Ignition timing & fuel map tuning...newbie here

[nan83]

Ignition timing & fuel map tuning...

hi...

Right know i'm on study how to tune an engine. And really hope pro tuner can teach me how to do proper engine tuning to get optimum power & safe.

right here i'm attach my new ignition map for stock 4g63t boost at 0.8bar. I'm not upload the ignition yet to my ecu coz i dun have knoking sensor(so cannot hear whether the car knock or not). I hope pro tuner can give a comment whether the timing to advance or not suitable for stock evo1 engine.

My new ign map
http://planet.time.net.my/Sepang/nan83/ign_map.JPG


I also hope you can teach me on fuel map tuning.... at which rpm @ load we need to lean,stoich and rich.


My last question, if we low down our engine temp. by using 68'C termostart, koyo radiator, 1.3bar cap, racing coolent & adjust cooling fan start temp.... so the engine will maintain temp at 68'c right. compare to stock at 80+'C, which will produce more power if do fully tune for 68'C engine or 80+'C engine??

*if pro tuner have a tuning manual, i want to buy it.. plz pm me

thx to all

 

[Joeker]

..........Right know i'm on study how to tune an engine..........

I also hope you can teach me on fuel map tuning......at which rpm @ load we need to lean,stoich and rich...........

.....if pro tuner have a tuning manual, i want to buy it......

Errrr.......from your questions, I think you'd better pay tuners to do it for you.

But if you still insist to do yourself, it will be good idea to save towtruck driver's h/p no. into your h/p's memory.

 

[kennethfong]

lol, joeker u jahat lar haha.....

nan, there are good reasons why the engineers calculate engine warm up completes its duty at the point of 72-80 Celsius.... there are some performance thermostat available where it opens earlier than stock, but those were only good for use on track racing where the engine is always stressed to the max.....

i dun think u can learn this easily, and i dunno what is ur current knowledge of level at the moment so dunno how to teach u, but based on ur questions i think u dunno what is a wideband? why not pay someone to do it and curi learn from him.....

 

[Joeker]

there are good reasons why the engineers calculate engine warm up completes its duty at the point of 72-80 Celsius....

Thermostat is not just for cold starts, it is there to regulate coolant temp so that engine cylinder maintains within a temp. range for optimum combustion.

Engine efficency is at highest within certain temp range. (need to dig out my text book to remember those temp. figures).

 

[kennethfong]

yep joeker, thanks for the add-on, ur right.....

 

[schargeD_93]

tumpang tread... hehe

i oso wanna learn la... i got stock 4g93p with super charged... running on smt6... everytime when i left my car for about 4hrs, when i start and drive, it kinda wanna mati engine la... for e.g. when i start driving from car park... during the 1st and 2nd gear, sometimes it mati engine... i jst purchased the smt6 comm cable and d/loaded the smt6 s/ware... but no idea wat to do la... any sifu can help???

 

[GT_AUTO]

Thermostat is not just for cold starts, it is there to regulate coolant temp so that engine cylinder maintains within a temp. range for optimum combustion.

Engine efficency is at highest within certain temp range. (need to dig out my text book to remember those temp. figures).

yeah...ur right joeker.it is call ideal combustion temperature.there's a thread
about removing the thermostat from the engine in zth.some say it's ok but
i didn't agreed with it but i keep quite as i forgot how to explain it.later kena
shoot with m16,die.....hehehe

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

I also hope you can teach me on fuel map tuning.... at which rpm @ load we need to lean,stoich and rich.

well, from what i learn from hypertune techtalk... AFR at no boost can set abit towards lean (but not too much la, stoich is the best) for better fc... as boost spools up, its better to set it richer abit to avoid knocking, detonation and overheating... as fuel can be used as part of cooling system to quench away excessive heat developed in the engine....

ignition timing should be set abit more retard to avoid knocking and detonation... late ignition can also help overcome turbo lag... but this could be damaging to ur engine...

p/s: all the above are based on my 'pakai hantam' theory.... do correct me if i'm wrong... and do no fully take my words as me myself dont have prove on what i'm talking... pls consult an expert tuner for professional advice....

 

[nan83]

thanks for all... for your info, the basic about tuning i alredy know.. here i'm asking the advance tuning tip .. like at 0.8bar, how many degree ignition for optimum performance. Only pro tuner know the correct degree roughly.. than from the data, i can retard about 1-2 degree for safety purpose.

For the air fuel ratio, at my place have one workshop that have wideband sensor. So i'm borrow from him & do onroad tuning. Right know i set like below :

idle : 14.7
low rpm + cruising : 15-16
boosting :13.5-12
low rpm with some load : 14-15

i have no prob with air fuel ratio.... right know i wanna tweak the ignition map to optimum power, but dun have knock sensor ( like headphone, to hear knock while tuning).. So i'm scared of knocking that i canot hear...

For my current setting right know, it smooth... power oso okey lah... but still not optimum... i make the ignition map above to let tuner study & give a comment what's wrong with my map... ignition too low at hi boost or too hi degree at low rpm..
i hope tuner can share your knowledge about ignition timing data..

the ignition teory i already know like...
-retard at max torque
-retard while boost increase
-and etc..


emm.. for the thermostat, stock car use 80'C coz for environmental.. hi temp engine give less toxic gases & fuel cosumtion... if wrong plz correct me...
That's why i'm asking about racing termostat, low temp engine=more fuel=can advance ignition=less knoking=more pollution=less temp air intake temp. = more power??? or less power???

Thanks

 

[nan83]

tumpang tread... hehe

i oso wanna learn la... i got stock 4g93p with super charged... running on smt6... everytime when i left my car for about 4hrs, when i start and drive, it kinda wanna mati engine la... for e.g. when i start driving from car park... during the 1st and 2nd gear, sometimes it mati engine... i jst purchased the smt6 comm cable and d/loaded the smt6 s/ware... but no idea wat to do la... any sifu can help???

for yr prob,
need to do checkup whether the tuning or others prob.... normally, when do a cold start.. the ecu need to inject more fuel.

i also dunno now to use smt6... does it have cold start fuel enrichment?? if have try to add more fuel & monitor yr car.. if it not the prob, return back to the current setting...

 

[kennethfong]

thanks for all... for your info, the basic about tuning i alredy know.. here i'm asking the advance tuning tip .. like at 0.8bar, how many degree ignition for optimum performance. Only pro tuner know the correct degree roughly.. than from the data, i can retard about 1-2 degree for safety purpose.

For the air fuel ratio, at my place have one workshop that have wideband sensor. So i'm borrow from him & do onroad tuning. Right know i set like below :

idle : 14.7
low rpm + cruising : 15-16
boosting :13.5-12
low rpm with some load : 14-15

i have no prob with air fuel ratio.... right know i wanna tweak the ignition map to optimum power, but dun have knock sensor ( like headphone, to hear knock while tuning).. So i'm scared of knocking that i canot hear...

For my current setting right know, it smooth... power oso okey lah... but still not optimum... i make the ignition map above to let tuner study & give a comment what's wrong with my map... ignition too low at hi boost or too hi degree at low rpm..
i hope tuner can share your knowledge about ignition timing data..

the ignition teory i already know like...
-retard at max torque
-retard while boost increase
-and etc..


emm.. for the thermostat, stock car use 80'C coz for environmental.. hi temp engine give less toxic gases & fuel cosumtion... if wrong plz correct me...
That's why i'm asking about racing termostat, low temp engine=more fuel=can advance ignition=less knoking=more pollution=less temp air intake temp. = more power??? or less power???

Thanks

if u wan less knocking, should concentrate more on using colder plug range.... as said an engine is always best run at certain degrees of temperature too..... also one thing to take note every engine is unique to its AFR and Ignition knocking limit.....

u can try DIY (if u like to diy) a set of knock amplifier, or u can buy a HKS knock amplifier, but it's expensive and doesn't worth the money IMHO, it's just a mini amplifier with HKS headphone with pickup device attached to ur engine block........

 

[monmon]

sounds good to me that someone is really wanting to learn the art of tuning. but only to say good luck and keep it up. i hope to see a serious tuner one day, and not ppl who sets timing with no gears but by ear only. I'm not confident with tuners in Malaysia, can't mention names obviously, or if they know something, they would become the cockiest tuner in town.

pm me, and perhaps we could meet up, and i'll see if i can share something with u, either from my head or my books.

 

[GT_AUTO]

For the air fuel ratio, at my place have one workshop that have wideband sensor. So i'm borrow from him & do onroad tuning. Right know i set like below :
's wrong with my map... ignition too low at hi boost or too hi degree at low

u borrow from ali ar???

 

[nan83]

sounds good to me that someone is really wanting to learn the art of tuning. but only to say good luck and keep it up. i hope to see a serious tuner one day, and not ppl who sets timing with no gears but by ear only. I'm not confident with tuners in Malaysia, can't mention names obviously, or if they know something, they would become the cockiest tuner in town.

pm me, and perhaps we could meet up, and i'll see if i can share something with u, either from my head or my books.

thanks man.. hope can meet you soon. but the distance a bit far, i'm from kelantan.. huhu. if i'm going there, i will contact u..

 

[nan83]

u borrow from ali ar???

yup... from ali. but not just borrow, need to pay oso.. hehehe

he drive my car & i'm do the tuning... but still not fine tune, just a rough tuning.. fine tuning take times & need to monitor the engine & logging.. for full throttle tuning still not good.. need to dyno it to get the max power @ safe afr..

for ignition tuning still not complete.. i dun have knoking sensor & EGT ... i'm scare if too retard at hi boost, the exaust temp will up and damage the turbine & manifold... if too advance it will knock.. hot spot in the engine also danger to yr engine.. it will cause pre-ignition..

any pro tuner here want to share some tuning art here... :regular_smile:

 

[GT_AUTO]

bro nan,buy ur own wide band lar.nowadays cheap already.somore
u want to learn to tune ur car.at least with ur own wide band.

 

[monmon]

yea, i just bought my own wideband, costed rm1400.
ksp power sells innovate. around same price rm1400 i believe for the basic kit. :)

 

[zephuros]

thanks for all... for your info, the basic about tuning i alredy know.. here i'm asking the advance tuning tip .. like at 0.8bar, how many degree ignition for optimum performance. Only pro tuner know the correct degree roughly.. than from the data, i can retard about 1-2 degree for safety purpose.

For the air fuel ratio, at my place have one workshop that have wideband sensor. So i'm borrow from him & do onroad tuning. Right know i set like below :

idle : 14.7
low rpm + cruising : 15-16
boosting :13.5-12
low rpm with some load : 14-15

i have no prob with air fuel ratio.... right know i wanna tweak the ignition map to optimum power, but dun have knock sensor ( like headphone, to hear knock while tuning).. So i'm scared of knocking that i canot hear...

For my current setting right know, it smooth... power oso okey lah... but still not optimum... i make the ignition map above to let tuner study & give a comment what's wrong with my map... ignition too low at hi boost or too hi degree at low rpm..
i hope tuner can share your knowledge about ignition timing data..

the ignition teory i already know like...
-retard at max torque
-retard while boost increase
-and etc..


emm.. for the thermostat, stock car use 80'C coz for environmental.. hi temp engine give less toxic gases & fuel cosumtion... if wrong plz correct me...
That's why i'm asking about racing termostat, low temp engine=more fuel=can advance ignition=less knoking=more pollution=less temp air intake temp. = more power??? or less power???

Thanks

nan83,

running A/F of 15/16 in cruise is kinda dodgy in my opinion. I'd prefer to run closer to stoichiometric. You'll be producing too much heat with 15/16 A/F. I do however believe that making your mixture a little lean just before coming on boost is a good thing since the higher energy gas has the advantage of spooling a turbo faster... I'd stick to stoich or slightly rih A/Fs in cruise...