Chassis Strengthening

[NA_Lover]

Hi guys!

Does anyone know if we have chassis strengthening services in Malaysia?

I was thinking more along the lines of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHEdtAVlbBw

I mean.. it probably won't be so pro la..
but just something to help my car to avoid getting all twisted from hard cornering.

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Pay a visit to Ultra Racing in Pandan Indah. Elson's the boss there. They'll know what to. Did both my cars there & very pleased with the results. Helped to improve the handling a lot. Definitely worth it.

 

[scomatic]

Last time i saw people here are taken axle to repair boat workshop to do spot weld and make it full lock... result very impressive, 1 dot only can hold... ... but use the weld spot very ugly... haha...
The exhaust done the spot weld very not stick able ... Maybe the Ultra Racing also can do alot better....

 

[cataphrax]

for spot and seam welding, i think you're better off asking the dudes at drift.com.my as many of them are driving relatively older cars and with the amount of stress drifting puts on thier cars, its the only way to make sure there is very minimal chassis flex. but bear in mind once you've done spot and seam welding, once you get into an accident that causes impact onto your chassis, you're pretty much screwed. because when you spot and seam weld you're stiffening up the usual crumple spots that are on the chassis that absorb impact and minimize damage to that specific area. so basically if you have a head on collision, your damage might affect the chassis all the way to either the middle or the back, which will make it impossible to fix or very very expensive as you'll have to use that laser alignment to do back.

usually what normal ppl would do it load up on braces and bars. thats the cheapest and most cost effective. but the more bars and braces you put on, the more weight you're adding onto your car.

second option would be autofoam. theres a shop somewhere in kl which does this. they inject foam into your A B and C pillar along as well as the sidestep area. since its foam there is not weight penalty. and its a great sound deadener as well. and it absorbs impact well.

third option is technically not legal but quite a few guys here have it. half or full cage. adds weight but you really can feel the difference. very minimal chassis flex and almost not body roll (obviously needs to be paired with a good suspension setup as well).

i guess thats pretty much it. these are all based on the stuff i have read only and my personal experience so if i'm wrong please feel free to comment.

 

[NA_Lover]

Wah... Thx a lot guys. Thats really good info to get me started!

I didnt even know it was called spot welding. Must ask around for that. Really looks amazing huh..
Thanks a lot for providing the cons as well! I probably would never have known on my own.

Hey sifu 2 old, thx a lot for the recommendation bro! The place you mentioned.. Ultra Racing.. they were that torsion bars specialist right? How much did it costs to do up your corona? Was hoping to just get a rough idea before going there.. haha.

 

[wfhan]

cataphrax,
u hv done autofoam to yours??
i remembered we talked about this with keith 1~2 yrs ago.

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Wah... Thx a lot guys. Thats really good info to get me started!

I didnt even know it was called spot welding. Must ask around for that. Really looks amazing huh..
Thanks a lot for providing the cons as well! I probably would never have known on my own.

Hey sifu 2 old, thx a lot for the recommendation bro! The place you mentioned.. Ultra Racing.. they were that torsion bars specialist right? How much did it costs to do up your corona? Was hoping to just get a rough idea before going there.. haha.

I've also been dreaming spot welding my old tired Corona body but the cost of it will probably set you back a few steps, bro. If you could afford it, then that's probably the best way to strengthen the chasis but if not, then probably adding a few bars here & there would the more economical way around it.

But normally for a non-track used car, those reinforcement bars should be quite sufficient; (of course in drifting cases is different coz the force of going sideways will put a lot of stress to the chasis.)

The cost for the lower arm bars are RM 100+, fender bars are about RM 200, strut /tower bars are about RM 100+ (front & rear about the same price, i think). Here's the link: http://www.ultraracing.com.my/ultraracing/ProductData.asp

Ivan Khong (GRA) helped me to test drive my car a few days ago & according to him, he's happy with the handling of it. Infact, he's the one who introduced me to Ultra Racing many years ago.

I'm not promoting or anything but I'm telling as it is, that's all, afterall, I'm happy with the results & price.

 

[normality78]

second option would be autofoam. theres a shop somewhere in kl which does this. they inject foam into your A B and C pillar along as well as the sidestep area. since its foam there is not weight penalty. and its a great sound deadener as well. and it absorbs impact well.

taiko, seek you opinion or u point of view on this. I ever thought of doing autofoam but then i do have some worry on this aspect.

As autofoam is very dense (once it dried up), it will re-informcent the whole area that being autofoamed (normally those hollow frame area). But if the area being autofoamed lika kena bang, its beyond repair also rite?

For example, door panel. If i autofoam it, thn kena knock by motor, usually plp knock it back or so but in this case, it got to replace entire door rite? coz there is no way you can knock it back right?

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

taiko, seek you opinion or u point of view on this. I ever thought of doing autofoam but then i do have some worry on this aspect.

As autofoam is very dense (once it dried up), it will re-informcent the whole area that being autofoamed (normally those hollow frame area). But if the area being autofoamed lika kena bang, its beyond repair also rite?

For example, door panel. If i autofoam it, thn kena knock by motor, usually plp knock it back or so but in this case, it got to replace entire door rite? coz there is no way you can knock it back right?

If I'm not mistaken, they don't autofoam your door panels, bro. It's only meant for the chasis, only those hollow parts under your door.

 

[NA_Lover]

As autofoam is very dense (once it dried up), it will re-informcent the whole area that being autofoamed (normally those hollow frame area). But if the area being autofoamed lika kena bang, its beyond repair also rite?

Ya hor.. I oso thinking about the same thing..
I mean.. if autofoam the chassis right.. would the effects be similar to spot welding?
As in if accident.. the whole chassis would end up being affected instead of a single hotspot?

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Ya hor.. I oso thinking about the same thing..
I mean.. if autofoam the chassis right.. would the effects be similar to spot welding?
As in if accident.. the whole chassis would end up being affected instead of a single hotspot?

If you talk about accident, aiyor, what also die lor..... They say, even those strut bars fitted to the top absorber mountings will also effect the other side if one side is hit mar... I dunno lar, but it seems that we've to face the fact that we can't have everything in 1 single perfect package lar. Have you seen how Ferraris look after an accident ?

http://cache.jalopnik.com/assets/resources/2008/05/Ferrari-F355-Japan-Lose-Heads.jpg

Don't shoot first, I was just kidding. I know you meant minor accidents.

 

[ae101rulez]

can anyone recommend any shops for this...i been to welding shop...fella say mine de spot weld before cz my chassis body near lower arm got welding sign as the metal has been burned plus refilling with epoxy...maybe previousprevious owner did it.....ya..but autofoam as i know, imagine if undercarriage accident, can consider condemn de the whole car...same goes goes with those bar bar things also...as the ori screw position will differ on the other side if one side gets into accident as the energy is transfered from 1 side to other...

 

[jameswwt]

Hi guys,
about Autofoam,i do sell this type of quite similar (as i worry the name of this brand is patent or copy right) foam chemical but in a factory packing...

Well,basically how this foam chemical work is it will expand tremendously and seal up all the passage in a chassis or opening whenever it achieved its full re-action with catalyze and moisture.

This will definitely improved the sound and heat insulation and at the same time strenghten the chassis as well.

This foam chemical not only very light and its also fire retardent (very difficult to burn).

Anyone interested in this sort of chemical can always call me at 012-2782689 James.
(P.S - Foam service by the company cost abt RM2K++ for a sedan car, whereby if you are hardworking enough to do it yrself it will cost you abt RM800 to RM900 the most for a 4 doors sedan car)

Please refer to the picture sample :

 

[normality78]

jameswwt bro, we appriciate that you share the technical knowledge here but not on advertising.

 

[scomatic]

you may try to call my friend at 0126267757... He can do chassis spot weld for u too... but pricy abit la... He allocate at KL there...

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Hi guys,
about Autofoam,i do sell this type of quite similar (as i worry the name of this brand is patent or copy right) foam chemical but in a factory packing...

Well,basically how this foam chemical work is it will expand tremendously and seal up all the passage in a chassis or opening whenever it achieved its full re-action with catalyze and moisture.

This will definitely improved the sound and heat insulation and at the same time strenghten the chassis as well.

This foam chemical not only very light and its also fire retardent (very difficult to burn).

Anyone interested in this sort of chemical can always call me at 012-2782689 James.
(P.S - Foam service by the company cost abt RM2K++ for a sedan car, whereby if you are hardworking enough to do it yrself it will cost you abt RM800 to RM900 the most for a 4 doors sedan car)

Please refer to the picture sample :

So James,

What will happen if welding is done on those pillars filled with foam ? I'm asking coz the pillars under the door usually rust badly in older cars & welding is required to fix it.

 

[cataphrax]

taiko, seek you opinion or u point of view on this. I ever thought of doing autofoam but then i do have some worry on this aspect.

As autofoam is very dense (once it dried up), it will re-informcent the whole area that being autofoamed (normally those hollow frame area). But if the area being autofoamed lika kena bang, its beyond repair also rite?

For example, door panel. If i autofoam it, thn kena knock by motor, usually plp knock it back or so but in this case, it got to replace entire door rite? coz there is no way you can knock it back right?

yeah as 2O2R said, they only fill chassis spots. as far as i know from what i've managed to gather from the 2 people i know who've auto foamed thier chassis, there are a few packages. the basic one being the part where they fill your lower chassis being the bottom sills and such and the full on package would be the one that they fill your A B and C pillars with foam so basically you'll have a safety cell, a much version of the system that smart cars use.

the information i can give you about autofoam is limited as i didn't do it to my car. i would suggest you get in touch with the autofoam people liaise directly with them regarding whatever concerns you might have. http://www.autofoam.com.my/

cataphrax,
u hv done autofoam to yours??
i remembered we talked about this with keith 1~2 yrs ago.

no la i finally didn't do it coz i put in the RC. so since the RC managed to stiffen the chassis and reduce body roll AND since the car was previously dynamatted by alvin, i decided against it as i wouldn't benefit much from it.

regarding accidents, i'm not very sure but logically speaking, yes it would a bitch to fix is the autofoamed area absorbed a direct hit during a collission but most of us get involved in minor accidents which either just affect bodyparts and lamps. and in most cases we're hit from the front or the back. so don't really have to worry in that sense i guess unless you have a really really serious accident where the chassis is affected. in which case i would decide to just repair back and sell off because the chassis rigidity and balance would be affected already.

and as i mentioned earlier, essentially what were doing when stiffening the chassis is hardening certain areas including crumple zones so its one of the trade off. if you think about it if you put all those chassis braces also you're gonna be in trouble if anything happens. lets say you have a front top mount bar. and you have a collision on the drivers side. the tire, your arm and the chassis absorbs most of the impact. but because of the bar, some of the force is transferred over to the top mount area on the passenger side as well, so now you have additional damage on the other side. its basically the how science thing on how energy is never lost only transferred to another form of energy.

 

[jameswwt]

Well,i believed welding will not cause much effect to the foam (good ability in withstaning high temp and firea) and no matter who is providing the foam service,pls bare in mind they are only doing service application and they are not the foam manufacturer.

Im selling the chemical foam directly package from the factory and it is very easy to handle.No special equipments required just some thinking and creativity.

Lastly,its depend on the peoples choice on this foam stuff bcos i strongly believed there MUST be a sciencetific reason for most of the cars manufacturer (Nissan,Toyota,Mitsubishi,Honda,Etc.) to foam up their chassis either for the sound & heat insulation or for chassis stiffining at the same time.

 

[2 Old 2 Rusty]

Well,i believed welding will not cause much effect to the foam (good ability in withstaning high temp and firea) and no matter who is providing the foam service,pls bare in mind they are only doing service application and they are not the foam manufacturer.

Im selling the chemical foam directly package from the factory and it is very easy to handle.No special equipments required just some thinking and creativity.

Lastly,its depend on the peoples choice on this foam stuff bcos i strongly believed there MUST be a sciencetific reason for most of the cars manufacturer (Nissan,Toyota,Mitsubishi,Honda,Etc.) to foam up their chassis either for the sound & heat insulation or for chassis stiffining at the same time.

Thanks for the explanation, James.

This foam is not something new. It's already being used in the Alfa Romeos of the '70s era. I don't know if it's still being used in the newer Alfas. I was told by this "mudguard" sifu. There are pros & cons to everything. According to this mudguard sifu, the downside to it was, the foam tend to have air holes in it which retain moisture & with this moisture retained inside, is what cause the bodies of the older Alfas to rot so quickly.

I can't apply the same theory to newer/ other cars these days coz material / galvanising has since improved & all.

 

[cataphrax]

Well,i believed welding will not cause much effect to the foam (good ability in withstaning high temp and firea) and no matter who is providing the foam service,pls bare in mind they are only doing service application and they are not the foam manufacturer.

Im selling the chemical foam directly package from the factory and it is very easy to handle.No special equipments required just some thinking and creativity.

Lastly,its depend on the peoples choice on this foam stuff bcos i strongly believed there MUST be a sciencetific reason for most of the cars manufacturer (Nissan,Toyota,Mitsubishi,Honda,Etc.) to foam up their chassis either for the sound & heat insulation or for chassis stiffining at the same time.

i think the primary concern the guys have is how easy it would be to repair (knock/weld/etc.) the area that was autofoamed after it sustained a substantial amount of damage. because the whole area will be filled and it will be a bit tricky and maybe a bit more costly to repair since the foam will make the whole repair process a bit more tedious (if even possible that is).