Ideal Temp (ZZT231)

[ezianevo]

Hi everyone,


Got this car few months back. Just curious on ideal temperature for this car.

In my case, every cold start-up my RPM will hike until 2000 and maintain at 1500. What I noticed, it takes at least 15 - 30 minutes (depends on ambient temperature) to reach ideal temperature which i feel it is too long. Or is it normal?

When I drove the car during night, the temperature of the engine very slow to reach the ideal temperature even after 30 minutes of driving.

I noticed white smoke come from exhaust but not too obvious and also with smell of unburnt fuel. My car also have very bad gas millage. So far no any indication of CEL.

Anyone got any idea what can cause this thing happen?

 

[markblurberry]

Hi Bro,
The white smoke is during the morning engine warm up or everytime u drive? Causes of white smoke and unburn fuel can be quite a few symptoms - inefficient combustion, ignition problem - weak spark plugs, or even can be sign of brake pump giving way.....

 

[ezianevo]

Hi Bro,
The white smoke is during the morning engine warm up or everytime u drive? Causes of white smoke and unburn fuel can be quite a few symptoms - inefficient combustion, ignition problem - weak spark plugs, or even can be sign of brake pump giving way.....

Hi markblurberry,

The white smoke during morning start-up is very noticeable but barely can be seen when driving.

Spark plug has been replaced. No changes. Brake pump? How can brake pump affect the engine temperature?

 

[xtremeleo]

i think u r either 1.lacking a thermostat or 2. the thermostat is stuck open, leading the coolant to circulate non-stop. dis is the reason y ur engine is taking a very long time to warm up, fyi it shud take only around 4minutes for a vehicle to warm up sufficiently.

an engine needs to warm up in the shortest time to 1. decrease the amount of wear and tear, to warm the engine oil to its optimum operating temperature, as it was designed to work best at a certain temperature 2. keep fc to a minimum.

iam positive, for now, the smoke u are seeing is water vapor coming outta the zorst, a typical thing when u have rich fueling. the ecu richen the fueling on start-up to heat the engine up asap, in ur case the ecu keeps on sensing dat u need to heat the engine up so it richen the fuel mixture, which gives u a high fc value

 

[ezianevo]

i think u r either 1.lacking a thermostat or 2. the thermostat is stuck open, leading the coolant to circulate non-stop. dis is the reason y ur engine is taking a very long time to warm up, fyi it shud take only around 4minutes for a vehicle to warm up sufficiently.

an engine needs to warm up in the shortest time to 1. decrease the amount of wear and tear, to warm the engine oil to its optimum operating temperature, as it was designed to work best at a certain temperature 2. keep fc to a minimum.

iam positive, for now, the smoke u are seeing is water vapor coming outta the zorst, a typical thing when u have rich fueling. the ecu richen the fueling on start-up to heat the engine up asap, in ur case the ecu keeps on sensing dat u need to heat the engine up so it richen the fuel mixture, which gives u a high fc value

Hi xtremeleo,


Thank you for your brilliant reply. I see. From your explanation it really make sense why i have this problem. Is it only takes 4 minutes to reach ideal temperature?

So do i need to replace the thermostat or is it can be repaired? How much it cost to replace that thermostat? Are they universal?

Sorry if asking too many questions. I don't have much knowledge about car.

 

[xtremeleo]

i dunno if u have a unit installed, but its not, then get a new one. cheap2 jer, no worries.

malu bertanyea sesat jalan, dont get lost, just ask away, dont worry too much about it.

 

[Barbarian]

yup.... agree with xtremeleo on the thermostat.... new thermostat cheap cheap.... mine was stucked open and I think it was about RM100 to replace it with ori toyota part.....

white smoke while start up could be due to valve seal too.....

 

[markblurberry]

Hi Bro extremeleo,

Does this means replacing the thermostat will also solve the issue with white vapor coming out of the exhaust?

Well it happens to my prev toyota where white smoke were literally gushing out, and foreman detected brake pump damage..

 

[xtremeleo]

Hi Bro extremeleo,

Does this means replacing the thermostat will also solve the issue with white vapor coming out of the exhaust?

Well it happens to my prev toyota where white smoke were literally gushing out, and foreman detected brake pump damage..

not necessarily, it depends on the if it is really water vapour or engine oil smoke. in this instances, iam assuming the engine is still in a healthy condition. there is sumthing called "cylinder bore wash" which is caused by too rich a mixture, this bores the cylinder walls at a certain rate when dat extra fuel injected in the combustion chambers thins down the lube on the walls and boring them out. again, i dont think the engine has reached to dis state, at least not yet.

even with the thermostat in, the ecu will richen the mixture to warm the engine up asap, but once it has reached d preset/optimum temperature, it will fuel up according to the revv/tps opening/map reading/etc. witout a thermostat installed, the coolant temperature will be kept cold for longer, and the ecu will keep on fueling for warm up. in fact, the engine may not be brought up to an optimum temperature and the ecu will always fuel for warming up, not good for fc imo

iam still thinking y a brake pump damage wud give u white smoke outta the zorst..

 

[Barbarian]

many many possibilities for 'white' smoke..... maybe your gasket koyak..... rad leaking into your combustion chamber... :) hehehheeee..... bet you are trembling rite now....

extremeleo... I'm confused.... running richer makes the engine cooler or hotter?? oil temp will be lower if I run rich..... running lean causes it to go up higher.... that's my observation.....

 

[xtremeleo]

too rich, it becomes colder, so much so dat the engine may able to die. richer for warming up asap, to sustain revv

 

[Barbarian]

huh?? :hmmmm2:

lets say, at idle.... running at 14.7 and 13 O2 ratio... which will warm up the car faster? I do know that when the coolant is below optimum temp, engine will be running richer to protect the engine.... at the same time, we tune it a tad richer if oil temp sky rockets easily......

 

[xtremeleo]

huh?? :hmmmm2:

lets say, at idle.... running at 14.7 and 13 O2 ratio... which will warm up the car faster? I do know that when the coolant is below optimum temp, engine will be running richer to protect the engine.... at the same time, we tune it a tad richer if oil temp sky rockets easily......

y do u need this info sir? i suggest u let the ecu do its job for the warming up process

 

[ezianevo]

i dunno if u have a unit installed, but its not, then get a new one. cheap2 jer, no worries.

malu bertanyea sesat jalan, dont get lost, just ask away, dont worry too much about it.

thank you xtremeleo for your prompt advice, i will get the new thermostat asap.

i will update the result once replaced.

 

[ezianevo]

yup.... agree with xtremeleo on the thermostat.... new thermostat cheap cheap.... mine was stucked open and I think it was about RM100 to replace it with ori toyota part.....

white smoke while start up could be due to valve seal too.....

Hi Barbarian,

That thermostat is it specifically for Toyota Celica only or it is can suite all Toyota cars?

 

[Barbarian]

ezianevo..... I'm not sure if it's universal for Toyota cars or not... I asked specifically for celica.....

extremeleo... coz I used to run on standalone and tune it on my own..... and my understanding is different from yours... so wanted to learn more..... it's ok if you dun wish to reply.....

 

[xtremeleo]

okie, a diy guy, good den..

what i can see is, maps for both warming up and normal operation are different, totally different imo. u gotta have more ignition and fuel to start and warm the engine up asap, iam more to think dat during warm up period the ecu is running on close loop? and it opens loop when normal operating temperature is achieved? isnt it? wait up, what was the topic again? err, seaching..

extremeleo... I'm confused.... running richer makes the engine cooler or hotter?? oil temp will be lower if I run rich..... running lean causes it to go up higher.... that's my observation.....

okie den, i think what u meant was when the engine was warmed up fullly kan? i think its different scenarios altogether kot, i was explaning about warming the engine up asap fyi. what u stated is true also

 

[Barbarian]

during warm up... I use water temp vs fuel cell to compensate and run it a tad richer..... where else for water temp vs ignition map, it's retarded when the temp is below optimum.... this is to protect the cold engine...

 

[xtremeleo]

thanx for the info, its harder to start the car when i retard the ignition, and it wont even start when i retard it to the max..

 

[ezianevo]

I bought the thermostat just now. Cost me RM100 included the thermostat gasket.

90916-03129 Thermostat
16325-62010 Gasket

I plan to DIY. Is it easy or not?

If refer to repair manual, I need to open the alternator and the drive belt too which i think it quite a messy job.

But if refer the link below, I don't need to open the alternator and the belt. And it seems more easier jon. :hmmmm:

How to Replace a Toyota Celica Thermostat | eHow.com

Anyone have experienced on this DIY?
Or better send to the shop?