4AF + Blacktop internal part = work?

[1JZtezza]

Bro... For your information, the 4AGE 16V can put the 4AGE 20V Bottom block set in without a single mod... Do you believe? I done this for my ex car already... It worked perfectly, but need at least SAFC 5 button lo...! Result.. get about 25 whp. From 105 whp to 130 whp.

Ok, me bad! now I know ..but still surprised as the BT engine has highest compression ratio!I was just trying to reply to your thread title.

Anyway for you all information too:
4AFE serve better torque and power at lower rpm...
4AGE 16V serve better torque and power at middle rpm...
4AGE 20V serve better torque and power at high rpm...
Logically... SOHC engine always have better power at low rpm than the DOHC can do... this is fact!

Better low end power normally means better low end torque....normally in under-square engine ie longer stroke and/or higher compression ratio.Anyway here is the wikipedia link:Toyota A engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BT seems to have highest torque rating.


So in this scene, my mum and dad won't need the power at high rpm kua! So what for I need to have a DOHC engine, which I only need low rpm and better accelerate?

Isn't the 4AF a DOHC engine?Anyway why go thru so much hassle...just change the final drive will do.If the carb is giving you trouble then change the carb to a weber DCNF downdraft... link here:Which is the right Weber is for me????
I thought you meant single DCOE, then you got manifold problem.

Beside this... I will use only single webber, not twin webber. Swap car with my mum/dad? Just forget about it! My bro use 4AGZE, me use 3SGTE, my sister use 4EFTE and my younger bro use 4G63... You think they dare to drive our car?

BT ECU and webber... why need to do this? Very weird la..

Thought maybe you transplant BT (engine kosong) into the car and still want the vvt!! hehe

Anyway have fun modding!!!

 

[hachiroku clan]

Yea, isnt 4af dohc? Gear driven cams o something?

 

[TRD.AE92]

Better low end power normally means better low end torque....normally in under-square engine ie longer stroke and/or higher compression ratio.Anyway here is the wikipedia link:Toyota A engine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BT seems to have highest torque rating.

You see is real... highest torque... but you see properly, you will reliance that I what I talking in low rpm...
4AFE - 142Nm at 4800 rpm (Means at lower rpm, I already have the max torque)
4AGE (BT) - 162 N·m at 5200 rpm (means I need to rev up to 5200 rpm to get max torque)

Isn't the 4AF a DOHC engine?Anyway why go thru so much hassle...just change the final drive will do.If the carb is giving you trouble then change the carb to a weber DCNF downdraft... link here:Which is the right Weber is for me????
I thought you meant single DCOE, then you got manifold problem.

Yes... It was still call DOHC, but the real is SOHC... The correct name would be SOHC + Extra cam.
Final Drive? I now already used 6 speed gearbox already le...

 

[1JZtezza]

Power(hp)=Torque(lb-ft)xRPM divided by 5252

Go plot out the chart!!The BT engine would have a higher torque curve.Stock BT v 4AF gear rations being the same...the BT will still out accelerate the 4AF and THAT is low end power!

 

[scottwrx]

You see is real... highest torque... but you see properly, you will reliance that I what I talking in low rpm...
4AFE - 142Nm at 4800 rpm (Means at lower rpm, I already have the max torque)
4AGE (BT) - 162 N·m at 5200 rpm (means I need to rev up to 5200 rpm to get max torque)


Yes... It was still call DOHC, but the real is SOHC... The correct name would be SOHC + Extra cam.
Final Drive? I now already used 6 speed gearbox already le...

bro.. 4afe is dohc lah.. meaning to say got 2 cams, but only one cam pulley, sohc is one cam n one pulley, twin cam means twin cam, and cam pulley

---------- Post added at 10:24 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:19 PM ----------

Power(hp)=Torque(lb-ft)xRPM divided by 5252

Go plot out the chart!!The BT engine would have a higher torque curve.Stock BT v 4AF gear rations being the same...the BT will still out accelerate the 4AF and THAT is low end power!

bro.. have to disagree wif u, each engine has their own distinctive power curve, and torque is not and cannot be calculated based on power... if yes, what bout diesel engine? 34kg torque but still 110 horse power?

power curve relies much on the engine construction, stroke length, na or force induction...

 

[TRD.AE92]

bro.. 4afe is dohc lah.. meaning to say got 2 cams, but only one cam pulley, sohc is one cam n one pulley, twin cam means twin cam, and cam pulley

Yeah... In the book, it call DOHC... But in my hometown language, it call extra cam SOHC. Wahahaha.... Sorry for make u all blur.

bro.. have to disagree wif u, each engine has their own distinctive power curve, and torque is not and cannot be calculated based on power... if yes, what bout diesel engine? 34kg torque but still 110 horse power?

power curve relies much on the engine construction, stroke length, na or force induction...

Yes... I agree with you...

 

[futeball]

So trd.ae92, u have 3s-gte car, is it original 3s-gte model or transplant to other toyota body. mind to share?

One more question, i noticed many of your thread claiming that u have 4a-gze...now u claim u have 3s-gte. im confused man. can clear me up. tq.

 

[1JZtezza]

bro.. have to disagree wif u, each engine has their own distinctive power curve, and torque is not and cannot be calculated based on power... if yes, what bout diesel engine? 34kg torque but still 110 horse power?

power curve relies much on the engine construction, stroke length, na or force induction...

Glad u asked!!!...Torque is normally measured(like on dyno)...thats why Dynos give u brake horsepower

From wikipedia:

Mechanical power

In mechanics, the work done on an object is related to the forces acting on it by

W = F \cdot \Delta d \,

where

F is force
Δd is the displacement of the object.

This is often summarized by saying that work is equal to the force acting on an object times its displacement (how far the object moves while the force acts on it). Note that only motion that is along the same axis as the force "counts", however; motion in the same direction as force gives positive work, and motion in the opposite direction gives negative work, while motion perpendicular to the force yields zero work.

Differentiating by time gives that the instantaneous power is equal to the force times the object's velocity v(t):

P(t) = \mathbf{F}(t) \cdot \mathbf{v}(t) \,.

The average power is then

P_\mathrm{avg} = \frac{1}{\Delta t}\int\mathbf{F} \cdot \mathbf{v}\;\mathrm{d}t \,.

This formula is important in characterizing engines—the power output of an engine is equal to the force it exerts multiplied by its velocity.

In rotational systems, power is related to the torque (τ) and angular velocity (ω):

Torque can be calculated...but too complex for me!!!

As for diesel engines...ever watch WTCC....BMW versus SEAT.
BMW is NA 2litre..petrol.
SEAT is turbo-diesel 2litre
Ever watch them drag on the straights....side by side right
WTCC rules: BMW rev limit 8500rpm for NA but for the SEAT turbo-diesel rev limit is only 4200rpm....yet they can go side by side.Think about it!!!!

Lastly gearboxes(4,5 or 6speed) and final drive are two distinctly different things.

 

[hachiroku clan]

TRD.AE92 and all sifus, im driving a 92 with 4af too.. Just wondering how tahan is the 4af? Especially the crankshaft.. Its running good, and like the low end torque feel.. But takut to rev high2 lah.. What max rpm is considered safe? If im not mistaken max hp is achieved at 6000rpm.. Being a 20 year old car, is it safe to even reach that 6k point?

 

[TRD.AE92]

So trd.ae92, u have 3s-gte car, is it original 3s-gte model or transplant to other toyota body. mind to share?

One more question, i noticed many of your thread claiming that u have 4a-gze...now u claim u have 3s-gte. im confused man. can clear me up. tq.

U search my thread properly, then you will notice that I have a ST205.
4AGZE is my bro project car... hope you don't confusing.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

TRD.AE92 and all sifus, im driving a 92 with 4af too.. Just wondering how tahan is the 4af? Especially the crankshaft.. Its running good, and like the low end torque feel.. But takut to rev high2 lah.. What max rpm is considered safe? If im not mistaken max hp is achieved at 6000rpm.. Being a 20 year old car, is it safe to even reach that 6k point?

4AFE Durability? Toyota is build tough, so what to worry about?
Crankshaft are able to interchange with 4AGE too...
Takut to high rev? Ermm.... last time, i think that (4AFE) if I rev till red line the engine will blowed... But who know that my ideal was dramatically wrong. I rev till 7200 rpm, it still there... Wahahaha...

20 year old? Ermm.... I dunno how u use, but I don't it was a problem on crank... The major problem would be at selinder head and the piston itself.

My mum/dad drive majority change gear at 3.5rpm, and how still working well... My mum/dad car are 20 year too... and mileage still at 160k km only... Believe? Wahahahaha...

 

[hachiroku clan]

U search my thread properly, then you will notice that I have a ST205.
4AGZE is my bro project car... hope you don't confusing.
---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

4AFE Durability? Toyota is build tough, so what to worry about?
Crankshaft are able to interchange with 4AGE too...
Takut to high rev? Ermm.... last time, i think that (4AFE) if I rev till red line the engine will blowed... But who know that my ideal was dramatically wrong. I rev till 7200 rpm, it still there... Wahahaha...
20 year old? Ermm.... I dunno how u use, but I don't it was a problem on crank... The major problem would be at selinder head and the piston itself.
My mum/dad drive majority change gear at 3.5rpm, and how still working well... My mum/dad car are 20 year too... and mileage still at 160k km only... Believe? Wahahahaha...

bro, mine is carbie 4af ae92, i wish i have 4afe.. Hehe i change gear at 3 to 3.5k.. If rev to 4k i already takut.. Not confident lah, scared got too much stress n wear n tear on the engine.. Highway pon 110kmh je.. U mean cylinder head pecah ke? Mine 350k milage already.. Everyday car maa..

 

[scottwrx]

Glad u asked!!!...Torque is normally measured(like on dyno)...thats why Dynos give u brake horsepower

From wikipedia:

Mechanical power

In mechanics, the work done on an object is related to the forces acting on it by

W = F \cdot \Delta d \,

where

F is force
Δd is the displacement of the object.

This is often summarized by saying that work is equal to the force acting on an object times its displacement (how far the object moves while the force acts on it). Note that only motion that is along the same axis as the force "counts", however; motion in the same direction as force gives positive work, and motion in the opposite direction gives negative work, while motion perpendicular to the force yields zero work.

Differentiating by time gives that the instantaneous power is equal to the force times the object's velocity v(t):

P(t) = \mathbf{F}(t) \cdot \mathbf{v}(t) \,.

The average power is then

P_\mathrm{avg} = \frac{1}{\Delta t}\int\mathbf{F} \cdot \mathbf{v}\;\mathrm{d}t \,.

This formula is important in characterizing engines—the power output of an engine is equal to the force it exerts multiplied by its velocity.

In rotational systems, power is related to the torque (τ) and angular velocity (ω):

Torque can be calculated...but too complex for me!!!

As for diesel engines...ever watch WTCC....BMW versus SEAT.
BMW is NA 2litre..petrol.
SEAT is turbo-diesel 2litre
Ever watch them drag on the straights....side by side right
WTCC rules: BMW rev limit 8500rpm for NA but for the SEAT turbo-diesel rev limit is only 4200rpm....yet they can go side by side.Think about it!!!!

Lastly gearboxes(4,5 or 6speed) and final drive are two distinctly different things.

sorry bro.. cannot be accepted... not to create conflict or problem.. i still think that torque cannot be calculated.... u still cannot answer the first question that i mention earlier, 34kg or torque n 110 bhp.. the is no way to calculate the engine output based on formula.. no way!

 

[TRD.AE92]

sorry bro.. cannot be accepted... not to create conflict or problem.. i still think that torque cannot be calculated.... u still cannot answer the first question that i mention earlier, 34kg or torque n 110 bhp.. the is no way to calculate the engine output based on formula.. no way!

I think he left out the weight ratio... and most important is gear ratio too...

 

[normality78]

sorry bro.. cannot be accepted... not to create conflict or problem.. i still think that torque cannot be calculated.... u still cannot answer the first question that i mention earlier, 34kg or torque n 110 bhp.. the is no way to calculate the engine output based on formula.. no way!

an est torque can be calculate bro. but then what u said about sohc, 16v dohc and 20v dohc respond is true. less moving parts, more responsive.

over side track edi la... back to 4AF + BT internal...

the only gain i see frm doing this is more responsive engine as higher comp plus BT internal is lighten and more "balance".

my opinion, grab the 20V block and hentam F head on it. Kaotim....

 

[TRD.AE92]

an est torque can be calculate bro. but then what u said about sohc, 16v dohc and 20v dohc respond is true. less moving parts, more responsive.

over side track edi la... back to 4AF + BT internal...

the only gain i see frm doing this is more responsive engine as higher comp plus BT internal is lighten and more "balance".

my opinion, grab the 20V block and hentam F head on it. Kaotim....

Hahaha... We are same family... At least you also think as me think...

 

[bernard74]

Got my car back yesterday...cant rev high yet, but sure does feel the hp gain. engine sound is diff as well. will rev it up by next weekend after oil change, hopefully the hp gain is significant & more responsive. Can 4age 20v block fit 4afe head? which gearbox then? If need 4age gearbox then ecu gotta change too isn't that so??

 

[TRD.AE92]

Got my car back yesterday...cant rev high yet, but sure does feel the hp gain. engine sound is diff as well. will rev it up by next weekend after oil change, hopefully the hp gain is significant & more responsive. Can 4age 20v block fit 4afe head? which gearbox then? If need 4age gearbox then ecu gotta change too isn't that so??

What your car doing?
And yes... 20V block can fit with 4AFE head... gearbox you may choose which 1 you want to use, gear ratio 4.1 on 4AFE and 4.3 on 4age... But rest are all the same only.

 

[bernard74]

hi trd, sent my car for overhaul last week and change 4afe pistons to bluetop 4age 16v pistons...Im wondering if it's 'safe'. Hopefully no complications.

 

[normality78]

bernard, i think you're gonna dissapointed

 

[TRD.AE92]

bernard, i think you're gonna dissapointed

Ermm.... why sifoo say so? Mind to share?
But Bluetop piston into 4AFE... It may increase only about 2% only... Because both ratio are about the same only.