crower cam

[le power]

i just installed this item into my b16a... crower cam type 3(305),toda valve spring,brian crower retainer,e-managed blue colour(installed at ksp sunway),mugen 4-1 extractor,exzos done by akop(usj..now at sunway),iridium plug,ngk power cable,1.8 itr manifold,injector b16a....ek9 gearbox..just change to 4.785.., os giken twin plate and flywheel(bought at ss racing)...power timing belt,works adjustable cam pully....aerospeed fuel regulator....no port and polish..stock piston b16a..dyno at gt auto sunway result only get 167hp..vtec open at 6200rpm...is it ok or not...?WHY cannot go 2++hp?just curious..:hmmmm:...to all the sifu and otai vtec please give me comment.

 

[J101]

dont be dissapointed. what you have probably is half-way towards the 200whp goal. if money is not a problem i think there are more things u need to buy to achieve this. with a 1.6 and emanage..its a long way to go.

keep us updated by the way with the results. thx

 

[le power]

dont be dissapointed. what you have probably is half-way towards the 200whp goal. if money is not a problem i think there are more things u need to buy to achieve this. with a 1.6 and emanage..its a long way to go.

keep us updated by the way with the results. thx

what else i have to do...do i have to change the piston?or to make pnp or set the cam using dial gauge accordingly with the manufacture spec:hmmmm: that is crower

 

[kuNyit]

plung b20b block or put turbo on your existing engine surely you satisfied!
ngeh! ngeh! ngeh! can fly edi................

 

[kenfi27]

yup b20.............. v..................tec.................

 

[le power]

b20b can reach 2++hp ke???

 

[hattech-v]

more than that...
there is no replacement for displacement.
a super lot need to be done on 1.6 to get 200+whp.

if u manage to get 180-190 for 1.6 oso shud be ok...

i think u get that kind of power coz of ur piston. ur current cr seem not enuf to support the cam...

last time my stock b16b with tuned chip and jun 3 managed to get 178whp.
no pnp, no balancing, no oversize t/body...

 

[patpaty]

more than that...
there is no replacement for displacement.
a super lot need to be done on 1.6 to get 200+whp.

if u manage to get 180-190 for 1.6 oso shud be ok...

i think u get that kind of power coz of ur piston. ur current cr seem not enuf to support the cam...

last time my stock b16b with tuned chip and jun 3 managed to get 178whp.
no pnp, no balancing, no oversize t/body...

then tis time how d?? everything done d?? wats d figure??

 

[le power]

more than that...
there is no replacement for displacement.
a super lot need to be done on 1.6 to get 200+whp.

if u manage to get 180-190 for 1.6 oso shud be ok...

i think u get that kind of power coz of ur piston. ur current cr seem not enuf to support the cam...

last time my stock b16b with tuned chip and jun 3 managed to get 178whp.
no pnp, no balancing, no oversize t/body...

thank for the comment....which piston is better...the type r piston or the toda piston if want to get the higher cr

 

[dcloo]

thank for the comment....which piston is better...the type r piston or the toda piston if want to get the higher cr

type r piston not enough
go for 83 mm piston like wiseco/je/cp/mahley to get more higher CR 11.5 or higher
68/70 mm thortle body to get peak whp at high rev n better respond

can u show up the dyno graph for better comment?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Actually you should post your dyno results, it would be lot more helpful, only the torque, if you have seperate printouts (i.e. dastek dyno), as the hp can be calculated from that, so just post one will do.

If you can retain adequate torque past the 8K mark, you will get that 190-200hp. (on enginelah) actually can be higher, but you need to live with certain issues that shouldn't be in a daily driven car.

10.5CR actually quite workable, although having 11+CR will give you better low end torque, because high duration cams tend to kill low end power. I'm guessing right now that your low end torque pretty much sucks, no? unless you ran higher comps via thinner gasket and flat valves.

but 167whp should mean you're getting peak torque at around 7.5-8Krpm correct? because your power output does nearly mimic mine, but I'd need to look at the dyno graphs.

so unless you can move your peak torque higher in the rev range, higher hp is unachievable.

but 167whp + 4.785... I think that's a pretty quick setup, but depends on the amount of torque at 6-9K.

if your mechanic can find out exactly how much retard or advance you can set your cams at, you can play with your cams slightly to get a bit more hp out of that. but not by much. There is a limit to that due to 1.6L and standard compression. You can run higher comps to compensate = higher pressure = more torque, but knocking would be concern unless you ran on race fuel.

I managed to push up to 170now, but knocking issues already, so finally reverted back to original because my car is a daily driven rustbucket after all.

200whp peak is quite doable with 1.6, but getting adequate torque to cover the gear range is the problem. The powerband is only like 2000-2500rpms wide, and will significantly be less as you push the torque higher in the RPM range, but currently my peak is only at 7.5K, so unless I go to higher rpms, I'm not messing with the peak just yet.

BTW, what heat range are you running on your plugs? 7s? 7 allow for that extra bit of ign. advance. 8's I think is better if you bumped up compression, or ran 9.5K rpms. but starting on no. 8 plugs on morning are not something enjoyable.

If you post yours, I'll post mine, and we can compare, I can even show you projected peak hp numbers based on peak torque location in the RPM range.

but high 'peak' hp does not = faster car,
which is why the 'there's no replacement for displacement' holds true everytime.

big displacement have the advantage of more torque, and although the peak area is still around 2-2.5K, it makes a heck of a lot more.

 

[J101]

if you plan to keep this 1.6 then it will be a high revving engine to achieve your goal.

high revving you will need stronger internals to withstand the heat abuse and lighten internals to overcome inertia. (that means more money on forged parts).

a 2XXwhp 1.6 may not have the torque unlike the 1.8 and 2.0 but to achieve such plans is something to brag about. if you appreciate mechanical works i believe you will stick to 1.6 unless u want fast power then we all know whats the answer.

before you go any further, its good if you can personally do your own research online or offline.

i have not seen any 200whp true b16a (with a max of 82mm pistons). theres too many rumours, hidden dyno results and etc etc etc rojak developments.

its not impossible i know.

dont be dissapointed. what you have probably is half-way towards the 200whp goal. if money is not a problem i think there are more things u need to buy to achieve this. with a 1.6 and emanage..its a long way to go.

keep us updated by the way with the results. thx

 

[hattech-v]

for me too, i prefer to stick with 1.6... hehe

 

[le power]

this is my dyno chart...please give comment


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/663/img0050xt1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3532/img0051bo5.jpg

 

[shiroitenshi]

The cams looks like it's properly set, but I think the tune can be worked on further. Your VTEC cam lobe peak, on the chart seems to be at 8.5K (but without the fuel/ignition maps, this is guesswork) but it's not making enough torque at that point to get higher hp numbers. The 6K peak torque bump doesn't count, because at VTEC, the bump is always there because the engine leans out for a while (you can see the AFR bump there)
It's possible that you're either:

A) not having enough compression to get the power

b) not enough ignition advance (or retard) at high rpms to get that power. You can run higher AFRs and and moderate ignition advance to get power, or lower afrs 13's with more ignition advance. The reason people don't play with ignition advance is that there is a risk of knock, depending on weather. Our AFR values varies by near half a point depending on weather, but without a good ignition tune, there is no power to be made.

This is the amount of torque you need to make depending on your max rpm to get a 200hp B16A.

And I'll post my AFR later.. it's in the laptop.. and it's not with me right now. Power lies in the AFR, and the ignition tune. bad ignition tune = no power.

Now, you can see the inherent problems in trying to create a 200whp B16A. A 1.6L engine, makes about 15kg/m at best, unless you start playing with lightened cranks, pistons, etc. etc. so let's put your peak torque at 14kg/m (at wheel), which means you need 11,000 rpm to make 200whp. That's peak torque location, your rev limit is usually 500-1000rpm higher than that.. so obviously 14kg/m will not cut it, and 15kg/m is the more reasonable target, and you can hit it around 9.5K rpm, rev limit 10K.

Now a lightened crank setup can make about 16-17 kg/m at wheel. (about there I think)
so they can actually make 200whp at wheel with the peak torque at 8.5-9K rpm mark, with a rev limit of 9.5K-10K

for non lightened setups, it's insane rpms, which is why for a B16A, it's usually always 190-200hp (on engine), unless you start playing with lightened internals.

sometimes, it's just the cam settings not being right.

Mine has a very apparent peak torque point at 7.5K, and it's higher than the vtec switch point.
Do note that this is (On Engine), before you think that I'm running a big bore setup or something.

notice the torque difference for a 1.8 high compression and a normal compression B16A (on engine vs. on wheel) 1.6L normal compression...Kantoi!

 

[le power]

ok.... thank you so much for the explanation mr shiroitenshi ..i will switch to b18c ..hopefully after raya i will post my chart again and discuss it in this zth.thank you

 

[dcloo]

try to advance ur ignition at low rpm 3-5k n advance at 7-8k rpm
maybe this will help u get higher whp maybe its will knock but not sure or u try on the road to get actual load will get better respond on ur low rev

my fren b16a using jun3 cam can get 178 whp + b16b piston maybe u can get better
Team 99'ers - Honda Civic 99 Spec Enthusiasts' Network -> @{SASUKE}@ ECU tuning solution for Honda engine

 

[shiroitenshi]

ok.... thank you so much for the explanation mr shiroitenshi ..i will switch to b18c ..hopefully after raya i will post my chart again and discuss it in this zth.thank you

B18C is an easy 200whp, compared to a B16A.

B16A needs a lot of serious mods to get 200whp, and will probably not be daily drivable anymore.

like dcloo said, maybe you can play with ignition advance a little more.. 200 on engine is about 170+atw, depending on friction/transmission loss. (if you run lightened pulleys, the losses are a bit less, if you omit A/C, P/S totally, even lesser.)

 

[V8_nutter]

i just installed this item into my b16a... crower cam type 3(305),toda valve spring,brian crower retainer,e-managed blue colour(installed at ksp sunway),mugen 4-1 extractor,exzos done by akop(usj..now at sunway),iridium plug,ngk power cable,1.8 itr manifold,injector b16a....ek9 gearbox..just change to 4.785.., os giken twin plate and flywheel(bought at ss racing)...power timing belt,works adjustable cam pully....aerospeed fuel regulator....no port and polish..stock piston b16a..dyno at gt auto sunway result only get 167hp..vtec open at 6200rpm...is it ok or not...?WHY cannot go 2++hp?just curious..:hmmmm:...to all the sifu and otai vtec please give me comment.

Cannot push to 200 ?,,,the list are ok but piston not suitable & no port,,,thats why. Low compression + high cam no good, plus b16a cannot push high RPM to follow the cam peak power & obviously you cannot push ignition more bcoz of no port done.

 

[V8_nutter]

this is my dyno chart...please give comment


http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/663/img0050xt1.jpg
http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/3532/img0051bo5.jpg

Frankly power is low for a good cam. You can achive same hp number with a good pipe + compression + port without any xtra cam or pistons. 5 years back done at Vision (now closed), stock b16a with compression (stock pistons), port, tuned ecu and a good pipe managed 159whp.

My point is you have all the hardware but the setup and parts are not well matched.