm n eibach + Koni, both have their own pro n con.

Well even adjustable is not everything too. My tein been serviced once, n not cheap, came out to be better than brand new... whahahah...

no I mean did you like the koni+eibach combi? I love that setup especially if it's the Koni FSD + Eibach. I'd buy this over coilover setup anyday!

 

[firezy]

eibach + koni for me yes, better than hnr + apm and for a short period, I was on Monroe too with hnr.

back then plenty of time for trial and error. but as I said combi of these rojak... the dampers itself not lasting. therefore, I demoded and back to oem before I sold it off.

I'm inclined over ftuned, but let's see... last Wed tak kena 4d, let's see this weekend... whahahahah...

btw now garu garu itchibawa a set of evo 3, R15, 4x114.3, ET46 enkei rim... dem... really pening...

 

[firezy]

arrhhh... been busy with work lately...

nevertheless the purchases on off going on but no time to install. whahahahha...

1. fully port polish 4g15 head + radius cut vavles (inlet)
2. 1.6 waja modded disc brakes to compliment the double layer servo, the rear, still drum not touching... I hope it is really PNP
3. ST flywheel 8", virgin not skimming yet...

my god... all these still out there... been looking for suspension yet not install any... saw HWL... price reasonable for high/low setup.

dem tempted with 272 cam from matspeed...

btw, my weber not even in... off late been running on islala... straight road really bau asap from many cars... emo imbalance... kekekeke...

cheers...

 

[firezy]

good morning.

just wonder anyone here know what's the block spec of the magma/orion 8v vs the magma megavalve 12v?

the reason why i'm asking this, there are few chaps that I met up saying that if were to play with the 4g15 to max out the engine

1. block of the 8v orion/magma are much thicker vs the later 12v version, but I tried to googled online don't get anything out of that. this is basis the pomen and modder says.
2. original 4G15 12v are 82mm stroke + 75.5mm bore, stroke it up to the 4G18 spec will be 87.3mm stroke + 76mm bore, within the rules of bore 0.5-1mm from original should be doing ok, so if wanted more than 1mm bore, modders has said that go get the 4G15 8v orion/magma block which can tahan up to 77mm bore (high comp piston). *of course this is on the safe side to say that 8v block by virtue are thicker hence more tahanable vs the 12v block.

now to the camshaft story, put it this way the regrind cam should be grind off the base circle (I dunno, basis my logic, is thinning the base circle in order to get the desire degree tilt, but it cannot lift higher because simply cannot add on steel at the lobe pointers area or nose, whatever u called it), so I still don't get it how these regrind cams saying that it able to LIFT to certain mm and when grind off the base circle, is like the batang bcome thinner.

not sure any OLD modders able to answer to my queries since this 4G15 has been around for almost 3 decades... thank you in advanced.

 

[LimauKanker]

good morning.

just wonder anyone here know what's the block spec of the magma/orion 8v vs the magma megavalve 12v?

the reason why i'm asking this, there are few chaps that I met up saying that if were to play with the 4g15 to max out the engine

1. block of the 8v orion/magma are much thicker vs the later 12v version, but I tried to googled online don't get anything out of that. this is basis the pomen and modder says.
2. original 4G15 12v are 82mm stroke + 75.5mm bore, stroke it up to the 4G18 spec will be 87.3mm stroke + 76mm bore, within the rules of bore 0.5-1mm from original should be doing ok, so if wanted more than 1mm bore, modders has said that go get the 4G15 8v orion/magma block which can tahan up to 77mm bore (high comp piston). *of course this is on the safe side to say that 8v block by virtue are thicker hence more tahanable vs the 12v block.

now to the camshaft story, put it this way the regrind cam should be grind off the base circle (I dunno, basis my logic, is thinning the base circle in order to get the desire degree tilt, but it cannot lift higher because simply cannot add on steel at the lobe pointers area or nose, whatever u called it), so I still don't get it how these regrind cams saying that it able to LIFT to certain mm and when grind off the base circle, is like the batang bcome thinner.

not sure any OLD modders able to answer to my queries since this 4G15 has been around for almost 3 decades... thank you in advanced.

1. The 8v block are thicker. This is kind of a myth, some say it is thicker some say it is more durable. but i have many friend stroke the 12v ok jer, nothing happened. What's interesting is the difference of 8v and 12v head.

2. 76.5mm max bore (1mm oversize) is fine on the 12v block, no worries. your worries come to piston choice. campro/vitara/proton oversize for different dome design, valve pocket, etc.

3. For cams, i'd say go search for Squirt Parts. Owner of the company was one of the guy who advice and started the whole 4Gseries matspeed regrind cam. And now the Squirt Parts cams are one of the most refine and powerful cam. Dont have to worry about lift, grind, etc.

I'd think find a 1st gen waja crank, oversize stock piston, lighten 8" flywheel, weber tuning, extractor and 2" exhaust on your car shall give people a really good run.

 

[firezy]

limau,

1. I bet so, but look at the bright side of the 8v block been produced in late 80 to early 90, if putting the chronology in order, these block should be more durable in the sense of the material been using and the generation that producing it.

2. plenty in the market for 76-77mm piston, but whether the pin hole fit to the oem conrod will be another thing. do u know any of those high comp piston in range of the 76mm? flat head piss are good for tebu, dome head are the high comp piss.

3. squirt cam? ok will look for it, in fact I emailed tighe cam in OZ, quoted AUD550 excluding shipping.
https://tighecams.com.au/cars.htm
the 602b and 112c model, these 2 should be the most compatible for the 4g1x series in term of road usage. the 112c with dcnf weber might need few rounds of tuning to get the right rhythm. the 602b should be just pnp off it goes.

ya, you brought up a good point, the waja crank, I see lots of them... how to define the 1st gen waja crank?

 

[LimauKanker]

limau,

1. I bet so, but look at the bright side of the 8v block been produced in late 80 to early 90, if putting the chronology in order, these block should be more durable in the sense of the material been using and the generation that producing it.

2. plenty in the market for 76-77mm piston, but whether the pin hole fit to the oem conrod will be another thing. do u know any of those high comp piston in range of the 76mm? flat head piss are good for tebu, dome head are the high comp piss.

3. squirt cam? ok will look for it, in fact I emailed tighe cam in OZ, quoted AUD550 excluding shipping.
https://tighecams.com.au/cars.htm
the 602b and 112c model, these 2 should be the most compatible for the 4g1x series in term of road usage. the 112c with dcnf weber might need few rounds of tuning to get the right rhythm. the 602b should be just pnp off it goes.

ya, you brought up a good point, the waja crank, I see lots of them... how to define the 1st gen waja crank?

1. also less refine manufacture cast marks, rougher finishing. thus more buffer and not really good tolerances throughout.

2. BLM piston is high compression, or you can got CFE piston (lower wrist pin position), only have to use thicker gasket to lower down compression.

3. I am not sure about the cam, but RM800 vs 550AUD, i think we got a winner there,

1st gen waja crank iinm the flywheel bolt is different or something, cant remember already. but there are two types of 4G18 waja crank on the market. both looks totally the same, only the end cap is different.

 

[firezy]

limau,

u know what? I'm so obsessed with the camshaft, n I forgot it is SQUIRT dem... when I googled, it came out those xxx related and I'm in office.

whahahahaha...

 

[sanekit]

it's Squirt Auto Parts. you can find him on mudah -
https://mudah.my/squirt-auto-parts

 

[firezy]

hi sanekit,

yup, contacted. his product current at the billet cam at 288 deg, did not speak much on the technicality of it. but basically billet vs cast steel, can google it which is stronger.

my point wanted to ask about the lifting on regrind, the respond was lukewarm. so... I guess basically it is about the degree of tilting. unless whole head + rocker arm, etc send in, regrind cam + a little tweaking on the rest parts that inside the head, otherwise I don't see anywhere the regrind cam can LIFT. *just solely my personal opinion... pls don't bom me.

 

[LimauKanker]

hi sanekit,

yup, contacted. his product current at the billet cam at 288 deg, did not speak much on the technicality of it. but basically billet vs cast steel, can google it which is stronger.

my point wanted to ask about the lifting on regrind, the respond was lukewarm. so... I guess basically it is about the degree of tilting. unless whole head + rocker arm, etc send in, regrind cam + a little tweaking on the rest parts that inside the head, otherwise I don't see anywhere the regrind cam can LIFT. *just solely my personal opinion... pls don't bom me.

nope, you just have to sacrifice. can try to shim and compensate back from tappet adjustment la.

 

[sanekit]

hi sanekit,

yup, contacted. his product current at the billet cam at 288 deg, did not speak much on the technicality of it. but basically billet vs cast steel, can google it which is stronger.

my point wanted to ask about the lifting on regrind, the respond was lukewarm. so... I guess basically it is about the degree of tilting. unless whole head + rocker arm, etc send in, regrind cam + a little tweaking on the rest parts that inside the head, otherwise I don't see anywhere the regrind cam can LIFT. *just solely my personal opinion... pls don't bom me.

from what i read, to add lift on a camshaft, you grind down the radius of the base circle of the lobe to effectively give more lift without adding metal. the non-lobe part is ground away making the difference between highest part of the lobe and the lowest part of the base circle a greater distance. If you grind away enough of the base circle, you can flatten the top of the lobe and still increase the lift while changing the duration profile substantially.

so yes, the lift does increase if u grind the base circle. and you'll need to adjust your lifters or shim to compensate back like what @LimauKanker said.

 

[firezy]

found
1. an orion year 1985, 1.5 engine. the conrod 2mm and stud thicker than 4g18 conrod n 4g13 stud, and the stud is Allen key vs 4g13 normal bolt.
2. 77mm piston non high compression, 19mm piston pin, review orion conrod n block to fit.
3. 320deg cam shaft + cam pulley
4. Dcnf 40 sitting on japan carb intake manifold bcos the local carb intake manifold too big the base.

I hope by this month end can get it fix n on road...

Hahahha....

 

[firezy]

 

[firezy]