B16A type-r ?

[avantasia]

heh heh hehh all money matters

 

[shiroitenshi]

heh heh hehh all money matters

True, but nobody's asking you to add performance part to your car every month.

Take it slow, and learn as you mod.. after all the reason you mod is for the performance and knowledge, isn't it?

One lesson I've learn about modding with cheap parts is that you're constantly paying for parts failure, so your money is being flowed out for maintainance, rather than further performance mods.. or another is that as you mod, you find that you're bottlenecked by that very part you got on the cheap.

Different people different views, I admit.. kinda depends on how far you want to take your modding.

 

[002100]

no only $$$ matters, knowledge and experience also play an important part in the modding of an engine!!!

 

[shiroitenshi]

no only $$$ matters, knowledge and experience also play an important part in the modding of an engine!!!

Right.. so what do you want to do with your car?

Plonk in a type R, or do it differently?

Either way, it's roughly the same in terms of cost, just that you can bring a B16A/B16B/B20B setup further with the roughly the same costs.

 

[002100]

shiro, i still haven decide what to do yet.. kinda confuse now.
have to plan it properly as i'm still new in the engine modding.

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro, i still haven decide what to do yet.. kinda confuse now.
have to plan it properly as i'm still new in the engine modding.

I suggest the following.. up to you if you want to follow or not.

A) set target hp you want to achieve.
B) choose setup that is the cheapest to achieve your target hp.

Example lah...

A B16A can hit 170whp, but a B16B can do 170whp or more cheaper.

A B16B can hit 190whp, but A B18CR can do 190whp or more cheaper.

B18CR can hit 210whp, but A B20B can make 210whp or more cheaper.

Turbo even cheaper for high HP targets.. sure you can build a NA car making 300hp, but a 300hp turbo engine is cheaper to build..

See where I'm hinting at? It's all in your target hp, and how much you'll need to achieve that target.

So set a target hp, and you can decide your modifications from there. HP isn't everything, but it's something to measure engine output by.

Remember, 200whp is a lot for a light chassis car like a honda civic, so you can out-accelerate like maybe 80% (% is random guess) of other road users in term of acceleration.. that other 20% is crazy modders with bottomless pockets and crazy high hp numbers.. :P

 

[002100]

Thanks shiro! That's a very good guide for me to decide what modifications to be done on the b16a. One more question shiro, are there any way to make the b16a to have more torque apart from changing other blocks?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Thanks shiro! That's a very good guide for me to decide what modifications to be done on the b16a. One more question shiro, are there any way to make the b16a to have more torque apart from changing other blocks?

nope.. more cc = more torque.. unchangeable fact, I think.

Small cc achieve more torque at high end.. means you need to rev the SHIT of of a small cc engine to get the same amount of torque a bigger cc car makes at low end.

Theoretically can by improving the efficiency of the engine, but that one is the realm of engine designers.

 

[suduRed]

I suggest the following.. up to you if you want to follow or not.

A) set target hp you want to achieve.
B) choose setup that is the cheapest to achieve your target hp.

Example lah...

A B16A can hit 170whp, but a B16B can do 170whp or more cheaper.

A B16B can hit 190whp, but A B18CR can do 190whp or more cheaper.

B18CR can hit 210whp, but A B20B can make 210whp or more cheaper.

Turbo even cheaper for high HP targets.. sure you can build a NA car making 300hp, but a 300hp turbo engine is cheaper to build..

See where I'm hinting at? It's all in your target hp, and how much you'll need to achieve that target.

So set a target hp, and you can decide your modifications from there. HP isn't everything, but it's something to measure engine output by.

Remember, 200whp is a lot for a light chassis car like a honda civic, so you can out-accelerate like maybe 80% (% is random guess) of other road users in term of acceleration.. that other 20% is crazy modders with bottomless pockets and crazy high hp numbers.. :P

nice guidance shiro...

 

[shiroitenshi]

Thanks shiro! That's a very good guide for me to decide what modifications to be done on the b16a. One more question shiro, are there any way to make the b16a to have more torque apart from changing other blocks?

Eh, forgot.. change the FD to something like 4.7 or 4.9 will make it seem like your car has more torque, but in actuality your engine still output the same amount of torque.

 

[V8_nutter]

Eh, forgot.. change the FD to something like 4.7 or 4.9 will make it seem like your car has more torque, but in actuality your engine still output the same amount of torque.

In theory ppl can use 4.9/5.0 fd to get more torque. In real life,,,it will ruin 3 gear:shades_smile:

 

[shiroitenshi]

In theory ppl can use 4.9/5.0 fd to get more torque. In real life,,,it will ruin 3 gear:shades_smile:

What you mean by ruin 3 gears??

The first and second probably too short for the stock g/b lah I think.. I think the stock g/b third is far enough though. And of course, with that kind of FD, 8K rpm limit not enough too, I think. need something like maybe 9-9.5K rpm limit to not lose too much speed, which shouldn't be too much problem on a B16A.

 

[V8_nutter]

Shiro,,to big FD will "rosakkan" synchro and mostly 3rd gear. When ppl play big FD,,,they wondering why the syncho cannot tahan,,,and why smaller gear begin weak:shades_smile: ,,,so they complain oem gear is not hardened. IT was bcoz to big FD actually.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Shiro,,to big FD will "rosakkan" synchro and mostly 3rd gear. When ppl play big FD,,,they wondering why the syncho cannot tahan,,,and why smaller gear begin weak:shades_smile: ,,,so they complain oem gear is not hardened. IT was bcoz to big FD actually.

But honda comes out with the 4.785 one what.. so it should be an okay option.

Anyway, the only ones that can use lower FD's are torque monsters.. if sticking with 1.6 litres, got other option or not?

Anyway, I think you're right that big FD screws up synchros and and gears if using high torque engines, but I think for the infamously torqueless B16A.. should not be a problem. 100.xx lbs-ft low end, 120.xx lbs-ft or more only at peak, and if tune for more, the torque is even worse down below... (X_x)

 

[V8_nutter]

4.785 to 4.9/5.0,,,"beza banyak ooo" from numbers it is not too much difference but in real life,,,when you see the FD is big. Unless we shift gear slowly and "lembut" then it's ok,,,putting it with std chassisi (eg9 and such) 1 tonne it will be too much for synchro to handle.

2nd thing most of the aftermarket big FD did not use "pisau" honda so the cut is lari a bit. You can check with your mechanics bout this

 

[shiroitenshi]

4.785 to 4.9/5.0,,,"beza banyak ooo" from numbers it is not too much difference but in real life,,,when you see the FD is big. Unless we shift gear slowly and "lembut" then it's ok,,,putting it with std chassisi (eg9 and such) 1 tonne it will be too much for synchro to handle.

2nd thing most of the aftermarket big FD did not use "pisau" honda so the cut is lari a bit. You can check with your mechanics bout this

Interesting info about the aftermarket FD, are you referring to Japanese brands or ?..

but I still think the synchro wear it's related to how much the engine torque comes out of the engine. I'm not saying this without basis though, as a very high torque B20B setup will cause a 4.4fd stock gearbox to wear out faster, and which is why some are using 4.2 now, even though at the expense of gear vs. speed.

 

[002100]

.. i've almost forgotten that g/b also play an important part in an engine's performance but i'm really not good in this g/b knowledge. Thanks to u guys for all the knowledge sharing and advice. I'm sure not me only who is interested in it. Those who have a b16a in their ride will also wants to know more on how to transform their b16a into performance engine as good as the b16b and in a more cheaper way.

 

[evoX2]

between 4.4FD & 4.7FD, how much top speed diff would it be? 4.7FD FC will be more right?

 

[<azzump®>]

GUD LUCK bro..hepy vtec day

 

[shiroitenshi]

.. i've almost forgotten that g/b also play an important part in an engine's performance but i'm really not good in this g/b knowledge. Thanks to u guys for all the knowledge sharing and advice. I'm sure not me only who is interested in it. Those who have a b16a in their ride will also wants to know more on how to transform their b16a into performance engine as good as the b16b and in a more cheaper way.

Why didn't ask earlier or search..

If you want to retain B16a, and looking for budget upgrades,
I already detailed my experiment.

Not as powerful as a modded B16B, but okay performance gainslah.
Remember that you get what you pay for.

The parts
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/honda/116780-budget-b16a-upgrades.html

The results..
the numbers probably inflated a bit, due to low ambient temp when I dynoed.
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...s-thread-suck-up-your-ego-and-post-yours.html