Kimi or Alonso?

[si|verfish]

True. Like I said, they are near equals. My gut tells me Kimi is faster :D (ignoring the fact that Montoya is better and faster than Fisi).

Anyway, there is no question who is the fastest man this year, Alonso never really pushed all that hard once he had the big lead. Always doing just enough, being defensive and safe most times. Yes it is the smart thing to do and yes he makes very sound decisions (which is why I liken him to Prost, very calculating type of driver), which is another reason why I don't like him as much (Go out and race for god sake! You're not some bloody banker or investor of some kind, You're a racing driver! Do some racing!). And because of that he doesn't shine as much and to be honest Kimi has stolen all the limelight if not the championship from him. So, even though he will leave this season World Champion (deservedly, it has to be said), it is Kimi who would leave with the better rep and cred.

 

[minivan]

true... look at monza yesterday. Montoya was having rear tyre problems and was lapping almost 2 seconds slower, but Alonso did'nt attack....

and remember last time when kimi made a fastest lap on the very last lap?!? most drivers would have already called it a day....

 

[si|verfish]

true... look at monza yesterday. Montoya was having rear tyre problems and was lapping almost 2 seconds slower, but Alonso did'nt attack....

Alonso said he did try to attack, although I think he did try half heartedly at best.

...and remember last time when kimi made a fastest lap on the very last lap?!? most drivers would have already called it a day....

That's Kimi and that's why I like him so much. He was pretty peeved that time, again because of all the bad luck he had, and I think he did it to put a point across and to give Alonso something to think about. It was like, "Look mate, if it wasn't for my dodgy luck, you'd be eating my brake dust all day..." or so I'd like to think.

 

[GT3]

Alonso said he did try to attack, although I think he did try half heartedly at best.


That's Kimi and that's why I like him so much. He was pretty peeved that time, again because of all the bad luck he had, and I think he did it to put a point across and to give Alonso something to think about. It was like, "Look mate, if it wasn't for my dodgy luck, you'd be eating my brake dust all day..." or so I'd like to think.

hmmm well its tough to tell if alonso did or did not try to attact.. coz the laptimes cant do much justise as its obvious the mclaren is by far the quickest car.. n a driver is limited to how good is his car.. if renault is destine to be half a sec or 1 sec slower than mclaren even u put the best driver in the world it wont be faster than mclaren..

btw if renault hav the fastest car now well alonso will be winning races like he were during early of this season.. u cant say alonso dint wan to drive fast or anything.. he is jus maximising what he can gain out of it.. thats why he always attact to get in to the top3 so he could be the first one to gain advantage when any1 hav any mishap

 

[si|verfish]

Yeah, like I said earlier, Alonso is a calculative driver who plays with percentage and probability first and foremost. Given a choice, he would do just enough to get ahead or if his chances are slim, stay on the defensive and not take risks. Nothing wrong with that, in fact that is why he is going to take the championship. But also because of this trait, in an outright battle of pace (given that the car is identical) he would be slower than someone like Raikonnen. Yes, it's just my opinion but I have my arguments.

Anyway, I just prefer outright racers. Alonso...he has got it in his head that the McLarens are faster so he would opt for second best straight away in his head. He's not the type of person that goes, "they have the faster car but hey what the heck I'll give them a run for all their money's worth...".

A slower car is a handicap, yes, but you can still race wheel to wheel with a faster car. Senna in a slower McLaren can out qualify and win head to heads against Mansell in a faster Renault (hehe, the irony). It is this indomitable spirit which I think only the truly brilliant ones share, like the Fangios, the Sennas, the Schumachers. And I think Kimi has this same trait.

 

[si|verfish]

I found some nice tidbits for everyone to chew on.

...Kimi Raikkonen has more natural talent than even Michael Schumacher... - David Coulthard

Whilst I agree Coulthard isn't the foremost expert in this regard, he is obviously better than us and he has seen both drivers up close. Link:http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/050903/23/dd4c.html

And some flattering comments from legend and mutiple time World Champion, Jackie Stewart.

...Raikkonen at the present time, I think, has already taken over the position of the dominant driver, even ahead of Schumacher and Alonso... - Jackie Stewart

and, he even has some nice things to say about Alonso.

...Alonso has got a very good mind for such a young person and I don't think his car is anything like as fast as the McLaren. But if he uses his head, and it's clear he does, then I think he will win the world championship... - Jackie Stewart

Looks like even a legend agrees with me ;).
Link:http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/050904/2/de4v.html

 

[GT3]

Yeah, like I said earlier, Alonso is a calculative driver who plays with percentage and probability first and foremost. Given a choice, he would do just enough to get ahead or if his chances are slim, stay on the defensive and not take risks. Nothing wrong with that, in fact that is why he is going to take the championship. But also because of this trait, in an outright battle of pace (given that the car is identical) he would be slower than someone like Raikonnen. Yes, it's just my opinion but I have my arguments.

Anyway, I just prefer outright racers. Alonso...he has got it in his head that the McLarens are faster so he would opt for second best straight away in his head. He's not the type of person that goes, "they have the faster car but hey what the heck I'll give them a run for all their money's worth...".

A slower car is a handicap, yes, but you can still race wheel to wheel with a faster car. Senna in a slower McLaren can out qualify and win head to heads against Mansell in a faster Renault (hehe, the irony). It is this indomitable spirit which I think only the truly brilliant ones share, like the Fangios, the Sennas, the Schumachers. And I think Kimi has this same trait.

hmmm well im not sure how do u come to the conclusion that he is not an outright racer.. erm if u recall in nurburgring.. alonso's car isnt anywhere as quick as kimi's and yet he dint give up n lapping consistently to give some sort of pressure to kimi n it did work..

and btw.. yea a slower car can win a faster car.. of coz it can.. but it depends on who is driving it.. i mean u do agreed both of them are at similiar level (even though u think kimi hav a slight edge).. therefore given a car that is far more superior(mclaren) would u think the slower car (renault) can win (exclude any reliability issues) if both drivers in it is equally quick or not much in diff? the examples u mention well yea they are good.. really brilliant.. but some of their real rivals dint really appear when they were doing it.. and if u insist on the way u put it.. well why kimi who is such a good driver could not beat ferrari driven by MS or RB so often during ferrari's peak? coz if i m not wrong MS have beaten far superior cars like williams in his bennetton era day in day out and in his ferrari day he always did the impossibles (by beating them) even to his real rival mika who had the faster car.. (haha.. sorry abit exaggerating but u get what i mean)

 

[si|verfish]

...hmmm well im not sure how do u come to the conclusion that he is not an outright racer...

Just my definition of an outright racer. Alonso isn't.

...erm if u recall in nurburgring.. alonso's car isnt anywhere as quick as kimi's and yet he dint give up n lapping consistently to give some sort of pressure to kimi n it did work...

Alonso was miles away from Kimi before he had that tyre problem. What gave you the idea that Kimi was under pressure? He went off? That was more due too Kimi being a bit over enthusiastic. Kimi is the sort of person who keeps pushing constantly, Ron Dennis himself said it was difficult to rein in Kimi and ask him to take it easy when he has a big lead because he always wants to push. That fastest lap he did during the last lap being an example of the sort of person he is.

...yea a slower car can win a faster car.. of coz it can.. but it depends on who is driving it.. i mean u do agreed both of them are at similiar level (even though u think kimi hav a slight edge).. therefore given a car that is far more superior(mclaren) would u think the slower car (renault) can win (exclude any reliability issues) if both drivers in it is equally quick or not much in diff?...

Ok, lets just say I believe if the tables are turned, Kimi would be more aggresive going after Alonso. Again, just my gut feeling. I'm not saying Alonso should win wheel to wheel against Raikonnen, just that he should have given a better fight. Instead of settling for second best so fast.

...the examples u mention well yea they are good.. really brilliant.. but some of their real rivals dint really appear when they were doing it...

Don't understand you here.

well why kimi who is such a good driver could not beat ferrari driven by MS or RB so often during ferrari's peak? coz if i m not wrong MS have beaten far superior cars like williams in his bennetton era day in day out and in his ferrari day he always did the impossibles (by beating them) even to his real rival mika who had the faster car.. (haha.. sorry abit exaggerating but u get what i mean)

Schumacher at his best, driving by far the best car on the field (including reliability), would have taken some beating, even with a Mika at his prime with a great McLaren car would have a hard time trying to beat Schumacher. A young, up and rising driver in a team in the midst of a whole lot of restructuring and rebuilding? Would have been a miracle. But then, Kimi did take the fight to Schumacher (2 or 3 seasons back? Couldn't remember) and barring some bad luck would have been World Champion. Schumacher's emergence coincided with the waning of a great generation featuring Mansell, Prost, Senna, Piquet and Lauda. When he was ready to challenge for honours all the greats have left the sport. Schumacher was lucky (or just a lot better) that he had no real peers in his class, Damon? Jacques? Not really. Mika being the only person who could have given him a challenge.

 

[GT3]

Just my definition of an outright racer. Alonso isn't.

Alonso was miles away from Kimi before he had that tyre problem. What gave you the idea that Kimi was under pressure? He went off? That was more due too Kimi being a bit over enthusiastic. Kimi is the sort of person who keeps pushing constantly, Ron Dennis himself said it was difficult to rein in Kimi and ask him to take it easy when he has a big lead because he always wants to push. That fastest lap he did during the last lap being an example of the sort of person he is.

Ok, lets just say I believe if the tables are turned, Kimi would be more aggresive going after Alonso. Again, just my gut feeling. I'm not saying Alonso should win wheel to wheel against Raikonnen, just that he should have given a better fight. Instead of settling for second best so fast.

Don't understand you here.

Schumacher at his best, driving by far the best car on the field (including reliability), would have taken some beating, even with a Mika at his prime with a great McLaren car would have a hard time trying to beat Schumacher. A young, up and rising driver in a team in the midst of a whole lot of restructuring and rebuilding? Would have been a miracle. But then, Kimi did take the fight to Schumacher (2 or 3 seasons back? Couldn't remember) and barring some bad luck would have been World Champion. Schumacher's emergence coincided with the waning of a great generation featuring Mansell, Prost, Senna, Piquet and Lauda. When he was ready to challenge for honours all the greats have left the sport. Schumacher was lucky (or just a lot better) that he had no real peers in his class, Damon? Jacques? Not really. Mika being the only person who could have given him a challenge.

well yea i think there is enuff discussion abt kimi n alonso here.. haha.. every1 hav their own view n obviously while we both may agree on some we couldnt agree on others so not much pt discussing abt it

however abt schumacher well i agree with u completely.. he is very very good and the only person that is at his level to me is mika and not any other drivers including the newer generation drivers.. it would take yrs or nvr to hav some1 archieve what he had archieve

 

[si|verfish]

Well Raikonnen and Alonso looks promising enough. Although that said, if both of them can reach the peaks that they are capable of, their co-existence will never allow them to shatter as many records as Schumacher, being in each others way.

 

[Toyminator]

i still hope alonso win....lor
bcoz he is best driver....

 

[minivan]

i still hope alonso win....lor

dude.... he most probaly is gonna win. So u don't have to hope so much..

bcoz he is best driver....

where is your rethoric / proof of this? lets hear it for dicussion purposes...

 

[abdullah]

alonso isn't as bloody real fighters as raikkonen for several reasons....coz he has a comfortable lead in points....and he has must has taken notice about reliability of mclaren. fernando's last year car was not very reliable so he must be sitting comfortably in his car this year after such a great reliability of his car. well as human being alonso counld feel easy this year due to so many probs that had hit raikkonen and he mustn't want that to happen to him. He has a better engine, more power, more top speed n more torque also very reliable while kimi has such a fragile engine. diz is maybe due to kimi's aggressiveness. but he doesn't change dat a little bit and his engine haven't improved either so bad luck to him lah. while alonso has been putting less fire in his race performance lately n i m suprised by this. but alonso has been very aggressive in the previous years so maybe he has matured more this year. He is like schuey who had managed to build the team around him. the team members r very dedicated so reliability is excellent. Mclaren has the best and most modern headquarters but the engine r shit. perhaps mercedes should built the engine in germany not britain to improve the reliability of the engine. it's a shame for merc in nurbugring to see raikkonen's engine let go. alonso is brutal but he is sitting pretty this year so he has eased up a little bit. I have a raw imagination 'bout alonso pairing with raikkonen in renault.....

 

[si|verfish]

Mate, try using proper sentence structure, commas and fullstops next time. Your post is near unfathomable.

 

[minivan]

I have a raw imagination 'bout alonso pairing with raikkonen in renault.....

For the time being, its hard to imagine kimi not in a mclaren. But its an interesting thought... what do you guys reckon?? do you think kimi and alonso would make good team mates?? :rolleyes:

 

[si|verfish]

About as well as Senna and Prost did.

 

[si|verfish]

Congratulations, the 2005 World Champion, Fernando Alonso.

May this be his first and last World Championship :p

 

[prodigy]

Yeah, congrats to Fernando Alonso. He's a great young driver and though i seriously think he didn't quite deserve to be crowned, he still did it. Credits should be given to his team for building a good and reliable car.

 

[BlackSamurai]

next year will be the debut of V8 engine. Let's see what surprises F1 can give to us.
Will a rev limited V10 Minaldi lap a V8 Renault? you will never know. :D

somehow i feel that next year WDC won't be Alonso or any Renault driver. This is just my personal feeling, it doens't based on any fact.

 

[si|verfish]

Granted the tyre problems are solved, Ferrari will be in the reckoning again. And Schumacher will have the last laugh.