BMW Problem & Warranty - Consumers Point..

cruiser

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cruiser

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Greetings to all, *
If any readers are contemplating a BMW or already owning a BMW, please allow me to share my experience. Below is my email to BMW Malaysia.. *

-Quote- *

I purchased the above vehicle as pre-reg unit from Ingress Auto early 2012. I was initially sceptical on buying a used vehicle *but after the salesperson convinced me that the vehicle comes with a 5 year warranty and free maintenance, I went ahead with the purchase. Additionally, BMW's distinction in its Customer Satisfaction Index convinced me that it was a right choice. * In November 2012, the vehicle couldn't start after being parked at my home porch and had to be towed to Ingress Auto. Subsequently I was told there was liquid in the oil sump. Further inspection by Ingress verified claim that the vehicle was not involved in any flood damage. Unfortunately, that was when my nightmare started.

It took almost 1 month before any test or inspection was done on the vehicle judging from the report. Ingress stated that they have to wait for BMW Malaysia's instruction.

To cut a long story short, the conclusion of Ingress' finding is that the liquid came from 'external source' thus not eligible for warranty claim. They have also claimed that there is no damage to the engine such as cracked block, warped head, etc.

If that's the case then my question is:-

1) Why would a good engine have liquid in its oil sump in the first place? To date Ingress is not able to find the source. Failing to locate a problem doesn't mean the problem is non-existant. THERE IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING WRONG WITH THE ENGINE.

2) If they are implying that the owner inadvertently filled water into the engine instead of the coolant reservoir, it's ABSURD, RIDICULOUS & ILLOGICAL. Why one do so to a perfectly working vehicle then waste so much time, effort and money just to obtain warranty claim? What is there to gain? Even if that was what actually happened, wouldn't one try to cover up the tracks by replacing the engine oil before sending the vehicle in? I assure you I have better things to do than to indulge in such behaviour. I am not a 17 year old with a first car. Besides there's no reason for owners *to even open the hood as everything is monitored by electronics ie coolant level, brake fluid level, etc. In fact we have never even popped the hood during our short-lived ownership of the vehicle.

3) What is the basis of denying warranty when it is not proven to be owner negligence?


-unquote-

BMW Malaysia has since gotten back to me and they are not honoring the waranty claim as according to BMW it is not an engine defect. Their lab test shows its not coolant in the sump nor was any cracked block or warped head detected.

Basically what it means is they cant find the fault with the engine and are NOT obliged to explain the source of the fluid ingestion as the car was not in their custody. They have also quoted RM17K for overhaul or RM40K plus for engine change.

This brings back to the question.

1) What is the justification for me to spend that amount of money to repair when nobody knows what's wrong with the engine in the first place? If the same problem re occurs, am I supposed to spend ANOTHER RM17K for repairs? As it is my confidence in BMW brand is severely corroded.

In conclusion, the 5 years free maintenance & warranty is of no value as we are at the mercy of dealer/manufacturer when it comes to claims. Problem is not due to owner negligence and source is still undetermined and yet owner has bear the cost.

* I would be glad to know what fellow forumers think and what should/can be done.. Your advice is much appreciated.
 

nyantong

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nyantong

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BMW sucks... believe me. They are nothing but ways to blow a big hole in your pocket. Ask any BMW owner and he will tell you the engine needs to repair engine oil leaks every 3 years like clockwork.
 

quadreduce

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quadreduce

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water in fuel from fuel station? go check the last station you filled up, if its true, its not bmw's fault. you can claim from the petrol station.

but, its been few months already, i doubt they will attend such late complain.
 

cruiser

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cruiser

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water in fuel from fuel station? go check the last station you filled up, if its true, its not bmw's fault. you can claim from the petrol station.

but, its been few months already, i doubt they will attend such late complain.
Water in oil sump/oil pan not fuel tank. That rules out the fuel station.

---------- Post added at 01:33 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:31 AM ----------

Try file a report to Tribunal Pengguna Malaysia. Here's the website:

Home

One of ZTH forumer had opened up a thread sharing his experience with filing reports to the tribunal, and he won in the most of the cases. Here's the link:

//www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/general-talk/419089-my-tribunal-cases.html

Don't let them bully us, the consumer. I wish you the very best. :wavey:
Thank you. I'm seriously considering that.
 

ixeo

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ixeo

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why consider? why wait? just go file the tribunal lah.

sometimes i don't understand people like to talk a lot but not take action. but hey its your money man, you can either bitch about it or do something about it.
 

YYC

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YYC

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ixeo is right. That's the only way left for you or you want to engage your own lawyer?
 

cruiser

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cruiser

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why consider? why wait? just go file the tribunal lah.

sometimes i don't understand people like to talk a lot but not take action. but hey its your money man, you can either bitch or do something about it.
Bro, thats why I'm sharing it up here seeking advice and opinion. I'm aware of the tribunal but who knows perhaps other forumers might have other ideas.. At the moment after reading the thread given by g4i8y0t, the Tribunal is the way go. I appreciate all the responses. Will file the case with the tribunal.
 
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vr2turbo

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vr2turbo

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Sorry to hear above your problem, but warranty are the same with other car makes too. I have friends with other makes also have their claims rejected. As long as they find is not any manufacturing fault of theirs, they will reject.
For your case, since BMW cannot find out what is wrong, you have to send to someone to check what is wrong first. For you to take up a case in tribunal, I think you need some proof too...my 2 sen
 

EvolutionZ

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bro cruiser,
have you try get 2nd opinion on this before you jump the gun? maybe its due to other external factors ( i am just suggesting) and if you have some sort of theory to prove bmw wrong, then u can go meet them up again and seek their feedback on this engine problem.
but don let other mechanic crack open yr engine because it will definitely "VOID" the warranty even you go up to "tribunal court".....
 

YYC

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If BMW couldn't find fault with the engine, could the engine start after flushing the oil sump and changing engine oil?
 

cruiser

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cruiser

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If BMW couldn't find fault with the engine, could the engine start after flushing the oil sump and changing engine oil?
The engine is still in dismantled state. Unless an overhaul costing 17K or engine change is carried out, I suppose my 5 year waranty/ free maintenance would be void if I do what you suggested. What an ingenius way by them to recoup the cost of the maintenance package right? Its all very contradicting. One one hand they claim theres nothing wrong with the engine but at the same time they are recommending an overhaul or engine change failing which I will almost probably lose the waranty. My main concern is having my family stranded in the middle of nowhere should the problem return, theres no longer peace of mind. I'm outstation most of the time. The car is still with them.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

bro cruiser,
have you try get 2nd opinion on this before you jump the gun? maybe its due to other external factors ( i am just suggesting) and if you have some sort of theory to prove bmw wrong, then u can go meet them up again and seek their feedback on this engine problem.
but dont other mechanic crack open yr engine because it will definitely "VOID" the warranty even you go up to "tribunal court".....
Their feedback is basically they cant find the source of the problem and any defects that could lead to the problem. However they had first hand witness to the problem. The engine been dismantled by BMW. As it is everything is been done by their people. If I take the car out to be checked by my other mechanic, would BMW accept the finding and still honor the waranty? Whats your opinion in this case? As with any other machinery, waranty is automatically void if being fiddled by other than their people. Thats the predicament. Appreciate your views.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

Its just simple logic from a consumers point of view. A non defective engine would not have water replacing the engine oil in the oil sump.
 

g4i8y0t

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Bro cruiser, did this problem happen after you fill up petrol from a particular petrol station? Last month there was a case in my home town where several cars broke down after filling up from a Shell petrol station.
 

EvolutionZ

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The engine is still in dismantled state. Unless an overhaul costing 17K or engine change is carried out, I suppose my 5 year waranty/ free maintenance would be void if I do what you suggested. What an ingenius way by them to recoup the cost of the maintenance package right? Its all very contradicting. One one hand they claim theres nothing wrong with the engine but at the same time they are recommending an overhaul or engine change failing which I will almost probably lose the waranty. My main concern is having my family stranded in the middle of nowhere should the problem return, theres no longer peace of mind. I'm outstation most of the time. The car is still with them.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------



Their feedback is basically they cant find the source of the problem and any defects that could lead to the problem. However they had first hand witness to the problem. The engine been dismantled by BMW. As it is everything is been done by their people. If I take the car out to be checked by my other mechanic, would BMW accept the finding and still honor the waranty? Whats your opinion in this case? As with any other machinery, waranty is automatically void if being fiddled by other than their people. Thats the predicament. Appreciate your views.

---------- Post added at 02:55 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

Its just simple logic from a consumers point of view. A non defective engine would not have water replacing the engine oil in the oil sump.
if they dismantle it, usually they should know the counter measure or work needed but its kinda funny when they dismantle then told u cant find the problem...i also dunno how to give u views:confused:
 

YYC

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YYC

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Not all BMW mechanics are equal. If they couldn't pinpoint the source why did they dismantle the engine in the first place? Just like you go telling your doctor you are having a chest pain but doctor couldn't diagnose the problem. So he tells you "lets perform a surgical operation to open your chest, take out the organs to see what's wrong." And after dismantling the engine they asked you to have an overhaul for no reason? I think this particular BMW centre is really sillysea.
 

sarutobi84

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Just go and open file for the tribunal case.let them(bmw) knos you are serious.bmw just want to fork out your money for the repair.they can say the liquid is not from coolant etc or whatsoever but i dont think they even send the oil or liquid sample for lab analysis.if they do ask them to provide the detail of icp ms or whatsoever test they perform.as a consumer you have the right! And sometimes they will chicken out halfway when receive the first registred case upon hearing.
p/s:I got refunded 9k from unsatisfied service.they chicken out when I first handed them the registered case filed.
 

cruiser

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cruiser

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sarutobi84,
U mean BMW refunded you 9K? Good for you. My job requires me to be outstation frequently, my first errant when I return post CNY break is to file the case with tribunal. I do have a copy of the lab test report but thats assuming we have full confidence in their disclosure..nobody witnessed the sample taken on my behalf anyway...and my research has discovered that the lab test finding could be disputed...
 

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BMW sucks... believe me. They are nothing but ways to blow a big hole in your pocket. Ask any BMW owner and he will tell you the engine needs to repair engine oil leaks every 3 years like clockwork.
And what's your contribution to this thread?


-----



To Cruiser:

Bring this matter up directly to BMW Malaysia, forget about INGRESS. If the cause is unknown, that's none of your business, it's their business to find the known cause. If they claim yr car is flooded - ask for proof. It it's flooded, other parts will be faulty too not just 'water in the engine'. If they cant diagnose the cause of the problem and subsequently, 'suggests' that yr car may have been flooded before, they need to prove that statement with hard evidence. If not, they will have to walk the talk of bearing the cost VIA the 5 year BSRI. U are a consumer - u r not a mechanical engineer, it's not your job to tell them what's wrong with the car. It's their job to tell u what's wrong with the car and substantiate these claims with hard evidence. U can, claim trial to defective engine parts sold to you and negligence in INGRESS for not being able to provide the desired technical skills to carry out the BSRI warranty claims inspection.. and ultimately, sue BMW for poor customer service relationship management and negligent for not providing you any assistance in this. U paid premium price for a premium product but backed up by basic 'level' services and treatments.
 

cruiser

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cruiser

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Issue has been filed with the Tribunal. I've emailed all the press..Thank you for the post Blackhowling, thats exactly my point.

BMW Msia is aware of the problem and they said their 'technical team' concur with Ingress' findings which is bull. Exactly what they did to come to the conclusion, I dont know. I've also emailed BMW Germany.

Btw Tribunal filing can be done online through their website. Its convenient and encouraging.
 

DanzEterna

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cruiser, when is your hearing date 2-3 weeks from the date u filed the case?
what are u claiming? have u forked out the rm17k to BMW for the damages & claiming that amount thru TTPM from BMW?
or u wanna claim that rm17k to get the repairs done?

they might refer u to lower majistret court if neccessary.