First compulsory Moral...now this???!!! wow!

[trancebum]

for those of fellas who remember being the first few batches of 'kids' sitting for the compulsory Moral paper for SPM...this is another slap in the face by the govt in trying to 'instill racial harmony'. more like forcing it down your throat!! what a double whammy!!

well..seeing that i scored a P8 for moral (and my dad's reaction to that was 'what an uncultured and uncouth son i have!'. i had to laugh to that i must say) i sincerely admire those who scored A1 for moral. The education ministry (obviously under instructions from the govt) obviously decided that we can learn moral values from textbooks! and what's worse, is that the lessons are none the more useful when everyone was required to MEMORISE the values and sub-values (or whatever you want to call it). And now, VERY obviously that FAILED miserably, they've gone 1 up and want to TEACH 'ethnic ties' in university!! hishamuddin is king when it comes to education...dont u agree??

more propoganda by the govt u think? (as some part of the 'teaching' involves the infamous May13 issue).

p/s: the very best of luck to those who will have to sit for this paper!

Link : http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2006/7/17/nation/14854426&sec=nation

Ethnic ties will still be taught

PETALING JAYA: The Higher Education Ministry will study all comments and criticisms on Ethnic Relations, a newly-introduced subject in public universities.
Deputy Higher Education Minister Datuk Ong Tee Keat said teaching of the subject would, however, continue. “It will not be fair to stop it before any conclusion is made. But we will study all the comments received, including those from DAP, before making any decision,” Ong told reporters after launching the American Universities Education Fair here yesterday.
On Saturday, DAP secretary-general Lim Guan Eng had claimed that the subject would disrupt harmony among students as the textbook was “divisive and contrary to national interest”.

“Instead of fostering inter-communal ties, it will only serve to drive race relations further apart,” Lim had said in a statement.
Malaysian Academic Movement president Assoc Prof Dr Wan Abdul Manan Wan Muda however said the subject would create awareness on multi-racial harmony.
“It will create awareness because university students tend to congregate among their own races these days, unlike in the 1970s,” he added.
He said the Government should liberalise the Universities and University Colleges Act (UUCA) so that students could jointly organise activities to promote ethnic harmony.
Dr Wan Abdul Manan also said the Government should get a historian with an objective view to write about the country's history. “It has to be someone who does not have a one-sided view, propaganda or agenda.”

 

[Duke Red]

The level of ignorace astounds me.

The issue is not with the subjects that are being thought but rather the manner in which they are communicated to students. Moral studies would have been a far more effective subject had they not required (as you have stated) us to memorise the freaking book. I myself got a P8 but have more moral values in my left toe than some of these blokes that are implementing these subjects. They teach us to be drones and abide to the one way of life that they impose on us. It's no wonder that so many students find themselves cast at sea when they go overseas for further studies. They finally have to use the creative part of their brain that has remained dormant for the better part of 20 years. The ministry should focus on teaching methods and those that are delivering these teachings to us. Book smarts are overrated. Street smarts is what we need to survive in a competitive environment. Teach people to think rather than to memorise. Geeze, hardly nuclear physics is it?

 

[infernaL]

total waste of time as moral cant be thought thru books but by msians themselves showing wanting to practice it or not via influence from society esp the leaders .

woot dosent sound right . errr come to think about it , just forget it about it lol .

 

[satria_95]

I think I failed my moral subject in SPM la. Can't recall back exactly. I wonder whether the education ministry will really study and think of all possible effects of this... this... whatever implementation that are planning to do. Sometimes, it's a bit challenging to hang out in a group with various races.

If a group of 3 races go out and eat, they would have to consider the muslim friends. I making a guess here but chinese and hindus would usually end up in a non-halal eatery and thus, it would make it hard for the muslim friends to join them. I may be wrong but personally, I feel that there non-halal food has more variety as compared to halal foods. And somehow, I personally feel that non-halal food would taste just that bit different from halal food. I won't mind going to halal eateries once in a while but not all that time. Thus, there exists that small barrier there. Maybe one way is that those eateries include both halal and non-halal food. Well, this is one example but just a little one.

I would think that it all boils down to mentality. Some of the muslim friends would start to get sensitive and ask, "Why you all always eat at non-halal eateries? Trying to get rid of us or what?" You know, stuff like that. Many muslims are rather sensitive when it comes to talking about religious issues. This has become such that the malaysian society feels that it is "dangerous" to talk about the islam religion / muslim folks openly, unless one doesn't mind being clobbered to the ground by whack-first-talk-later muslims. Many of my friends have related their experience when it comes to sensitive issues that relates to muslims. Most of them always act first, then only think later. Again, basic logic applies here. If one kind of people are always found to be doing a certain activity, they will be generalizes as that. For example. When someone says lousy biker, many would automatically relate it to mat rempits, who happens to be mostly malays.

No offense meant here, just sharing of opinions. Peace.

 

[Tohsan]

Moral this moral that, sounds like a holy saints but our fucking G is not living up to that,after all that bunch of scumbag that teaches this subject I don't think they have a slight idea of what the subject is all about, otherwise there won't be kopi practice everywhere in Government department and all the local "U", moral subject?? so why the heck wasting tax payer money?

 

[ace79]

Well, every bit helps lah. I think you guys should take a look at it at all grounds, sides and levels. And it's always best to keep it low when one does not know the full story.

I am very happy to have plenty of non - Muslim friends from all around the globe who understands my situation as a Muslim. And I sometimes try to accommodate them by going to pubs with 'em, but of course, no beer or liqour for me lah ( quit those stuffs years ago ). It's a give and take situation lah.

Let me give you guys a point to ponder ( in Islam ) : we Muslims are barred from drinking beer / liqour or anything that may intoxicate us. Why? What happens when you're drunk? You lose your motor control functions, your speaking in a slurry way, you can't even walk or stand up straight, let alone to drive home safely. What happens next? Too many variables there, right? In Islam, prevention is preferred, rather then cure. After all, isn't is correct, that it's best to avoid 1st rather than to face the repercussions later?

If one really wants to be morraly - correct, then threads like this shouldn't sound or look negative. One must look at something from all it's aspect and gain all the details about that particular matter 1st bfr commenting about it.

Like I always say, it's best to keep mum, if you don't know the full details. :)

And if one really do not agree with the local's govt, then, why stay here? Why don't you move away and see for yourself. Malaysia is still one of the best places to live.

Example : Singapore. Do you know that you can't be caught driving around even with a muffler that have a large exit piping diameter, that's have yet to be approved by the local JPJ? Caught as in, while driving around town. Here, does the police stops you just because your muffler's large in size?

Do you know that at Singapore, all your utility bills will be automatically deducted from your monthly salary? Here, we can hold on to our utility bills up to 2 - 3 months bfr paying right?

Do you know that families in Singapore, who only earns a total of SGD 1.2k and lower, cannot afford to send their child to kindergarden? And that they have to take a loan for only such a purpose?

Do you know that at US, if you do not have an insurance policy ( at least something like the Sihat Malaysia card ), no hospitals or clinics will attend to you?

Do you read the newspapers and watch the news on the telly nowadays? See how blatantly Israel is bombing Palestine and now Beirut? And US is saying that, it's all for Israel's own defense? Rocks against guns?

Please, quit complaining about the Govt this lah, that lah, bribe lah etc. It's like that anywhere on Earth, only diff is that sometimes, it's legal, sometimes it's in a grey area, sometimes is not leghal, and sometimes it's just blatant rude. You just have to live with it.

Everyone will pay for what they've done, it's either sooner or later.

 

[chek_corolla]

i felt that muslims should study moral as well as the others. why muslims go for religion class while we as non muslims go for moral class?
if a christian wants to take bible studies as a subject in SPM, why cant muslims do the same thing?
if moral is a benefit for everyone, why dont the muslims study moral as well?

ace79, it is not nessacery that no hospital or clicnic will attend u, u just need to pay a higher fee for a consultantcy from a doctor and also high bill for medication. this is because, having the insurance or not, is on your own benefit. if u choose not to have it, then its ur own problem for paying more.

 

[Duke Red]

Let me give you guys a point to ponder ( in Islam ) : we Muslims are barred from drinking beer / liqour or anything that may intoxicate us. Why? What happens when you're drunk? You lose your motor control functions, your speaking in a slurry way, you can't even walk or stand up straight, let alone to drive home safely. What happens next? Too many variables there, right? In Islam, prevention is preferred, rather then cure. After all, isn't is correct, that it's best to avoid 1st rather than to face the repercussions later?

There is no doubt that alcohol impairs ones motor skills. Again it boils down the the individual and how responsibly they act during or after consumption of alcohol. I know responsible drivers that get others to send them back but we also hear of drunk drivers that commit hit & runs. Again it's more about one's individual values. From a larger perspective, you probably get more sober people who commit attrocities than drunk ones. Religion is a sacred thing and I do not wish to trample on any toes. It is just my belief that sometimes you have to allow people to make mistakes for them to learn. It is in our nature to be curious and prohibitation will only lead us to find other ways to satisfy our curiosity. I firmly believe that people should be provided with a choice. This is subjective and as I said, it's really more to do with the individual and his upbringing and anything else.

And if one really do not agree with the local's govt, then, why stay here? Why don't you move away and see for yourself. Malaysia is still one of the best places to live.

This questioned have been answered numerous times but since you asked, please bear with me. Leaving a country is not a decision that can be made on the spot. Some of us have responsibilities to our family ( we can't exactly ALL pack up and leave can we?). Most of us have our roots here and are not about to drop everything to begin an entirely new life in a foreign environment. There are a lot of things to consider. Is everyone here completely happy with their current job? or where they currently live? Why not quit? Why not move?

Example : Singapore. Do you know that you can't be caught driving around even with a muffler that have a large exit piping diameter, that's have yet to be approved by the local JPJ? Caught as in, while driving around town. Here, does the police stops you just because your muffler's large in size?

Yes my friend has been stopped before and fined for changing just his tailpipe. The problem with Malaysia is that the rules & regulations aren't clear and enforcement is not consistent, not something I'm particularly proud about.

Do you know that at Singapore, all your utility bills will be automatically deducted from your monthly salary? Here, we can hold on to our utility bills up to 2 - 3 months bfr paying right?

Do you know that families in Singapore, who only earns a total of SGD 1.2k and lower, cannot afford to send their child to kindergarden? And that they have to take a loan for only such a purpose?

Do you know that at US, if you do not have an insurance policy ( at least something like the Sihat Malaysia card ), no hospitals or clinics will attend to you?

Do you read the newspapers and watch the news on the telly nowadays? See how blatantly Israel is bombing Palestine and now Beirut? And US is saying that, it's all for Israel's own defense? Rocks against guns?

Please, quit complaining about the Govt this lah, that lah, bribe lah etc. It's like that anywhere on Earth, only diff is that sometimes, it's legal, sometimes it's in a grey area, sometimes is not leghal, and sometimes it's just blatant rude. You just have to live with it.

Everyone will pay for what they've done, it's either sooner or later.

I'm sure everyone is thankful for being better off than some countries but the issue here is about fighting for a living environment that is ideal. Let's say you were a tennis player. Would you play against a better player or a worse player if you wanted to improve? Then again, I've met people who don't want to improve themselves so maybe this isn't the most appropriate example.

I personally don't see why people should just blindly accept things without questioning them. I think it is naive to do so. Maybe it's because I'm just too curious. It's the same with our education system isnt' it? We are thought to memorise instead of understand. I find it hard to accept things just because someone told me so. I have the compulsion to find out why and honestly, I don't think it's a bad thing. I am afterall a being capable to intelligent thought, not a machine that needs to be programmed.

 

[b00n]

the blardy truth is I dun really feel that the education level in malaysia is standard enough as compared to other countries. I remember aswering 1 history essay only in SPM and still pass the exam. Got a 5 if I remember correctly....9 years back!
I'm not the one who goes to classes; but imagine my shock when I got 8 units! 5 A1, 1 A2, 1 C3; 2 E5 and 1 P7. Do I call that lucky?....I don't think so. All i know is that I need to thank the education system for giving me these results. Without it; I think I would most probably flunk my SPM.......BIG TIME!

Obviously I failled moral. But the teachers and most of the ppl who scores high in Moral would tell you this. Just byhard the "moral values" and the definitions.......
My point is, u can't by hard the definitions if you're not using it in a correct manner.

 

[infernaL]

the blardy truth is I dun really feel that the education level in malaysia is standard enough as compared to other countries. I remember aswering 1 history essay only in SPM and still pass the exam. Got a 5 if I remember correctly....9 years back!
I'm not the one who goes to classes; but imagine my shock when I got 8 units! 5 A1, 1 A2, 1 C3; 2 E5 and 1 P7. Do I call that lucky?....I don't think so. All i know is that I need to thank the education system for giving me these results. Without it; I think I would most probably flunk my SPM.......BIG TIME!

Obviously I failled moral. But the teachers and most of the ppl who scores high in Moral would tell you this. Just byhard the "moral values" and the definitions.......
My point is, u can't by hard the definitions if you're not using it in a correct manner.

eh i got quite similiar results too , guess they lowered the standards so overall pass rates are better la

 

[szekeiemme]

crap n crap n more crap..its like.. bila terjumpa beg dompet.. apa yg hendaklah anda lakukan... common sense.. take de cash n throw de dompet.. akhakahka...

 

[trancebum]

ahhh...did i not mention that the 'ethnic relations' class would involve what happened in May13 1969?? Vindication is but a breath away....(check the link below)

so...rather than 'teach/educate' the young minds of the nation about the integration of races, the education ministry resorts to pointing fingers at which RACE was at fault for the 'disharmony' in the country. Tsk tsk tsk...

so moderators (Tom, joeker) before u lambast me for saying that this race is a sensitive issue, etc, have a read at the article and decide for yourselves. it is the GOVT which has brought about the racial issues...not me. I'm merely pointing out what they are doing.

link : http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/nst/Tuesday/Frontpage/20060718073247/Article/index_html

ook used to teach racial unity described as seditious
18 Jul 2006
V. Vasudevan, Azura Abas and Minderjeet Kaur

KUALA LUMPUR: A noble approach in tackling racial polarisation in universities has backfired. It has even prompted a harsh reaction from Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Nazri Aziz. He described as seditious the contents of the textbook which students have to study in the newly-introduced Ethnic Relations course.

Debate on the issue was heated in the Dewan Rakyat yesterday and Nazri, the de facto Law Minister, even suggested that anyone unhappy with the contents could lodge a police report.

"The police can then investigate the contents of the book. We can take it from there," he said at the Parliament lobby.

Higher Education Minister Datuk Mustapa Mohamed, who spoke in the House earlier, said the Government was prepared to make amendments if there were factual mistakes in the book.

However, he said the contents were based on facts.

The Ethnic Relations textbook has been in use by Universiti Putra Malaysia since early this year. The authors are Jayum Anak Jawan and Zaid Ahmad.

Among the contentious parts are:

• Condemning as "extremist" the 1999 Election Appeal of the Malaysian Chinese Election Appeals Committee (Suqiu), which was endorsed in principle by the Barisan Nasional parties;

• Blaming Indian youths for the 2001 Kampung Medan incident; and,

• Blaming the DAP for the May 13, 1969 riots. Both are on page 78 of the book.

Nazri felt the whole approach to fostering better ethic relations as promoted by the book was flawed.

"We should be stressing the positives of various ethnic groups. Why talk about the past? Blaming anyone for the past is not going to do any good today. Let us talk about the good."

Loh Seng Kok (BN-Kelana Jaya) said the book was a classic case of inciting hatred among the races in Malaysia.

"At first look, a reader is taken through historical events, which is supposed to educate and promote ethnic relations for the good of the country.

"But, what do we have here? Historical facts that are being distorted. One race is being made a scapegoat," he said of the contents of the book.

Datuk Dr Madius Tangau (BN-Tuaran) said emphasis should be on understanding other ethnic groups.

"For far too long we have been teaching how to be tolerant. We should understand the mindset of one another, not try to apportion blame on anyone for bad events in history."

Mustapa’s statement was in reply to Opposition leader Lim Kit Siang’s question expressing concern that the Ethnic Relations course could do more harm than good.

"Historical facts cannot be altered like the May 13 racial unrest, Kampung Medan incident and Dong Jiao Zong. All these have taken place and we cannot question them. If we look back, there are certain claims made by Suqiu which are against the provisions under the Federal Constitution."

Mustapa told the House that the Government stood by its stand that incidents listed in the textbooks were correct.

Lim said in a statement later that Mustapa had given "a most unsatisfactory answer" to his supplementary question in Parliament yesterday. He argued that the course was biased, tendentious and divisive.

Ethnic Relations is a mandatory subject for university students beginning from this year’s academic session.

 

[b00n]

They shud point out the basic root that causes the events without "pointing fingers" or blaming ethic groups!

from wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_13_Incident

Root Cause:

On its formation in 1963, Malaysia suffered from a sharp division of wealth between the Chinese, who were perceived to control a large portion of the Malaysian economy, and the Malays, who were perceived to be more poor and rural. However, it was foreign individuals and organisations, not the Chinese, who held the largest portion of total corporate equity in the country.

1964 Race Riots in Singapore were a large contributing factor in the expulsion of that state from Malaysia, and racial tension continued to simmer, many Malays dissatisfied by their newly independent government's perceived willingness to placate the Chinese at their expense.

Politics in Malaysia at this time was mainly Malay-based, with an emphasis on special privileges for the Malays — other indigenous Malaysians, grouped together collectively with the Malays under the title of "bumiputra" would not be granted a similar standing until after the riots. There had been a recent outburst of Malay passion for ketuanan Melayu — Malay supremacy — after the National Language Act of 1967, which in the opinion of some Malays, had not gone far enough in the act of enshrining Malay as the national language. Heated arguments about the nature of Malay privileges, with the mostly Chinese opposition mounting a "Malaysian Malaysia" campaign had contributed to the separation of Singapore, and inflamed passions on both sides.

The causes of the rioting can be analysed to have the same root as the 1964 Race Riots in Singapore. In addition, Malay leaders who were angry about the election results used the press to attack their opponents, contributing to raising public anger and tension among the Malay and Chinese communities.

So who's to say who's right and who's wrong?!?! Who to blame?!?! To me, both communities plays a part in this thus no single ethic group is to be the scapegoat!

 

[Tohsan]

Satu lagi malaysia boleh sohai elected to write sohai story which no body will accept except his own clique!

 

[ace79]

Err, bfr u say something like that, it's wise for you to know more about Islam 1st. We study moral since small, like me, I learned about moral stuffs since I was 8 years old, from where? Muqaddam and Al - Quran. While at school, Islam classes, which teaches us a lot about Islam, is also intertwined with moral issues as well. I suggest you go and do a proper research bfr stating such a comment.

I had never complained, commented etc about other religion, what they do etc. That is their choice. Why? I try my best to accommodate everyone in my life. You should learn to do something like that too.

Example : I do have Muslim pals who drinks. I don't go bashing their head off, but I just tell 'em : It's not good for you to do this you know. And that's it. Whatever they choose to do after that, it's up to them.

i felt that muslims should study moral as well as the others. why muslims go for religion class while we as non muslims go for moral class?
if a christian wants to take bible studies as a subject in SPM, why cant muslims do the same thing?
if moral is a benefit for everyone, why dont the muslims study moral as well?

 

[Lennon]

Err, bfr u say something like that, it's wise for you to know more about Islam 1st. We study moral since small, like me, I learned about moral stuffs since I was 8 years old, from where? Muqaddam and Al - Quran. While at school, Islam classes, which teaches us a lot about Islam, is also intertwined with moral issues as well. I suggest you go and do a proper research bfr stating such a comment.

Moral is not how much you read or what age you begin to learn...... Is how you act and behave... Chinese school have moral studies since their first day at school, so do you think there's any differents......

 

[b00n]

okie....let's cool it on this Islam thingie.........
this thread is about ethic studies........and somemore; the new book was twisted...
Moral studies is a past now........

We have to acknowledge that we're living in an Islamic country.

If you happen to study in a catholic sch; they would teach bible classes.......same o' same.....so cool it on this issue!

btw, I'm a Chinese who studies in Chinese Primary Sch and Government Secondary Sch.

 

[koolspyda]

it is sad that the race issue is used as a tool (with subtle & even sometimes strong racist innuendoes) in delivering their political agenda(s).

I feel we are more "malaysians" as a unit then to be constantly "reminded " of our ethnicity divisions.

while, i can understand the sentiments of fear of losing out but if theres no work (at integration); then there is no gain. we speak of instilling compulsory Moral studies (which is good), & why do we say we are an islamic country? I thought the malaysian official religion & we recognise it as islam. but we arent an islamic country officially, are we?. not trying to poke a hornet nests. need clarification here.

I do for one mix well with all races (i confess, I havent intergrated much with singh community (correct? or wrong rude to refer as). I do in occasion belanja makan with security guards (local bumis) for leisure.

It nice to see cultural integration with no ulterior motives. some of my best client(s) do come from bumiputra businessmen.

So long as there's agenda(s) to divide who's the "bad men", "evil-wronged, guilty party(ties)", we are headed 5 steps behind for every step forward.

 

[satria_95]

crap n crap n more crap..its like.. bila terjumpa beg dompet.. apa yg hendaklah anda lakukan... common sense.. take de cash n throw de dompet.. akhakahka...

Eh, dude. Check the IC also ma. If it's a chick and got her biz card with number on it, then give her a call. hahaha

 

[buck-7]

Err, bfr u say something like that, it's wise for you to know more about Islam 1st. We study moral since small, like me, I learned about moral stuffs since I was 8 years old, from where? Muqaddam and Al - Quran. While at school, Islam classes, which teaches us a lot about Islam, is also intertwined with moral issues as well. I suggest you go and do a proper research bfr stating such a comment.

I had never complained, commented etc about other religion, what they do etc. That is their choice. Why? I try my best to accommodate everyone in my life. You should learn to do something like that too.

Example : I do have Muslim pals who drinks. I don't go bashing their head off, but I just tell 'em : It's not good for you to do this you know. And that's it. Whatever they choose to do after that, it's up to them.

dude, please dont talk about drinking only. what about smoking? its poison to your body (and to the people around you, talk about morals!) thus it should fall in the haram category also. Then since this an Islamic country dont you think the G should make a law making it haram for muslims to smoke and can be punished just like drinking?
Just one of the things I dont understand why its not done and then they force people to learn moral?