B18C or B20B

[avantasia]

aiyaa...my car damn standard la.....cannot compare with u...let's compare between 1.8 only!!!!!!

 

[zero4]

avantasia humble lah, running b20b block with type R head and crower cams, senyap senyap jeee, mana free nasi goreng ayam saya nieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee



i go steal ur hoood

 

[turbo10]

hi..sorry to interrupt.have anyone here ever experience using the skunk2 stage 1 or 2? its power curve and output are quite good.never tried the toda or jun yet.but for a reasonable power i think ITR or CTR cams are the best value for money. for a b20b conversion, revving higher than 8500 rpm,a block girdle would strictly required. from what i read from a reputable honda site stating that it's mandatory to use the girdle on a b20 conversion if playing high revs (of course we need everything else).i believe that because bent a b20b crank once..hehe..not good.for me if we play b20 setup,the ef9 vtec g/box is 'ngam' because the torque of b20 and summore we rev only 8-8500rpm only..so need the 'lajak' for the gearing..if we go for 10-11000 rpm short gear ratios are good because we got the 'lajak' from the high engine rpm..my opinion only...and my 2 cents..cheers

 

[zero4]

i belief some are using skunk 2s, but so far i dunno what are the feedbacks. yeap, b20bs are mean for torque-ky setup, so if toda c got superb mid range power, b20b with toda C should be a good combo, white jun type 3 with b18cr should be sufficient enough.

 

[akuma]

just wondering....a stroked up B18CR block to 2.0L vs a done up B20B block....whc is actualy better?....just curious....coz u can get 2L frm d B18CR block via stroker kit,but u can't really get high-rev/racing reliability frm a B20B block,rite?cause it was never designed 4 VTEC application in d 1st place...
hmmmm.....

 

[little_monster]

Little Monster,

The problem with mech is he is only good at mechanical mod like engine assembly, cam setting etc but he can't do electrical tuning like ecu. Cause during is olden ATCC days all this programmable ecu or piggyback was not allowed, henced he never got around learning it. That is why he ask me to get a ecu tuner myself to maximise power and relaibility.

Zero4,

Hope can achieve good reliable power. I already running ATS 1-5 gear with 4.4FD.

hi chris2000,

well ... if u your mechanic is not good in doin setting up for the ecu i can recommand u to amoil motorsport ekekke cause my car done there ekekke... if not there are plenty of other workshops are capable of tunning the stand alone ECU or even piggy back... N1 racing , GT auto , Links Power ... this few workshops has been programming and tunning stand alone ECU or piggy back for along time ... but if u got other workshop tat are good at tunning the ECU maybe some other ZTH members can recommand...

 

[mugen9]

to me...still jun-3 with b20b...some might say that jun-3 is fragile...

but if set properly it won't be that kind of fragile....if not can't be

lot of US people use Jun-3 isn't it??....a heard a lot of praise on

Skunk 2 cam...but in US laa....better than Toda...

yes..Amoil is well experienced in vtec....u can try ask Jacky...

up to u...

For me....B-work Auto...

 

[zero4]

just wondering....a stroked up B18CR block to 2.0L vs a done up B20B block....whc is actualy better?....just curious....coz u can get 2L frm d B18CR block via stroker kit,but u can't really get high-rev/racing reliability frm a B20B block,rite?cause it was never designed 4 VTEC application in d 1st place...
hmmmm.....

the issue would be...stroker kit aint cheap, while the b20 block is darn bang for buck ler...

 

[WalBro(Apexi)]

Hi Walbro

Your RM products does really look good. But currently budget constraint. My mechanic willing to lend me the Toda C and springs for this project.

Anyway the RM M24x and M25 seems pretty high.. Will it deliver more power than Jun 3? I have used Jun 3 on stock engines before and power is very nice with stock compression. What would the price be including springs+retainer?




i dun think so.because our m22 is nop smaller than toda-c and jun3.did u see my cam b4?dun always just check in the adverdise duration.m22 is great.y omiman run m22 in his 200whp street motor project.because this is very good for daily driving and make very good power.check this link bout the 1.8 L with M22.hear wat they say and download the video.Thanx!but jun3 and toda-c is very good and great.but u can't get warranty from jun and toda.only m22 u have the warranty.u broke the cam u pay.m22 will save u in this way

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1338056

 

[WalBro(Apexi)]

to me...still jun-3 with b20b...some might say that jun-3 is fragile...

but if set properly it won't be that kind of fragile....if not can't be

lot of US people use Jun-3 isn't it??....a heard a lot of praise on

Skunk 2 cam...but in US laa....better than Toda...

yes..Amoil is well experienced in vtec....u can try ask Jacky...

up to u...

For me....B-work Auto...

Skunk2 stage 2 is ame profile with jun3!check the cam in the net.anyway the skunk 2 is made in taiwan.only Rocket motorsport and Crower they r 100% in made in usa.skunk2 make a same company with Blox Racing.so they r same mother and father.hehehhe....but they work well and quality!
Skunk2 and Blox is coming out from the same machine.

check this B18C gain 222WHP with Blox camshaft.this car is very fast.i sell blox camshaft 2.so who interest can drop me a pm.the cam is selling cheap 2.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1371021

 

[WalBro(Apexi)]

We need to do some comparison between ctr cam/jun3/crower3/todaC ........... hehh hehhhh then we can differentiate it....let's start with zero4 and mugen9.....

reliable sources say that while Skunk2 uses chill-cast cores like stock, their (Taiwanese) tolerances are slop, so if you use them, at the very least, plastigauge to be sure you have proper oil film thickness between camshafts and journals. dunno if there are different ways of chill-casting, or if the metal/alloy can vary, but that might be another thing to consider- hardness/brittleness, etc. these cams generally make very good power. many people have no reliability issues with them, some do, and as we all know, bad news travels faster/farther, but even those with problems usually agree (however differently) that S2 cams offer a big 'bang' for the buck.
Spoon cams use actual OEM Honda cores, and are ground for Spoon to their specs by Toda.

Aside from Toda As (similar specs to Spoon and S2 stg1), the ramp angles of their cams are too severe for me to consider them (though they've been proven to make excellent power) when milder cams can make = or > power with the proper configuration, and wear less on the valvetrain.

after speaking with Rocket at ef-1.com, i'm likely to try the m22 or m23 cams. he does lots of research with many knowledgeable/experience people in the industry, and insists upon high quality materials, proven manufacturing processes, and seems to have good designs for power/longevity/reliability at good prices. yeah, it sounds like an ad, but i have no financial connection with him (and as are we all, i am a child of conumer/producer/marketing culture).

i've seen Crower cams, and didn't like the unfinished/rough edges on the sides of the cam lobes, and have heard that their cores are not the best. their specs seem good, though, and i've seen some good power with them.

Jun has supposedly improved their cams, which have been known to snap. i still think that their stage 3 cams are one of the best sets overall.

for valvesprings/Ti retainers, flat-out i'd say that for most performance applications, though they are a good value, $ aside, Rocket's are prolly the best.

(copy out from Honda-Tech.com)

 

[WalBro(Apexi)]

Rocket M22 Cams / J4 Head v. JUN3 Cams / ITR Head
Hickory Dickory Dock, The Old JUN3 Combo Just Got Clocked

Let me preface this by saying that JUN3 are great camshafts and rightly so because most people have not found camshafts that make better power. This does not mean it can not be done. (Important lesson here: DO NOT LET THE LIMITATIONS OF OTHERS LIMIT YOU).

Before I go into specs and details, RM is and will always be grateful that the owner of this motor Arno (98itr484) for putting together a bad ass motor and gracious enough to share his dyno tuning sessions. THANKS ARNO AND FRIENDS!!!



I expect to see a 25 - 28whp gain from the m22 cams / Rocket Head

So far Arno is 10hp over his previous setup even with the stock injectors maxed out and the run cutoff at 8.0K due to fuel starvation.


Old Setup 205.6 whp / 131.8 tq
Intake: J's Racing
Throttle Body: ITR
Intake Manifold: ITR
Injectors: Stock
Camshafts: JUN3
Springs/Retainer: JUN Dual Springs / JUN Ti Retainers
Valves: ITR
Cylinder Head: ITR
Cam Gears: JG Adjustable
Bottom End: USDM ITR 81.00mm Bore
Compression Ratio: 10.6
Header: SMSP 1.8L 4-2-1 Odd Paired Long Tube Header
Exhaust: Spoon
Fuel Management: Chipped P28 w/ VAFC

New Set-up 223whp / 145 tq on most recent re-dyno. 230+ with Shawn Church Magic Intake.
Graph shown is 215.8whp initial dyno.

Intake: Same
Throttle Body: Same
Intake Manifold: AEBS
Injectors: Same
Camshafts: M22 254 duration @ 0.050. 12mm Lift In/ Ex
Springs/Retainer: RM G1 Springs / G2 Ret 95lbs on the seat, 265 at 12mm
Valves: Supertech 33.0/28.0 Int/Ex flat faced valves
Cylinder Head: RM J4 B16 Head. High Flow / Low Turbulence Ports. Milled 0.025
Cam Gears: Same
Bottom End: Same
Compression Ratio: 11.2
Header: Same
Exhaust: Buddy Club
Fuel Management: Hondata S200

 

[WalBro(Apexi)]

Rocket Motorsports is a small specialty operation located in a suburb of Los Angeles primarily focused on developing products and technology of higher quality and higher performance for the pro, semi-pro racer and street enthusiast in the Honda and import industry. Our customers and friends are primarily small shops, racers or individuals looking to run the best parts and are not limited to the "current thinking", magazine technology and/or big name brands. In September 2002, we had our now infamous M24 cam tested against the JUN3. At that time, the JUN3 was widely accepted as the horsepower king of cams for B-series VTEC engines. To this day people still believe the JUN3 can't be beat. Of course, we didn't let this thinking stop us from making our M24 cam. Needless to say, our testing on a 12.5:1 B20VTEC showed the M24 gained HP over the JUN3 from 4.5k rpm and up. Many thanks to Tan Cheng Poh of Ultramax in Singapore for performing the controversial test. Thus our domain name, M24X.com, was chosen to highlight our accomplishment with the M24 profile and more importantly our efforts of bringing our customers the best possible parts and technology for their racing/performance needs. Bottom line: we never listen to other so called "experts" who are in reality marketing experts or internet guru's with extremely limited hands on experience. You shouldn't either. Our development efforts are based on our close relationships with our customers and experienced organizations and people such as Bubba of the former TrackMasters, RLZ Engineering, Steve "Omniman" Rothenbuler, CP Pistons, Cunningham Rods, JG Engine Dynamics, and Ultramax. If you want the edge in performance these are the people you should be talking to.