bigger turbo vs EMS to get higher hp?

[xtremeleo]

yep, but the results is quite good bro :) i think a proper fine tuned ems wud be even better in terms of performance and savings

 

[Force Performance]

Is original ECU sufficient?

:shades_smile: So many years ago when i was still new 2 EFI system upgrading, and without any tech. know-how 2 tune such system. i was sure 2 pick-up any of d programmable type ECUs. n believed that could give incredible power improvement. But kept blew my many engines till my wallet tied me up n was now looking at what it would take 2 build my engine, n d EFI management was still a major concern 2 me.

:angel_smile: Some time later i sat in 1 of d member daily driven highly modiflied 500hp. 4G63 turbo which run d original Mitsubiahi ECU n complement by some PS-PowerSport tuning devices, d kind of power with d original ECU was impressive n i asked myself numerous times, will d Mit. ECU sufficient? n would a stand alone be more benefical? Friends, i can tell u my opinion now, d original ECU is d best engine management for its engine when all factors r considered 4 street use.

*d Anwar MotorSports’ Satia regarded as 1 of d top Sepang FF dragster has run numerous low 11 sec passed 1/4mile on nitto tyres without nitrous, oso uses a tuned original ECU with original ignition coil packs n its 16 x 16 resolution of d mapping [which is better than most standalone] rev 2 10,000rpm make it a great EFI system*

 

[cyborgsabah]

for a street car i personaly think that standalone ecu is a not very important.. why spending so much money when you can use cheaper alternative like e-manage or re-chiped stock ecu... with piggyback (not s-afc, it sucks), the stock ecu sure still can handle 1.8 bar what.. unless you want to go higher than that... use the money to buy something else like high cams, better fuel pump etc... but if got budget why not..

 

[pathfinder]

force performance...

are u sure abaout the Anwar's satria ecu?

 

[jo1]

with piggyback (not s-afc, it sucks)

any problem with s-afc?.... i have seen a few car with s-afc that produce great performance.... i'm considering using it to my stock car, any comment appreciated.

 

[xtremeleo]

for a street car i personaly think that standalone ecu is a not very important.. why spending so much money when you can use cheaper alternative like e-manage or re-chiped stock ecu... with piggyback (not s-afc, it sucks), the stock ecu sure still can handle 1.8 bar what.. unless you want to go higher than that... use the money to buy something else like high cams, better fuel pump etc... but if got budget why not..

SAFC suxx? coupled wit an SiTC? u sure? have u used it? maybe the tuning wasnt done porperly? where did u tuned it?

 

[xtremeleo]

force performance : ive never seen a car wit perfect tuned ems blown, maybe ur tuner wasnt up to the std? what ems did u used? what mods?

 

[Joeker]

Force performance,

You sound like those TV shopping adverstiment.

You know where the actor keeps telling the audience how great or how awesome the products works, bla, bla, bla, They sound so fake.

Anyway, back to the main topic.

I think for any aftermarket ECU to give good performance increase depends on the mods done and vice versa.

If a stock engine with merely air filter and ekzos mods, I doubt a even if tuning with a Magneti Pirelli F1 ECU will give minimal or any increase in hp or torque.

Like wise, an engine with big turbo, big displacement, etc, etc, will not be able to perform its full potential with stock ECU's fuel/ignition map.

Its sort of a Chicken and egg situation. Which comes first? the chicken or the egg?

Personally, I'd vouch for hardware first.

The aftermarket ECU needs to be tuned each time a new mod is done.

Therefore without settling the hardware, you'll need to tune your ECU everytime you do a new hardware mod so that the mod will perform optimaly

Mind you, ECU tuning is an expensive affair. A/F ratio SAFC tuning cost RM150~200.

And tHere seems to be some people who like to brag that they're still using stock ECU's in their monster cars. But in actual fact, they're running a programmable chip inside the stock ECU casing.

 

[Joeker]

SAFC suxx? coupled wit an SiTC? u sure? have u used it? maybe the tuning wasnt done porperly? where did u tuned it?

Yes I concur.

I know of a Johor based Wira GSR with Garett GT2825, managed by SAFC 5 button and SITC 5 button.

Dynoed at Aerotech and netted 350++ ON WHEEL HORSEPOWER. :shocked:

 

[VexRed]

RM3K = ur budget which is actually able to get u maybe a 2nd hand m-tech LT8 ecu WITH a 2nd hand good condition bigger turbo... but if u really must choose one i agree wit da other members posts, get a standalone - it's also a good prep for FUTURE mods that u do (such as puttin a big mama turbo) =)

 

[Force Performance]

:shades_smile: I am suggesting that for most daily drive owner; maintain the original ECU is the way to go. Most safety features such as good cold start and stable idle are all retained. However, if any things go wrong of the aftermarket ECU system, it appears to be no particular good safety nets to protect me and my engine going west. But the factory ECU does this and many things like fuel and boost cut protection.

:shades_smile: Can you assure your aftermarket ECU tuner made no mistake and even then if he accidentally put in the wrong mapping that could see engine destruction? I am not suggesting aftermarket ECUs are bad, I actually think they rather good, but it could be better! I can’t imagine how one would start to map an aftermarket ECU even he does have access to the EPROM. To me the re-engineering of the ECU or re-programming it is risky and long process.

:shades_smile:Most aftermarket ECUs are open loop systems where estimates of fueling and ignition are made based on sensor input values to controls the peak pressure position to be in an optimum position. When you have that under control, you have also got the means to control your engine efficiency.

:shades_smile: I am not trying to discourage you. In fact if you have the skill and ability to do so then firstly you obviously have a very advanced understanding of the engine management and you must also be quite technically good in..............I don’t have the same level of confident or knowledge. I think although a lot of users of engine management systems are car enthusiasts I am not sure if they have the same knowledge as you either and every single car tune would be different........

 

[gti88]

:shades_smile:Most aftermarket ECUs are open loop systems where estimates of fueling and ignition are made based on sensor input values to controls the peak pressure position to be in an optimum position. When you have that under control, you have also got the means to control your engine efficiency.

Actually most of the aftermarket engine management systems in the market run close loop.
And only a handful run on open loop configuration. :regular_smile:

 

[cheamys]

Actually most of the aftermarket engine management systems in the market run close loop.
And only a handful run on open loop configuration. :regular_smile:

:regular_smile: I think your close-loop feature here of most current generation aftermarket ECUs mean simple oxygen content feed-back only, but not his full data-acquisition feed back commands.

 

[jinkl]

everything would be right if its tuned right :D

 

[cyborgsabah]

SAFC suxx? coupled wit an SiTC? u sure? have u used it? maybe the tuning wasnt done porperly? where did u tuned it?

compared to other piggyback, safc is in my opinion not worth it... as you may know you cannot play with ignition timing with safc (among other things).. and sitc is rather outdated .... unless you manage to get safc with a very low price, then only its worth it.. second hand 5 buttons sitc is not cheap also... my 2 cents...

 

[lancersr20]

sifus, if i can only afford 1 item, either EMS or bigger turbo, which one should i get?

budget =rm3000

engine evo2(stainless steel i/c, wastegate, fuel regulator, metal gasket 1.5mm, vr4rs block, gtr r34 fuel pump). other parts all evo2 la


option a= standalone ecu (haltech or mircrotech)

option b=bigger turbo (ar70, ar80)

option c=e-manage and t04e (can get right with rm3000?)


so which one is the best? can i just use bigger turbo without EMS?

please help me. thank u

Friend,
RM3k is really not enough....for big hp expectation.
May be you can do step by step.....RM3000 per year

year 2006......get a Map Converter from PS(Product Sabah...eh..no lah) &get instant 25%hp increase

year 2007.......get a step 1 hi cam + cheap2 big injector from chop shop


Year 2008.........get a GT turbine...or to4..or may be... t70/t88

estimated power 300-400hp.If more than this you gonna need overall rm80k for all strong material and performance product.


I have new MAP converter PS product which is distributed from our sifu C.F.LO
and also new Big turbine(refer to my site below) and some 550cc&750cc injector

calll me 012-8393893

 

[dolly]

i would keep your stock motor and turbo and go straight to microtech lt8. My old setup with microtech ecu went 290hp with 0.9bar stock standard everything. A few other efficiency mods would get you to your goal pretty easily. This was on a sissy evo3 bottom end, with your vr4 bottom i'm sure you'd go further!

 

[hybrid evo]

WAH LOTS OF REPLY. i am so confused. wanna put EMS or not ah? some say must put, some say no need.heehe

 

[xtremeleo]

i would keep your stock motor and turbo and go straight to microtech lt8. My old setup with microtech ecu went 290hp with 0.9bar stock standard everything. A few other efficiency mods would get you to your goal pretty easily. This was on a sissy evo3 bottom end, with your vr4 bottom i'm sure you'd go further!

dats quite impressive bro, at 0.9 bar, dats 30 hp (?) just by simply fine tuning ur engine rite? and iam quite sure u r happy wit the FC rite?

 

[dolly]

fc is pretty okay, it should be since i never touched the head or block. I'm just not very happy with the way the car handles, the 4g63 is too damn heavy! (then again i'm have as much skill as an aunty driver that goes to the morning market)