Phantom Grip

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

I heard recently powerzone is bring in Phantom Grip lsds.
So just wondering how much would it cost and roughly how does it work? Is it the same principle in theory like the typical clutch lsd except the 2 friction blocks is located inbetween the sun gears?
Currently the Phantom Grip is available for what makes?
Reading from the website i heard it's possible to adapt it to other makes of cars and 4wd. Would Powerzone willing to undertake it other cars?
Btw is this manufactured locally or brought in overseas?
Cheers.

 

[Powerzone]

Well, actually we didn't import any Phantom Grip LSD conversion kit. We design and make our very own PowerZone "Malaysia Boleh" local version.
Works the same way. Check out Phantom's website to know how it works, although it is already well-explained in this current issue of Hypertune (we're not paid to say this)!

What you said, "Is it the same principle in theory like the typical clutch lsd except the 2 friction blocks is located in between the sun gears?" is absolutely right.

Yes, we can make it for any car makes/models. We need the diff. unit from your car and 2 weeks to complete. So far, we've ready stock for Proton/Mitsu 1.3/1.5 MT.

Cost around RM575 with installation, real low cost (compare Phantom Grip priced at SIN$400-500 ex-S'pore, not including freight charges, taxes, and installation)! This is a real steal!

 

[jinkl]

is it available for 63t box ?

 

[Glocker]

Originally posted by Powerzone@Feb 20 2005, 00:57
Well, actually we didn't import any Phantom Grip LSD conversion kit. We design and make our very own PowerZone "Malaysia Boleh" local version.
Works the same way. Check out Phantom's website to know how it works, although it is already well-explained in this current issue of Hypertune (we're not paid to say this)!

What you said, "Is it the same principle in theory like the typical clutch lsd except the 2 friction blocks is located in between the sun gears?" is absolutely right.

Yes, we can make it for any car makes/models. We need the diff. unit from your car and 2 weeks to complete. So far, we've ready stock for Proton/Mitsu 1.3/1.5 MT.

Cost around RM575 with installation, real low cost (compare Phantom Grip priced at SIN$400-500 ex-S'pore, not including freight charges, taxes, and installation)! This is a real steal!

Hello, would like to inquire a few things.

Would the grip and handling be dramatically improved? Also, do you make it for Hondas? What about any warranties?

 

[Powerzone]

We have not actually done any standard measurement tests on the grip on slippery surface, but we've done some sprint tests to see if the amount of wheel spin during take off is reduced. So far, tests on 2 Wira's, a Saga, and a Satria GTi are positive.
The other driving tests we've done is flooring the gas pedal upon exiting sharp corners. That too showed good acceleration and better grip, with good steering control.
We can do for almost any cars, but if stock is not available we need 2 weeks to get one out.
We don't offer warranty as this is a wear and tear item, like clutch and brake friction materials.
Probably ninja_iga can share his experience on the PZ LSD as he has one in his diff. Well, ninja?

 

[Battousai]

http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/accessories/lsd

Look who else uses this style of LSD. :ph34r:

 

[sexycar]

can u make one for ae86 rear wheel lsd axle diff too? if can how much
would it be?

 

[ninja_iga]

hehehehehe

actually aR :P
it's SUPPOSED to be TOP SecRET !! :mellow:

but nevermind la, secret's out already,

with the Powerzone's 'phantom grip LSD' my car's response is:
-alot more traction!!
-powering outta handbrake turns now are alot faster now, since the LSD actually (duh) turns the outside wheel MORE than last time, when it used to spin the inside wheel ONLY. now? heheehehe
- powering outta 90 deg corners now doesn't give that feel of losing power to slippage (sound like ng-ng-ng-ng) now it's GO!!!! *driver being yanked to direction of turn) muahahahaaha

now it's just a matter of driver adaption to the new characteristic of the LSD.. hehehe definately WORTH it to re-learn some driving to suit the handling now..!

 

[Powerzone]

Originally posted by sexycar@Feb 27 2005, 12:45
can u make one for ae86 rear wheel lsd axle diff too? if can how much
would it be?

We can make one only if the diff is a standard open type (without any original LSD). Would cost around RM575.

 

[Powerzone]

ninja_iga:

I didn't mentioned which car you have it on....??? Don't blow the whistle on yourself!
"One must always think deep and long b4 announcing one's mind." by Con-few-shots.

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

My only concern is which part of the diff is most likely to wear more.
I assume the sun gear which comes in contact with the lsd should be prone to wear. Am i correct?
Another thing are we limited to 1 rate of springs or we can specify harder/ softer springs?
What oil do u guys specify btw? Normal gear oil or lsd oil?
Now the million dollar question... I cant find an exploded pic of a Nissan viscous lsd diff but the thing is that in theory is it possible to fabricate a phantom grip for it? The thing is i dont mind doing one for it if i can find a spare rear axle. U think it's a good idea?


Aiyah this Ninja fellar..... Normally they are the most discreet ppl in the world with the exception of this "inga"....

 

[sexycar]

Originally posted by Powerzone+Feb 28 2005, 14:51 -->

QUOTE (Powerzone @ Feb 28 2005, 14:51 )

--QuoteBegin-sexycar

@Feb 27 2005, 12:45 can u make one for ae86 rear wheel lsd axle diff too? if can how much would it be?

We can make one only if the diff is a standard open type (without any original LSD). Would cost around RM575. [/b][/quote] cool... then I would just pass u a non-lsd levin ae86 rear axle diff & u could do it all for $575 with installation? And also same question as BabyGod.. what kinda rear diff gear oil would I have to use with the phantom equipped rear diff later?

 

[Powerzone]

Yes, that's right.

With the LSD, we recommend using SAE50 monograde engine oil for non-hypoid gears (FWD), and SAE80/90 gear oil for hypoid gears (RWD). FYI, Honda MT uses normal engine oil.

BabyGodzillaGTi-R: The LSD steel material is hardened but is softer than the original sun gear, so it should wear out to preserve the sun gear. It's akin to the clutch friction disc that you'd have to replace after it's worn out. But it'd take quite a long time to wear out, and since the spring action is kind of self-renewing the effectiveness of the LSD plates, a little wear and tear doesn't actually lessen the grip.

The spring rating selected is based on coil size, free length and compressed length, and wire diameter. It's not possible to overgrip the gears as the contact area is relatively small, so a harder spring is more effective.

FYI, the viscous LSD is normally installed between the front and rear axle and is in the so-called 3rd diff. We don't normally find it in the front or rear diff that are more commonly fitted with the Torsen type or clutch type.

BTW, a diff that already has an LSD cannot be fitted with our kit.

 

[Powerzone]

Originally posted by Battousai@Feb 27 2005, 11:04
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/accessories/lsd

Look who else uses this style of LSD. :ph34r:

Thanks for the web link. It just shows that even professionals doing mods on the Mercs rely on this simple but effective technology. So it makes sense!

 

[sexycar]

ok... one/two more things to check with you... would there be any noise
on the rear diff of my ae86 gearbox with the usage of this phantom grip
lsd of yours especially in corners, cruising or driving in any situation?
And how is the installation process like ... i need to know how u deal
with the technical aspects of the installation like gear shimming (if any),
alignments, dial gauge & tools that u have for installation. As I know
if the rear diff is messed up by improper installation, the car would go
drifting on its own... :lol:
Let us know more please... this is trully a nice product & i wanna know
more indepth :)

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

What i had in mind is the phantom grip to be installed in the rear of my Nissan. But like i said, i'm not sure what's it like inside the rear diff and it has a stamp on the outside which says viscious lsd.
I notice that quite a few performance Nissan out of the factory came with a so called viscious lsd which doesn't seem to limit any slip.
Yes i do understand the thing is meant for open diffs but the thing is i'm led to believe that the so call nissan viscious lsd still has a diff built in so i'm wondering if it's possible.
Will try to drop by if i'm free.
So i take it we can specify harder springs for better locking%?

 

[Powerzone]

I'm no expert on Nissan, but from your info, it is fitted with the viscous LSD, which is rather a rare case. With viscous LSD, you don't feel the locking action, 'cos it only starts to work when there's a wheel spin, and it takes a while to come into effect. Check out TechTalk--Hypertune, 2 issues ago for explanation on this.

If you want to put in PZ LSD you need to find a standard open type diff from another Nissan family that can fit. The one in your car can't be modified. :(

 

[BabyGodzillaGTi-R]

I brought this up coz i noticed that in Oz that's what ppl seem to be doing with their GTi-R. Front and rear diff. Will try to dig more info on that.
That aside what i want is to set the car up for better turn in to progressive tail out oversteer on power.
But the funny bit is that in theory u want a tighter rear diff in a 4wd but in practice it seems that a lsd up front in a 4wd seems to be much more effective in dialing out understeer.
What's your opinion?

 

[Powerzone]

It's true in a sense 'cos you want excellent grip on the front, at the same time you want the rear to lose grip and spin all over. Even cars without rear LSD can drift nicely.

Let us know once you've done your spying on the OZ job.

 

[Battousai]

VIc: What you want might involve tuning of the centre diff. you don't want to be spinning either of the inside wheels on power out. But you do want to send more power to the back.