What are you driving now?

[marsha1l_v6]

What do you mean short wheel base and long wheel base?

Actually driving below 2.5k rpm is not that difficult just that its low end torque cannot be compared with that of City or Vios. Of course if I drive at 0-bar, I can still easily keep up with most NA cars.

Yep 2nd gear is actually fun enough.. 2nd gear seems better with my butt dyno but 3rd is just as fun hahaha

agreed on low end torque..cant compare with city or vios..either boost away from them or let them be ..hahaha

maybe he meant the length or distance between front/rear tyre to midpoint of your car. :hmmmm:

 

[RENESIS VIII]

What do you mean short wheel base and long wheel base?

Actually driving below 2.5k rpm is not that difficult just that its low end torque cannot be compared with that of City or Vios. Of course if I drive at 0-bar, I can still easily keep up with most NA cars.

Yep 2nd gear is actually fun enough.. 2nd gear seems better with my butt dyno but 3rd is just as fun hahaha

It is the distance between your front and rear wheel. For example, Wira had a longer wheel base than Satria. Generally, cars with longer wheel base are more stable at straights especially during higher speed but at corners, a shorter wheel base car will be quicker.

Okay, maybe your car felt something like Kancil when you are under 2500 rpm.

agreed on low end torque..cant compare with city or vios..either boost away from them or let them be ..hahaha

maybe he meant the length or distance between front/rear tyre to midpoint of your car. :hmmmm:

Almost correct but it is actually the distance between the front and rear wheel. That is wheelbase length.

 

[Nicholasng925]

agreed on low end torque..cant compare with city or vios..either boost away from them or let them be ..hahaha

maybe he meant the length or distance between front/rear tyre to midpoint of your car. :hmmmm:

Can la drive at 0-bar still can keep up haha! Meaning if I drive at 0-bar, it's almost similar to flooring the NA City or Vios. I actually checked on dyno machine before, when the tuner maintained the throttle at 0-bar. The graph is similar to a NA car with 125whp.

It is the distance between your front and rear wheel. For example, Wira had a longer wheel base than Satria. Generally, cars with longer wheel base are more stable at straights especially during higher speed but at corners, a shorter wheel base car will be quicker.

Okay, maybe your car felt something like Kancil when you are under 2500 rpm.

Almost correct but it is actually the distance between the front and rear wheel. That is wheelbase length.

Oh ya! Never thought of the wheel base but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining Renesis! No la Kancil is even worse hahahah! It's rare to keep my car below 2k rpm (mostly only after shifting that the rpm will drop below 2k), beyond 2k it's actually pretty easy to drive Have to shift quickly to increase speed yet not to rev it beyond 3k rpm.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Can la drive at 0-bar still can keep up haha! Meaning if I drive at 0-bar, it's almost similar to flooring the NA City or Vios. I actually checked on dyno machine before, when the tuner maintained the throttle at 0-bar. The graph is similar to a NA car with 125whp.



Oh ya! Never thought of the wheel base but it makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining Renesis! No la Kancil is even worse hahahah! It's rare to keep my car below 2k rpm (mostly only after shifting that the rpm will drop below 2k), beyond 2k it's actually pretty easy to drive Have to shift quickly to increase speed yet not to rev it beyond 3k rpm.

0 bar means no boost at all? If no boost, still can run properly?

No problem. So, the boost lag under 2k rpm means nothing much to you since you rarely keep it below 2k rpm.

 

[marsha1l_v6]

Can la drive at 0-bar still can keep up haha! Meaning if I drive at 0-bar, it's almost similar to flooring the NA City or Vios. I actually checked on dyno machine before, when the tuner maintained the throttle at 0-bar. The graph is similar to a NA car with 125whp.
.

not if you have heavy body. have not yet dyno my car..maybe later

0 bar means no boost at all? If no boost, still can run properly?

No problem. So, the boost lag under 2k rpm means nothing much to you since you rarely keep it below 2k rpm.

yup..no boost..like driving NA only and yes can run properly. but if you high speed cruising, need to control throttle to maintain 0bar

 

[sweelt]

Cannot positive boost from north to south.... Siput masak

 

[Nicholasng925]

0 bar means no boost at all? If no boost, still can run properly?

No problem. So, the boost lag under 2k rpm means nothing much to you since you rarely keep it below 2k rpm.

not if you have heavy body. have not yet dyno my car..maybe later

yup..no boost..like driving NA only and yes can run properly. but if you high speed cruising, need to control throttle to maintain 0bar

Yep like what marsha said, still can run properly without boost. This zero-to-negative boost area is also known as vacuum area, similar to NA cars.

I guess the effect of heaviness is even more tangible in Perdana, Neo is only about 1.2 tonne hahaha!

Cannot positive boost from north to south.... Siput masak

For sure cannot! Cruise only most of the time, only boost when overtaking

 

[jebatdex]

My ride for the past 10 years, from when I was single until now father of 2. Everything is still stock, even replacement of parts I tried to get an original proton if available. Last time, got an accident took me quite some time to get the original foglamp (used of course):

 

[RENESIS VIII]

yup..no boost..like driving NA only and yes can run properly. but if you high speed cruising, need to control throttle to maintain 0bar

Hmm, wouldn't the car feel weird if drive without boost? In NA engine, the air enters from air filter and went straight on into the throttle body but for turbo, the air still need to go into the compressor and travel through the intercooler before reaching the throttle body. Such a long path for the air to take and since there is no boost at all, I guess the compressor is not sucking in air strongly like when there is boost?

Yep like what marsha said, still can run properly without boost. This zero-to-negative boost area is also known as vacuum area, similar to NA cars.

I guess the effect of heaviness is even more tangible in Perdana, Neo is only about 1.2 tonne hahaha!



For sure cannot! Cruise only most of the time, only boost when overtaking

Run without boost probably can help you to save more fuel.

Are you adjusting boost on the go inside your car with boost controller?

View attachment 566588

My ride for the past 10 years, from when I was single until now father of 2. Everything is still stock, even replacement of parts I tried to get an original proton if available. Last time, got an accident took me quite some time to get the original foglamp (used of course):

Still looks nice. I see that you are having rear disc brakes. Satria 1.6?

 

[jebatdex]

Still looks nice. I see that you are having rear disc brakes. Satria 1.6?

Yeah, 1996 1.6L.. 20 years now. Not giving much problem. As I can remember, parts that I have replaced are alternator (kong already, did not charge, ok la after 20 years), radiator hoses, plug cable, and add some battery negative cables (plus all parts for maintenance of course). Other than that, its all stock. I like it that way. Maybe wana swap engine later but after get another family car..

 

[Nicholasng925]

Hmm, wouldn't the car feel weird if drive without boost? In NA engine, the air enters from air filter and went straight on into the throttle body but for turbo, the air still need to go into the compressor and travel through the intercooler before reaching the throttle body. Such a long path for the air to take and since there is no boost at all, I guess the compressor is not sucking in air strongly like when there is boost?

Run without boost probably can help you to save more fuel.

Are you adjusting boost on the go inside your car with boost controller?

Nope not at all. The car works just as usual without boost, you can treat the boost as an additional amount of air pushing into the throttle body. Now you can imagine, with boost the suction of air into the air filter is way stronger than without.

Running without boost definitely saves more fuel than with boost. But for lighter cars such as bolt-on Myvis, running with boost might save more fuel. It really depends. Sometimes it's not about the boost level but the rpm. The best rpm for fuel efficiency should be around 2.4k, but less than 3k.

I have a Works Engineering manual boost controller under the car bonnet.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Yeah, 1996 1.6L.. 20 years now. Not giving much problem. As I can remember, parts that I have replaced are alternator (kong already, did not charge, ok la after 20 years), radiator hoses, plug cable, and add some battery negative cables (plus all parts for maintenance of course). Other than that, its all stock. I like it that way. Maybe wana swap engine later but after get another family car..

These old mitsubishi engines are quite reliable. But I heard people saying 4G9 engines are not as reliable as 4G1 engine. But looks like yours is quite good. Manual?

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Nope not at all. The car works just as usual without boost, you can treat the boost as an additional amount of air pushing into the throttle body. Now you can imagine, with boost the suction of air into the air filter is way stronger than without.

Running without boost definitely saves more fuel than with boost. But for lighter cars such as bolt-on Myvis, running with boost might save more fuel. It really depends. Sometimes it's not about the boost level but the rpm. The best rpm for fuel efficiency should be around 2.4k, but less than 3k.

I have a Works Engineering manual boost controller under the car bonnet.

I see. So even at 0 boost, I think the compressor is still sucking in air like usual, just not at high intensity/pressure like it is during boost.

So when adjusting boost, you need to adjust it by opening your bonnet or you can do it from interior?

 

[jebatdex]

These old mitsubishi engines are quite reliable. But I heard people saying 4G9 engines are not as reliable as 4G1 engine. But looks like yours is quite good. Manual?

yeah manual, and yes I forgot, i change the gearbox already once, 2 years back, bearing problem. Long story for my gearbox problem, happened its just bearing problem, meaning if change bearing should be fine (some sound coming out), unfortunately that time I did not find the correct gearbox specialist and I went to the wrong workshop and he con me. I go through all Tribunal Pengguna thing and got back my money (fuh!).

For me, its quite reliable. IMHO, any old Mitsu engines, if maintained should be OK. Depends on many factors such as maintenance, driving style, usage etc..

 

[Nicholasng925]

I see. So even at 0 boost, I think the compressor is still sucking in air like usual, just not at high intensity/pressure like it is during boost.

So when adjusting boost, you need to adjust it by opening your bonnet or you can do it from interior?

One more thing to add, I think even though the path taken by the air for turbocharged cars is slightly longer than NA cars, they are quite efficient so one will barely feel the path difference. Of course the piping length and design will make a difference between two turbocharged cars, ceteris paribus.

Most of the time people don't really adjust boost levels, just decide on one intended boost setting and forget about it. You can always drive below that boost level should you just want to relax and cruise. Your throttle pedal is the key.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

yeah manual, and yes I forgot, i change the gearbox already once, 2 years back, bearing problem. Long story for my gearbox problem, happened its just bearing problem, meaning if change bearing should be fine (some sound coming out), unfortunately that time I did not find the correct gearbox specialist and I went to the wrong workshop and he con me. I go through all Tribunal Pengguna thing and got back my money (fuh!).

For me, its quite reliable. IMHO, any old Mitsu engines, if maintained should be OK. Depends on many factors such as maintenance, driving style, usage etc..

Woah, tribunal case. Then you probably have heard before of DanzEterna and all his tribunal case? Since you are an old ZTH member and Danz posted quite a lot of stories regarding tribunal. So at the end you got back your money and bought another gearbox?

I agree. old Mitsubishi engines are quite tough and can withstand a lot of things even when not very well maintained. Well, since they are quite a big player in heavy industry machinery field, I'm sure their experience and expertise helped them a lot when they are manufacturing car engines. Besides, old Proton during 80s and 90s still uses a lot of parts directly from Mitsubishi themselves and I believe quality control is also better back then. After 90s era, I guess that is where Proton start to go downhill in terms of quality control.

One more thing to add, I think even though the path taken by the air for turbocharged cars is slightly longer than NA cars, they are quite efficient so one will barely feel the path difference. Of course the piping length and design will make a difference between two turbocharged cars, ceteris paribus.

Most of the time people don't really adjust boost levels, just decide on one intended boost setting and forget about it. You can always drive below that boost level should you just want to relax and cruise. Your throttle pedal is the key.

Well, since the path for the intake air to travel is longer, I thought perhaps on lower or 0 boost, the car might feel laggy because the pressure is not there to force the air to move quickly.

Oh, I actually thought you can set it to like 0 boost if you want.

 

[Nicholasng925]

Well, since the path for the intake air to travel is longer, I thought perhaps on lower or 0 boost, the car might feel laggy because the pressure is not there to force the air to move quickly.

Oh, I actually thought you can set it to like 0 boost if you want.

You are right in a way, for negative boost levels. The laggy feeling is the same as the reduction of low end torque, meaning it is not as responsive at low rpm as compared to City and Vios or even Myvi. I tend to compare my car on vacuum area with City because my parents have two City's at home, so I am used to that kind of responsive low end torque. At 0-bar, my car feels good just like NA car to me.

Set it to 0-bar boost? Hahaha then what's the point of having a turbo setup? The minimum boost level I can set is aligned with my wastegate spring rate, which is 0.5 bar. Anything lower means my car is having a boost leak somewhere.

 

[RENESIS VIII]

You are right in a way, for negative boost levels. The laggy feeling is the same as the reduction of low end torque, meaning it is not as responsive at low rpm as compared to City and Vios or even Myvi. I tend to compare my car on vacuum area with City because my parents have two City's at home, so I am used to that kind of responsive low end torque. At 0-bar, my car feels good just like NA car to me.

Set it to 0-bar boost? Hahaha then what's the point of having a turbo setup? The minimum boost level I can set is aligned with my wastegate spring rate, which is 0.5 bar. Anything lower means my car is having a boost leak somewhere.

If the City you have at home is the one using CVT gearbox, then I think the low end torque response is very good as the gear ratio can be adjusted to suit lower RPM usage.

Wait, I think maybe I misunderstood you earlier when you mention 0 bar boost. You mean your engine will be running at 0-bar when it is under 2000rpm is it?

 

[Nicholasng925]

If the City you have at home is the one using CVT gearbox, then I think the low end torque response is very good as the gear ratio can be adjusted to suit lower RPM usage.

Wait, I think maybe I misunderstood you earlier when you mention 0 bar boost. You mean your engine will be running at 0-bar when it is under 2000rpm is it?

I think I should explain a bit more on the experience of driving a turbocharged car haha!

At idling (0% throttle), the boost level is -60 kPA.
At light throttle about 10-20%, the boost level will increase to maybe -40kPA to -20kPA.
At half throttle (50%), it will go up to 0-bar.

All these are vacuum area. Normally when we are driving with light load, we seldom drive past 0-bar because 0-bar is similar to a NA car (for me).

Beyond half throttle, the boost will start kicking in to positive region, and there's where all the fun are.

Cruising at normal speed (90-100km/h) doesn't require boost to sustain the speed so the reading may be around -40kPA. Cruising at higher speed to maybe 120km/h will demand higher pedal pressure at -20kPA. If I maintain my pedal at 0-bar, the maximum cruising speed will be around 130-140 km/h.

Any speed beyond, I will require some boost to help me sustain. I remember I was boosting 0.3-0.5 bar just to maintain my speed at 160km/h.

Back to your question, there is something called turbo spool or turbo lag. How quickly a turbo spool depends on many factors such as the size of turbine, the size of intercooler, piping length and design etc.

When my engine is running at below 2000rpm, the turbo is not spinning quick enough so the most it can go up to is 0-bar, but not able to generate sufficient boost until positive boost region.

I think someone else can help to explain a bit more hahaha! :sleep:

 

[lsm1991]

These old mitsubishi engines are quite reliable. But I heard people saying 4G9 engines are not as reliable as 4G1 engine. But looks like yours is quite good. Manual?

all also macam tanks.... 4g1x's were even simpler hence technically more reliable (most had minimal sensors)

old mitsu's... they tappet away, they tend leak but damn they last forever