1.6 cars, which is better?

[Ingolstadt]

for 1.6 i think now got lots of choice..

1. altis 1.6
2. sentra 1.6
3. kia spectra 1.6
4. getx 1.6
5. optra 1.6
6. lancer 1.6
7. waja 1.6


:regular_smile: i guess all got pros n cons one

and the all shitty Hyundai Elantra as well.

For 1.6 cars? better get the 1.8 Honda Civic. thats it i guess. or get a 1.5 car.

 

[Fluffy]

isnt the elentra 1.8?

 

[Ingolstadt]

hahah ~ performs like a 1.6 .... only the FC is like 1.8 (or 2.0) kekeke and somehow, i kept thinking ot'll win the ugliest car of the year award.

 

[wenshen]

if budget 100k, buy ol skol supra 10k, restoration need 90k??!!

haha.. aiseh.. he said.. alot of WORK ma.. not money oso..

if i had a 100+k budget.. i wun wanna run around garages FIXING and patching up my car.. that's my opinion la.. ;)

 

[kyheng]

If this is how cars are being benchmarked. Then i guess the whole automobile industry had to reworked.

What is all the IF, IF and IF? So the main reason of buying a car is to prevent it from "IFFING" all the way till the timing belts snapped? There are alot fo ways to prevent this and timing belts are something that lasts a healthy 80,000km - 120,000km; some timing chains go up to 200,000km. Cars must be thoroughly checked, and if serviced regularly, many problems can be saved. Your statements is as pointless as this :" Buying Merc may lead to common car theft problems." So?! not buy any? WTF you meant by "knocking bonet, metal feel empty" ? And if what you mentioned are what you've observed as you've stated, i'm afriad you're bringing the "way of checking" of tree logs from forest, to the modern world of science and technology. I guess you must be those people who kick on the tyres to see if the suspensions are ok, open and close the doors to "see" if they're using good metal, and perhaps stand in front of the car to "See" if the head lamps are working well? Save the crap dude. Can't belive all the crap... "When snapped, whole engine byebye.... wtf..."

When oil tank explode, whole car + YOU, bye bye also. right? a true but stupid statement.

Buy a car, for me, I have to include all the ifs. I not like you, For me a car front bonet must be though enough to stand a certain hit impact. A simple thing to consider, the harder metal used, it can make the impact time longer, thus our safety is more secure. If the metal used is same as proton, what for we have to pay almost 100k for a local assamble car that using cheap metal?
I admit that I'm outdated, maybe should just believe in science and technology like you said. But seems like you also never do any research, just only listen to what other people said.
For the door got sound or no sound, it might be very subjective as this is more on finishing works. Well, if going to buy an imported car, I think this will not be too much to test. Another thing is you never do all the checking when you buying a new car? You really trust the salesman. Sorry, I not like you, I will check all the things, from lights till engine.
Just use your stupid brain and think again on the belt snapped. Use your car as an example, you are in the middle on the highway with the speed of 110km/h and the belt just snap like that. What will happen? Sure the belt will hit your engine rotating parts near the belt. And with the same speed your car engine is metal chain, what will happen. Even a good mechanic also will not say that this belt can last for 80k, they will even say the belt might snap at around 30k.
And another thing that you make me feel that you are stupid is you don't know what is oil and what is fuel. Come on man, if you don't know much, don't try to become clever by condamning me with some stupid statements. Engine oil flash point is minimum 200 degree C and fuel flash point is at -ve. In order the oil tank to explode, your car engine have to reach temp of atleast 300 and above which this will only happen in your dream.

 

[kyheng]

for 1.6 i think now got lots of choice..

1. altis 1.6
2. sentra 1.6
3. kia spectra 1.6
4. getx 1.6
5. optra 1.6
6. lancer 1.6
7. waja 1.6


:regular_smile: i guess all got pros n cons one

Yeah, agree with you, should include all this in. But some the price is not same, run alot.

 

[Ingolstadt]

Buy a car, for me, I have to include all the ifs. I not like you, For me a car front bonet must be though enough to stand a certain hit impact. A simple thing to consider, the harder metal used, it can make the impact time longer, thus our safety is more secure. If the metal used is same as proton, what for we have to pay almost 100k for a local assamble car that using cheap metal?
I admit that I'm outdated, maybe should just believe in science and technology like you said. But seems like you also never do any research, just only listen to what other people said.
For the door got sound or no sound, it might be very subjective as this is more on finishing works. Well, if going to buy an imported car, I think this will not be too much to test. Another thing is you never do all the checking when you buying a new car? You really trust the salesman. Sorry, I not like you, I will check all the things, from lights till engine.
Just use your stupid brain and think again on the belt snapped. Use your car as an example, you are in the middle on the highway with the speed of 110km/h and the belt just snap like that. What will happen? Sure the belt will hit your engine rotating parts near the belt. And with the same speed your car engine is metal chain, what will happen. Even a good mechanic also will not say that this belt can last for 80k, they will even say the belt might snap at around 30k.
And another thing that you make me feel that you are stupid is you don't know what is oil and what is fuel. Come on man, if you don't know much, don't try to become clever by condamning me with some stupid statements. Engine oil flash point is minimum 200 degree C and fuel flash point is at -ve. In order the oil tank to explode, your car engine have to reach temp of atleast 300 and above which this will only happen in your dream.

LoL ~ guess we're not on the same frequency. You can argue all the way you want. Knocking on the car to listen to the sound and assume whether you'd be safe from a collision? LoL~ go try that. :) Where were you from? I didn't knew Malaysia had internet connections that go far beyond the limits of suburbans. Anyway, go on with your way of "professional car testing". Go knock knock .. LoL~ oh, how do you test the interiors? " Rub Rub? or the windows ? Ding Ding? Sorry but i don't feel like sharing anything more with you. :)

 

[kyheng]

The man that will say people is from suburbans he is actually is, not other people. I have read your another posting on another thread, you really make me lough, something like infront of your boss you say this staff no good, then infront of that staff you say that boss no good. Won't you feel you actually like an idiot?
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/showthread.php?t=83497&page=2
I open this thread is to get more opinion on this 3 cars, so I have my point of view on choosing a car, I think for some other people, some uncles also will choose a car like me, not youngsters. Now is dealing with a 100k car, not 30k car, so if check properly all, is it mean too much?

 

[omnikron]

i'd have to agree on ingolstadt on certain points.

by knocking on metal panels you will know the thickness of the panel. just because it "sounds" thin doesn't mean it's weak. big car companies have invested billions of dollars into design to reduce weight, improve safety and look better.

modern cars have a lot of "bones" behind these thin panels ensuring proper strength in maintained, and at the same time safety for pedestrians. if you will still argue that thicker is better and you don't give a fug to pedestrian safety, then you have not improved since the 70s.

the reason that car makers choose either belt or chain would be because of reliability, noise and cost. chains cost more to make and a bit noisier but last longer. newer cars with chains sounds ok to me. belt is cheaper and quieter but last a bit shorter. of course there will always be the question of IFs.

in fact, it could just snap the moment u turn the key when u take your brand spanking new car, because parts like these have an gamma,γ value of 0. thats the point of warranties, which is to cover any IF cases, even parts have warranties so if you have changed at your authorized service center and it breaks, you can always claim it from them.

regarding the remark about how the hyundai elantra is a 1.6 car with 1.8 engine. i would like to ask if you have owned the car before, because my family has owned it (year 2002model) for about 2 years and the car is a good budget car for that segment. the interior space is reasonable, power is there for highway cruises, fuel consumption is ok not like the gaz guzzler that you have mentioned. kah-bintang service center is helpful, and the maintainence is cheap. if you and pardon the lousy interior plastic and hot interior, i would seriously consider this car.

note: even with proper window tints, the elantra gets pretty hot in the afternoon.

 

[omnikron]

sorry fpr double posting.

food for thought. Smart for Two's panels are made of *gasp* plastic, but has scored very well in occupent safety. So still think that thicker means better?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ju6t-yyoU8s&search=smart car

 

[kyheng]

I don't know on this, but euro spec cars and asian spec cars got 1 big diff between them, where safety for Euro will be put on first and Asian will put on last. When taking this into consideration, will you think lighter is better? I also know that now all the cars have alot of so-called 'bones' inside a car. But what if you involved in an accident where you hit a light post on the center of your car bonet which the bones is not there? If you got a chance to have knock on all the cars, if can between Eoru spec and Asain spec, I think maybe you will change your statement. The best example, Proton, export models the metal used is heavier than our own use. On top of that they add an impact bar on the door where our own use has nothing. This same goes to other cars, they will have Euro and Asian spec. So why are the Euro spec will always more expensive and Asian spec are slightly cheaper?
I don't why you want to show this movie. But with that type of impact, yes the car is still there, but what about the driver? If you can notice the bottom part after the impact. If he still can survive also, he will still lost his lower body. If compare to the older car that use metal only, the driver and passanger still will have the chance to live, the most will have serious injuries but still can walk after that. What for want a car that can stand high hit impact where the driver cannot drive a car after that?

 

[jasonchan]

i guess we also have to be sensitive when making comments here..not everybody is rich or can afford civic 1.8.

on top of that..i always see that ppl will say honda and toyota is much more superior than the rest of the model, which is not really true..

like i say all got pro n con..and even if a person buy proton i would not say he is stupid because in the end it is up to the affordability of that person...who donno bmw or merc is good but can we afford or not?

so i would say it is not nice of us to bash certain model / makes:_:

 

[Ingolstadt]

i'd have to agree on ingolstadt on certain points.

by knocking on metal panels you will know the thickness of the panel. just because it "sounds" thin doesn't mean it's weak. big car companies have invested billions of dollars into design to reduce weight, improve safety and look better.

modern cars have a lot of "bones" behind these thin panels ensuring proper strength in maintained, and at the same time safety for pedestrians. if you will still argue that thicker is better and you don't give a fug to pedestrian safety, then you have not improved since the 70s.

the reason that car makers choose either belt or chain would be because of reliability, noise and cost. chains cost more to make and a bit noisier but last longer. newer cars with chains sounds ok to me. belt is cheaper and quieter but last a bit shorter. of course there will always be the question of IFs.

in fact, it could just snap the moment u turn the key when u take your brand spanking new car, because parts like these have an gamma,γ value of 0. thats the point of warranties, which is to cover any IF cases, even parts have warranties so if you have changed at your authorized service center and it breaks, you can always claim it from them.

regarding the remark about how the hyundai elantra is a 1.6 car with 1.8 engine. i would like to ask if you have owned the car before, because my family has owned it (year 2002model) for about 2 years and the car is a good budget car for that segment. the interior space is reasonable, power is there for highway cruises, fuel consumption is ok not like the gaz guzzler that you have mentioned. kah-bintang service center is helpful, and the maintainence is cheap. if you and pardon the lousy interior plastic and hot interior, i would seriously consider this car.

note: even with proper window tints, the elantra gets pretty hot in the afternoon.

Very thoroughly explained. bravos~ I have to apologize for making a statement on the Elantra, i haven't own one, but sensitivities of certain buyers on different aspects of cars varies greatly. I for one go for the sincerity in a product, a manufacturer that oftenly wants to push out the best or latest from their R&D, thou might fail thru the course of time, would have been given an applause from me, whereas manufacturers who only just copy on successful 'recipes' of other manufacturers and intends to make money thru it, is a 'no no' for me. :) I'm a car enthusiasts, not a car driver. My first toy is a car, my last one would be as well. Hence i've never look at cars as appliances, or utilities which would just serve and serve and serve. People like me, support Apple computers, cause the sincerity is there, although cannot deny the fact that i need a Windows PC, to work for me. Hence, i have a Kancil as well.

p.s. compared to my Audi, the Kancil is as invincible as it can be. My Audi.. kinda temperamental, but forgiven for its other aspects. :)

 

[Ingolstadt]

I don't know on this, but euro spec cars and asian spec cars got 1 big diff between them, where safety for Euro will be put on first and Asian will put on last. When taking this into consideration, will you think lighter is better? I also know that now all the cars have alot of so-called 'bones' inside a car. But what if you involved in an accident where you hit a light post on the center of your car bonet which the bones is not there? If you got a chance to have knock on all the cars, if can between Eoru spec and Asain spec, I think maybe you will change your statement. The best example, Proton, export models the metal used is heavier than our own use. On top of that they add an impact bar on the door where our own use has nothing. This same goes to other cars, they will have Euro and Asian spec. So why are the Euro spec will always more expensive and Asian spec are slightly cheaper?
I don't why you want to show this movie. But with that type of impact, yes the car is still there, but what about the driver? If you can notice the bottom part after the impact. If he still can survive also, he will still lost his lower body. If compare to the older car that use metal only, the driver and passanger still will have the chance to live, the most will have serious injuries but still can walk after that. What for want a car that can stand high hit impact where the driver cannot drive a car after that?

sorry for my harsh statement, but i have to let you know there's something called crumple zone, in which the frontal end of the car as well as the backend of the car was designed to absorb impact 'G' forces while a car rams something in a considerable speed, or force. These designs were made so that during an impact, the excruciating forces of these impacts were absorb by the crumpling front ends, and the way they crumple, were designed to be so. Many hidden designs of our cars lies beneath the "knocking surface of yours" the places where you "knock" the cars, doesn't determine whether you're safe or not, it is however the "bones" that he had aforementioned, or i would say "chassis" or "sub frame" the determines how well you are protected. Our car's front end was designed to "bengkak" or crumple in an accident, first is due that there weren't much to protect the frontal end, besides fragile radiators, alternators, coolant tanks, aircon fan and such; thats why there are many people who always brag about how the Wira that hit their Corolla's butt, and that the Wira's front sustain heavy damage whereas the rear part of Corolla had only a dented bumper, its not because Wira is made of considerably lower quality of materials, infact, put the two cars the other way round, same thing will happen to the Toyota. The most important part of a car that determines the safety of you and your family, is the frame between 'A' pillars to 'C' pillars, this is what Toyota's always bragged about their GOA bodies. The design of this cage, or the safety of it, cannot be determined by simple knocking on the surface of the 'cage' in which the surface only determines how the car will look. I'll give you an example of the 'surface' i meant, and the 'cage' i meant, Honda Jazz, had the same 'cage' as the Honda City, but with different 'surfaces'

On top of that, Proton, no matter export or local, does have a side impact bar hidden within the doors. Knock it off (a harder knock i supposed) and you can see it. :)

The video he showed you, is the Smart. A car manufactured by Mercedes in cooperation with Swatch. This is a very small car, almost smallest by all means. and a very light car (the 'light' that you deemed NOT SAFE). The video shows the car travelling at 100km/h and hit straight into a concrete barrier, and the Tridion structure remains as sturdy as it is. This means that the human inside the car will not be hard pressed to death by all the machineries in the frontal end, and upon the impact, the doors can still be opened, this shows that it is an extremely safe car. it shows that the passenger cell is still protecting the passengers. And anyone with a tad more knowledge on cars would've been stunned by the results of that video, this is because most crash tests, namely the highly reknowned Euro NCAP crash test, tests frontal direct impacts with a mere 54km/h, and they did not crash the car into a CONCRETE BARRIER, the car was onyl subjected to an object simulating the effects of another car's frontal ends, which means the barrier they used in EURO NCAP, is something that absorbs impacts as well, and MANY cars failed badly in that test, namely our Waja. Imagine a car hitting full force onto a 20 ton concrete barrier (which in 100% chances, would have deflect all the force back to the car) would've been collaterally damaged. That video is a strong proof to people like you that, lighter cars doesnt have to be more deadly. Infact, a badly designed car (the subframe, not the outer layer you knocked on) will definitely crumpled itself in an uncontrollable way and hence, killed the passenger.

Of course, i agree with you that a heavier car does have advantage hitting a lighter car, the force of momentum that was carried by the marginally bigger car will do more damage to the smaller car, but how would've you know you, the passenger inside the 'bigger' car, is safe at all? the passenger of that Smart, would've walked away alive with a badly damaged car, but you, could've been dead in your slightly dented car.

Most passengers that died of crashes died because they were hit on by the crumpling in of engines, pedals, and if there seatbelts doesn't have pre-tensioners, their body would've been subjected to such high G-forces where the passenger's internal organs were slammed onto his rib cages, and hence internal bleeding. These kind of injuries are caused by the car's inability to absorb the 'G' forces that the car was subjected to. And besides the number of air bags, seatbelts, crumple zones, preventive measures of a car is also a good way of avoiding accidents, take Citroen's latest C4 as example, when a driver felt drowsy, and drifts from his current lane to another lane, which is a dangerous act as motorists from behind or sideways would not have anticipated such a move, the seats will flap his whichever thighs if he were to drift to whichever side of lanes. Such pre-emptive measures save thousands of lives rather than airbags or crumple zones.

Hence, all i wanna share to you is, a safety of a car cannot be measured by the aforementioned as you have shared with us. I think i'm someone who cares about cars and definitely a car enthusiast who would've taken so much of my time to explain all these to whoever people here, because i care about cars, and more to people who make the right decision in buying one.

 

[kyheng]

i think you need to watch the video again and see what is actually happen to the Smart car, yes cannot deny that the door still can open, but did you notice that the other side of the car, the bottom part, all the part gone inside? Another thing is if really doing a proper test, they should put a dummy inside, not like this test. The point I have to put here is if buying a 100k car that uses plastic as you mentioned on another thread here, will you buy or not? Better i buy a Proton that cost 43k that is like platic. Correct or not?

 

[Ingolstadt]

Top Gear says Smart is safe, and our friend kyheng here thinks otherwise by merely looking thru his monitor to a low res video. Good good. knock knock theory again.

Transmission ceased. Sorry, different lingual. Go knock, ding, rub your future car. Bye and good luck.











bummer...................

 

[si|verfish]

Woo...interesting....................

Anyway, I'd like to propose a question to all. Might help clear some doubts or confusion.

A crash test between 2 cars:
Candidate 1: The venerable Volvo 240. Here it is in all its magnificence

Candidate 2: The 2004 Volvo S40. And here it is

2 cars from Volvo, a brand that surely epithomises the very essence of car safety. And we have the tank that is the 240 and meeting it head on is its descendant, the all new S40. Let's say they have a very nasty frontal crash at 100 km/h.

Which car would you rather be in?

Knock on the body panels of the 240 and I'm sure you'd be pleased with how sturdy it is. Surely the 240 will totally annihilate the light and modern S40 (which incidently has a EuroNCAP 5 star safety rating).

So, which one will it be? Which car would you rather be in, in the crash?

 

[kyheng]

I think you have to go back to kindergarden, every word that comes out from your mouth is offending people, should learn more how to respect people. The video is nothing to do with monitor res. If you feel that this topic is not you channel, then why you want to offend people in the first place? On other thread you say Toyota and Honda no good but on this thread you trying to say Toyota and Honda is good. I really don't know. As I said earlier, the frame is still ok, but what about the bottom part of the car? Do you notice or not the damage? And where's the dummy? It will be more real if a dummy is used in the test. Maybe you have to check your eyes on this.

 

[kyheng]

I will choose the 240, if the crash like you said is involving 240 and Proton, maybe the 240 have some scratch and Proton might be total lost. I have seen a new Merc E230 hit a Proton Knight, and the Proton Knight only have rear bumper damage and E230 lost its engine.

 

[si|verfish]

Read the question lar. Between 240 and S40. At 100 km/h. I think damage to the car will be the least of your worries.