Something wrong with this engine?

ddv_nk12 · Dec 4, 2011

Posting on behalf of my friend.

His Civic B20 VTEC idling sound. He says the car doesn't sound right but doesn't know what's wrong. He even does not know if there is really a problem. Just listen to the sound, He brought his camera as close as he could to capture the sound, so nothing much can be seen. Please comment if you think you know what's the problem. Thanks.

Again ignore this crap video. Just listen to the sound. Hehe.

Does this engine sound right? - YouTube

Izso · Dec 4, 2011

It sounds like a tractor. Tappets need adjusting? Or does it have a auto tensioner or whatever you call those things (I suddenly forgot the term)

Either way it sounds like the tappets need adjusting. If it does have that auto tensioner thingy, then it's possible the valves themselves need looking at. Worn or something.

cfphoon · Dec 4, 2011

most probably is the tappet sound and need to readjust to factory specs..

guest · Dec 5, 2011

something like my problem?mine idle bad..car wanna die....got pop pop sound at the exhaust...vibrates badly and worse.... speed can only reach 120km/h but felt like car speeding like 300km/h hahaha.....

ddv_nk12 · Dec 5, 2011

Izso said:
It sounds like a tractor. Tappets need adjusting? Or does it have a auto tensioner or whatever you call those things (I suddenly forgot the term)

Either way it sounds like the tappets need adjusting. If it does have that auto tensioner thingy, then it's possible the valves themselves need looking at. Worn or something.

Are you referring to hydraulic lash adjusters?

cfphoon said:
most probably is the tappet sound and need to readjust to factory specs..

Ok, I just told my friend that it's probably the tappet that needs adjustment. He said the faster he drives, the faster and more the sound. Meaning the faster he drives, the sound increases in frequency.
He said it over the phone like this, when idling its like tak...tak...tak....tak... and when driving fast its like taktaktaktak. You get what I mean? This thing is new to me. So, I can only relate what he told me.

Is it a major repair to readjust the tappets? Expensive? Anything to replace? Roughly how much?

And what I would like to know is what causes this to happen because I'm also having the same engine and don't want it to happen to me. Touch wood...

---------- Post added at 12:19 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:18 AM ----------

and where is this tappet thing?

---------- Post added at 12:27 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

Ok, i googled and found this:

Re: Tappet Noise - Exactly How To Fix It?
OK, here we go again.

The tappets sometimes clatter because they are gummed up with old oil or dirt from oil that hasn't been changed regularly enough.

This method is not guaranteed to work, but is cheaper than buying a pair of tappets far less than a full set. It also does not require the engine to be dismantled in any way.

Follow the method carefully, there are no short cuts.

1, Go and buy two oil filters and a gallon of diesel.

2, Run the engine until warm, switch it off.

3, Drain the oil and remove the filter.

4, Refit the drain plug, fit one of the new filters.

5, Put the diesel in the oil filler. Yup, thats right, fill the sump with diesel. No honest, thats exactly what I mean. Its a thin oil, do not panic.

6, Start the car, DO NOT USE THE ACCELERATOR AT ALL.

7, Run the car, you may increase the engine speed to a fast idle. No more than slightly above idle. About 10 - 15 minutes will do it.

8, Drain the diesel from the sump, have a look at how dirty it is. Diesel contains detergents. Remove the oil filter.

9, Let it all drip out, do not rush.

10, When its all out, refit the sump plug and fit your second filter.

11, Fil with good quality 10/40 or 15/40 oil.

12, Start and drive. If the tappets are quieter, all well and good. If not, then either live with the noise or replace them.

Cheers

got this from Technical: Tappet Noise - Exactly How To Fix It? *UPDATED* - The FIAT Forum

can this be done? if it was me, i wouldn't.

Izso · Dec 5, 2011

Hydraulic lash adjusters! yes yes.. that's the term. Does Vtec engines have auto lash adjusters? If not you need to adjust them to factory spec or whatever spec that makes it quieter. Tappets are those things that knock on the valve to open them. The spring itself is what closes the valve.

If the clearance between the tappet and the valve is too much, you'll have that tapping sound. If it's too close, the valve might not close properly which is bad too. Either way you need to have a look at it.

Diesel oil can be used in a car, no problem. But whats the point? If you're using fully synthetic oil it's already a super good cleaner. Alternatively you can flush your engine with CRC not corrosive engine flush and a flushing oil. It won't do anything to reduce tappet noise la. But a good oil might quieten the engine though.

ddv_nk12 · Dec 5, 2011

Izso said:
Hydraulic lash adjusters! yes yes.. that's the term. Does Vtec engines have auto lash adjusters? If not you need to adjust them to factory spec or whatever spec that makes it quieter. Tappets are those things that knock on the valve to open them. The spring itself is what closes the valve.

If the clearance between the tappet and the valve is too much, you'll have that tapping sound. If it's too close, the valve might not close properly which is bad too. Either way you need to have a look at it.

Diesel oil can be used in a car, no problem. But whats the point? If you're using fully synthetic oil it's already a super good cleaner. Alternatively you can flush your engine with CRC not corrosive engine flush and a flushing oil. It won't do anything to reduce tappet noise la. But a good oil might quieten the engine though.

I also don't know if VTEC engines have auto lash adjusters. Hope any one familiar with VTEC engines can shed some light.

But to my understanding, if the cars have auto lash adjusters, we can't adjust them as they will be auto adjusted which means some passage is blocked or something like that. I might be wrong but this is based on what I've read in other forums but I don't know if it's related or not.

As for the engine oil, he's using fully synthetic oil. He told me that he had this tappet noise before. After servicing, there were no noise already. But after a few thousand km, the noise came back.

Pity him, now it's been 2 weeks he didn't drive out his car. He doesn't want to take any risk. Is it ok if he uses the car in this condition?

Is this an expensive repair? Any parts to be replaced? Because both of us don't quite understand the "tappet readjustment" term. I mean the process of how it is done and what are the things involved.

Thank you for your time and patience.

AD_EG · Dec 5, 2011

bro from the video i cant really tell for sure but its most likely tappet sound.

anyway, most important ....make sure the source of the sound is from the head and not the bottom side/block or belt area... if the sound is from the head i think not so much to worry about. he can drive the car. just need to adjust the valve lash...not so costly i think...not so sure..never got this done..

ddv_nk12 · Dec 5, 2011

Ok, thanks bro. Let me check with him. He's so worried he might worsen things and so he's taking public transport to work. Haha. He said wanna repair also scared because he's scared it will be expensive. Lol..

Izso · Dec 5, 2011

I'm not a Vtec expert. But if this was a 4G93, that has a auto lash adjuster so if that had this sort of sound, I'd check the adjuster itself and look at the valves. If the valve is worn out from the constant banging then it might actually be shorter than usual causing this noise.

A worn out tappet won't be the end of the world la. Just not advisable to open vtec in this condition as you might worsen it. Bring the car to a mech la

xtremeleo · Dec 5, 2011

what happened previously dat lead to this noisy tapping? a lot of things can produce it in an engine bay, once i tot my hydraulic lifters were producing similar noise as what u can hear in the vid, upon further inspection, i found the fan belt tensioner bearing was at fault. changed dat and everything was good, it really sounded like the noise was coming from the engine head

ddv_nk12 · Dec 5, 2011

He can't identify from where the sound is coming from.

I also told him just send to the mech and check. He just got this car 2 months back and having some difficulty financially at the moment. I told him with the video it's difficult to identify the real problem. He just wants to know roughly how much to repair. I told him we don't even know what's the problem, how to quote. Hehe.

zane_al · Dec 5, 2011

Leaking head gasket can also cause the problem/noise.

ftzone · Dec 5, 2011

VTEC B-series is manual adjusted lash..

Izso · Dec 5, 2011

ftzone said:
VTEC B-series is manual adjusted lash..

Ah... meaning if his engine is B-Series, just a manual adjusting will cost about RM30 to RM50 only. About an hours job if the mech is slow. Otherwise it'll be about 30 minutes.

ddv_nk12 · Dec 5, 2011

Thank you all. Will inform him about this. Could there be other possibilities? I see some said could be the fan belt tensioner and leaking head gasket.

ddv_nk12 · Dec 12, 2011

Hey guys, updates on this issue. My friend went to check over the weekend with a few mechs. 2 of them said it's the hydraulic that needs to be changed, all 8 must be changed. I don't know what's that, so I'm checking with you guys here. One guy quoted RM400 just for the hydraulic. Another guy quoted RM500 for the hydraulic including installation. The third mech said it was the VTEC lifter or something like that. But he also mentioned that all 8 must be changed. I don't know if they're the same. But the price really differs. The third mech quoted RM700 for 8 lifters and RM280 for labour.

When my friend said the tappet needs to be adjusted, apparently the mechs said it's not that.

Any idea how much is the hydraulic and VTEC lifter? Maybe it would be cheaper to buy it elsewhere.

Thanks.

lewis26 · Dec 12, 2011

what hydraulic those mech refering??
for hydraulic lifter, Honda B & H -Series don't use this with the simple reason hydraulic lifters and aggressive cam profiles are not too a happy combination so both series use solid lifters.

unless they refering to the hydraulic control that actuates a synchronizing pin to lock or unlock the middle rocker arm.

Izso · Dec 13, 2011

Yeah, I agree with lewis26. I don't think it's the controller cuz he referred to "8 pieces", that sounds like the lifters themselves.

ddv : Have a lookt at this : How VTEC works - YouTube

The tapping noise is probably caused by too much clearance between the lifter and camshaft lobe. The tappet will push the valve down to open it and that tapping noise is what I suspect is causing the problem.

You should have someone just inspect the lifters and valves itself. If there's obvious wear on the tappet or the valve then either one of those need changing. You probably can get half-cut parts for less than RM300?

How old is the car? Pay someone to re-adjustable the tappets first me thinks.

---------- Post added at 10:00 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

oh btw, if it is worn valve / tappets, it's not the end of the world. I just recommend not vtec-ing often. Just drive slower until he can afford to replace them.

ddv_nk12 · Dec 13, 2011

Ok, my friend has sent me a pic which he said the thing that one of the mech showed him looks like this. Please see the attachment. When i googled about this, I can see that there's difference between the solid lifters and hydraulic lifters. So, i asked my friend about this, he said he's not sure. But he saw that the mech kept it in oil and the oil could go through the lifter.

And since 8 pieces has to be changes, Iszo said it can't be the controller which must mean it's the lifters.

But, is it confirmed that B-series use hydraulic lifters? Then why do they all say its the hydraulic lifter that needs to be changed? Or do these mechs plan to take my friend for a ride?

Btw, its a 93 EG. Yes Iszo, it was a great relief for my friend when the mech said can still use the car. Hehe.

Ok, I will tell him to go try find someone else to adjust the lifters first since its so cheap. But Iszo, u said RM300 for used lifters and these mech said RM400 for new lifters. Again, are they trying to cheat my friend?

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