A33 Engine Upgrade

[twinhope88]

Dear Bros,

I am driving an A33 2.0 2002. At this moment my vq20de clocked around 105k-km and it still run smooth. Instead of upgrading or changing parts to enhance the overall power (many said this is not really help), i am thinking of swap the entire engine with a more powerful powerplant. Then i searched around and found from the chopped shop in Japan most of A33 is with vq25dd (the Neo) and A32 with vq25de.

Some said vq25dd is as powerful as vq30de and similiar fuel consumption but cheaper roadtax.

I would like to consult our Cefiro bros on the following:

- Any of our bros here have any experience with vq25dd?

- Most of the chopped shops here stocked a32 more than a33, maybe it is still expensive to get a33. Do you guys have any idea how much a front-cut of an a33 would cost?

- In Malaysia the 2005 Teana still using vq23de (http://www.nissan.com.my/vehicles/Teana/M_cefiro/techspecs/specifications1.html) and the newer 2009 Teana launched in Singapore is also using vq25de (http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/article.php?AID=1451). I am wondering why they don't put the newer vq25dd version in it or the DD version not for other market except in Japan or the DD version still in testing? Any idea?

:rolleyes:

 

[seizai]

hightec things normally they will keep in their state... till newer tech comeout

 

[weikee]

the vq25dd is slightly better than the vq25de, but no where match the vq30de or vq30dd especially the torque. Without force induction, the 2.5L maybe able to match the HP of a 3L but at difference RPM.

2.5L is consider balance for the weight of the a33 / a32. Is just like a 1.8L wira not too bad.

---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

fyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine

 

[seizai]

the vq25dd is slightly better than the vq25de, but no where match the vq30de or vq30dd especially the torque. Without force induction, the 2.5L maybe able to match the HP of a 3L but at difference RPM.

2.5L is consider balance for the weight of the a33 / a32. Is just like a 1.8L wira not too bad.

---------- Post added at 10:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------

fyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine

i saw us there got vq30det ff , wonder it from which model...

1.8L wira very good lo.. can direct put 2.0 without approval

 

[excimo]

I have not been posting at CCM for sometime but the disagree of WeiKee point of view on putting highly on 3.0l engine (i.e. VQ30DE here) has triggered me to write.

VQ25DD no way match VQ30DE is partially correct...is a difference of slight:
VQ25DD 270 N·m to VQ30DE 294 N·m (difference of 27n-M, 15PS@same rpm)

If is VQ30DD then is sweet 324 N·m (difference of 54n-M, 45PS)

WeiKee also like to use like 'Once you are on 3.0l you shall not want anything else' something like that. I sometime wonder how powerful is it really a VQ30DE...have you tested the 0-100km/h is how many seconds?

I felt is kind of not worth the pay of roadtax...why some engine are tuned, supercharged and etc to escape the paying of tax for no apparent reason. I mean does it mean bigger engine cc car require more space on the road? Why most demanded Accords and Camrys are still below 2.5l range...because not wanting to pay RM2000+ for roadtax. So to speak also for E series 230k 240,280 V6...etc. I even believe 350Z is a waste if is for power...better opt for a RB26DETT or even a RB25DET. The 3.5l is RM4.3k for roadtax...is crazy...crazy in the sense for paying someone who don't know the money is used for what purpose. Ehhh..however if is a VR38DETT then is worth the pay for a 3.8l roadtax...hehe.

I strongly believe if upgrade for a VQ20DE, from most pref to least pref:
1) VQ25DD (smart for power upgrade and lower roadtax)
2) VQ30DD (smart for power and also ok la for roadtax) but is rare to find one
3) VQ30DET/DETT (smart...yummy...and go for it) but rare and complicated I guess
4) VQ30DE (smart for power but not so smart for roadtax)

Just my thoughts...

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine
VQ25DD
210 PS (207 hp/154 kW) to 215 PS (212 hp/158 kW) @6400 rpm and 195 to 199 ft·lbf (264 to 270 N·m) @4400 rpm
VQ30DE
193 PS (190 hp/142 kW) to 230 PS (227 hp/169 kW) @6400 rpm and 205 to 217 ft·lbf (278 to 294 N·m) @4400 rpm.
VQ30DD
230 PS (227 hp/169 kW) to 260 PS (256 hp/191 kW) @6400 rpm and 217 to 239 ft·lbf (294 to 324 N·m) @3600 rpm.

 

[seizai]

VQ30DD is used on A33/34 Brougham?

VR38DETT cannot fit other car...

 

[twinhope88]

one of our member's a32 here converted his vq30de to vq25dd, he said the power is similiar to vq30de. the same member has another a32 with vq25de, he claimed the vq25dd is much more better than vq25de. Fuel consumption is the same for both vq30de and vq25dd.

The variable timing on his vq25dd only opens at rpm 6.5k, omg, it is almost touching the red line, i was wondering what is the purpose of the variable timing. He claimed with e-manage install the variable timing will response in earlier rpm.

I have some questions would like to consult you guys on the Japan vq25dd:
- after changing the engine, is it consider as a "Modified" car?

- besides engine, gearbox and the ECU are different from vq20de, all other parts are the same right? (like disc brake specs, steering, etc)

- half cut a33 is rare, but i think we can order from the chop shop, how much do you think it would cost for the half cut and how much is the labor and official works would cost?

 

[seizai]

gearbox different?

 

[XTEC]

VQ25DD boleh masuk skyline gearbox, i think. coz some model skyline using VQ25DD engine.

VQ25DD producing 215hp and 275Nm from 2.5l of displacement for skyline.

btw today i asking about VQ25DD engine from chop chop shop, they tell they only know cefiro engine

 

[excimo]

Any change of car character (safety, performance and stability) is considered modification I believe. Therefore an engine change is definately a modification.

Some 3yrs ago, VQ25DD mod was about 10k...maybe now still about the same.

Just to share: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_Cima#F50_:_January_2001.E2.80.94 This one is a beauty...if only 1/2 cut brought in then you will get VQ30DET.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine#VQ25DD
VQ25DD
1999–2002 Nissan Cefiro A33, 210 PS (207 hp/154 kW) (JDM)
1999–2004 Nissan Cedric/Nissan Gloria
2001–2006 Nissan Skyline V35, 210 PS (207 hp/154 kW)
2001–present Nissan Stagea M35, 215 PS (212 hp/158 kW)
VQ30DD
1997–1999 Nissan Leopard Y33 230 PS (227 hp/169 kW) and 217 ft·lbf (294 N·m)
1999–2004 Nissan Cedric Y34
1999–2004 Nissan Gloria Y34 240 PS (237 hp/177 kW) and 228 ft·lbf (309 N·m)
2001–2004 Nissan Skyline V35
2001–2004 Nissan Stagea M35 260 PS (256 hp/191 kW) and 239 ft·lbf (324 N·m)

 

[XTEC]

The variable timing on his vq25dd only opens at rpm 6.5k, omg, it is almost touching the red line, i was wondering what is the purpose of the variable timing. He claimed with e-manage install the variable timing will response in earlier rpm.

abang with NA VQ25DD engine + E-manage??

can share what's the feel & xprience with the manage thing, intereseting..

 

[twinhope88]

abang with NA VQ25DD engine + E-manage??

can share what's the feel & xprience with the manage thing, intereseting..

Hi bro, the A32 with vq25dd's owner just sold his monster recently, maybe one of our bro here has bought it..... according to him, he has not install the e-manage to 'cheat' the ECU on variable taming setting.....

---------- Post added at 11:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 AM ----------

But strange not many new nissan cars fitted with vq25dd neo-di, any idea why?

 

[weikee]

Excimo,

If not mistaken, is about 7.7sec from 0-100km on the std A32, i read somewhere, many people change the Y pipe, and decat, can go around 6+ sec. Some website do the information.

Maybe you can watch this one in youtube, YouTube - Nissan Cefiro VQ30DE - Incabin exhaust sound

and the 1/4 miles result. YouTube - Nissan Cefiro 1994 VQ30 15.795 @ 140Kms 1/4 Mile



My Original A32 3L engine die due to previous owner did not maintenance it well. and I been doing lots of home work to downgrade to 2.5L or retain 3L, and after driving many a32 with 2.5L, i have reconsider to use 3L again, and it took me nearly 2months to find the 1/2 cut in japan. Oh BTW, the a32 3L in japan is also much powerful and come with LSD auto box.

Anyway, i test drove many a32 be it 2L, 2.5L and 3L. you will feel the power difference especially on the run. the 2L, 2.5L and 3L g.box have difference final drive ratio, so sometime you wont feel the difference when is only one person driving, or normal traffic, not until the car is on the run. e.g when you are on the 80kmh, going all the way to 150 is effortless for the 3L. Going uphill like genting it can climb all the way to way to rev cut before you even step on the break.

If a cheaper roadtax, and power is prefer, the best solution is get a 2.5L engine, and use a 2L g.box this give super pickup, but lack of fuel economical when go for highway driving.

Many go for Fairlady now, cause the RB engine and parts are getting harder to find, and expensive. The Z33 and the G35 are selling hot now. cause the car is reasonable price, and power is there. For people driving a sport car, the roadtax is their lease worried. Just see what wheels they are using, and the tires can cause more than 1 year roadtax. And it only good for 30kkm +-.

Putting a turbo in a FWD VQ is very complicated and no room the turbo. The best alternative is to use supercharge.

I have not been posting at CCM for sometime but the disagree of WeiKee point of view on putting highly on 3.0l engine (i.e. VQ30DE here) has triggered me to write.

VQ25DD no way match VQ30DE is partially correct...is a difference of slight:
VQ25DD 270 N·m to VQ30DE 294 N·m (difference of 27n-M, 15PS@same rpm)

If is VQ30DD then is sweet 324 N·m (difference of 54n-M, 45PS)

WeiKee also like to use like 'Once you are on 3.0l you shall not want anything else' something like that. I sometime wonder how powerful is it really a VQ30DE...have you tested the 0-100km/h is how many seconds?

I felt is kind of not worth the pay of roadtax...why some engine are tuned, supercharged and etc to escape the paying of tax for no apparent reason. I mean does it mean bigger engine cc car require more space on the road? Why most demanded Accords and Camrys are still below 2.5l range...because not wanting to pay RM2000+ for roadtax. So to speak also for E series 230k 240,280 V6...etc. I even believe 350Z is a waste if is for power...better opt for a RB26DETT or even a RB25DET. The 3.5l is RM4.3k for roadtax...is crazy...crazy in the sense for paying someone who don't know the money is used for what purpose. Ehhh..however if is a VR38DETT then is worth the pay for a 3.8l roadtax...hehe.

I strongly believe if upgrade for a VQ20DE, from most pref to least pref:
1) VQ25DD (smart for power upgrade and lower roadtax)
2) VQ30DD (smart for power and also ok la for roadtax) but is rare to find one
3) VQ30DET/DETT (smart...yummy...and go for it) but rare and complicated I guess
4) VQ30DE (smart for power but not so smart for roadtax)

Just my thoughts...

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine
VQ25DD
210 PS (207 hp/154 kW) to 215 PS (212 hp/158 kW) @6400 rpm and 195 to 199 ft·lbf (264 to 270 N·m) @4400 rpm
VQ30DE
193 PS (190 hp/142 kW) to 230 PS (227 hp/169 kW) @6400 rpm and 205 to 217 ft·lbf (278 to 294 N·m) @4400 rpm.
VQ30DD
230 PS (227 hp/169 kW) to 260 PS (256 hp/191 kW) @6400 rpm and 217 to 239 ft·lbf (294 to 324 N·m) @3600 rpm.

 

[twinhope88]

upgrade a vq20de to supercharge is more expensive and more problematic than swap half-cut engine, am i right?

---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 AM ----------

weikee: what is the FC of your a32 with 3L on normal city + highway drive?
what km you can make for a full tank of ron97?

 

[weikee]

twinhope88,

Full highway, i can go around 690 - 720Km per fill. Around 63liter of fuel used. during CNY with good traffic around town, i can clock 550km. My friend work in cyberjaya can get average 580km per full tank.

For city, is about 450km with 70% of the time are in traffic.

Supercharge is good if you can find the bold on like what being made in US. just control the boost.

You don't have to care about jpj, than insurance things.. here if you change engine even same cc, it can cost you around rm 300 - 500 depend of the runner you know. Or maybe below RM100 if you diy, but is lots of hassle if you don't know where about and what do to first.

Recently i do see some 25dd in few chop shop, but the price are pretty expensive cause is also rare now. Last i ask was about 5k without the body kit.

 

[twinhope88]

Hi Weikee,

VQ30DE with full tank of 63-litre can run for 450KM = 0.25/km at current rm1.8/litre.
and on highway around 720km = 0.16/km.

mine vq20de pumped in 50-litre (RM90) only can run for 440km.
Even on highway, it will go for 470km max.

Your car is not high fuel consumption and powerful.
the only thing is the yearly roadtax.


By the way, is there any bro here upgrade their vq20de to supercharge?
What is the component and cost require?

 

[Ultimate Cefiro]

VQ30DET - FR, from Y33 Cedric, Gloria or Cima. I have 1 unit of the engine but hard to convert into our A32, many things have to be solve, i.e. FR to FF, gearbox etc.... since it is FR layout, problems like timing chain position, engine space and so on..... I'd seen once in US website for an A32 swapped to VQ30DET from a Cedric, n the result, very messy engine bay!! too stuffed!!


VQ30DETT - out of our dreams, this is the special engine used in JGTC Skyline GT-R34 in 500GT in the past... not production version.... u can get from the junk shop who is chopping JGTC cars..... but i dont think they have in Malaysia......


article from wiki:

VQ30DETT

The twin-turbo VQ30DETT is an engine used in Nissan's race cars, primarily in the Super GT (formerly the JGTC). First used on the Skyline GT-R race cars during the 2003 season, this engine subsequently powered the Fairlady Z race cars. Homologation rules allow them to use the VQ30DETT in lieu of the stock VQ35DE. Race output of this engine is estimated at around 480 PS (473 hp/353 kW).

The VQ30DETT was replaced in 2007 by the VK45DE for use in the Super GT Fairlady Z's and latterly in the GT-R.

It is fitted to the following vehicles:

* 2003 Skyline GT-R JGTC race cars
* 2004 Fairlady Z JGTC race cars
* 2005–2006 Fairlady Z Super GT race cars

 

[weikee]

Ultimate Cefiro, how's life. Long time no hear from you.

What is the plan for the Y33? put it into an old junk or salvage the parts :D into the fatty. I seen some website selling the 1/2 turbo for the A32, but only with one turbo on the front exhaust manifold, and leave the rear exhaust manifold un-turbo. maybe you can use this route, but they will be lots of exhaust balancing you need to do for this type of configuration.

http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/the-cefiro-club-malaysia/288259-help-e-manage-a32-vq20.html

twinhope88, the highway FC is lower because the final drive ratio for the 3L g.box is very good. At 135km, my RPM is around 3000rpm +- 50, for the 2L, it will be around 110km. Running at legal speed "110km" is somewhere around 2500 rpm

 

[Ultimate Cefiro]

even the VQ30DET is using this config, it is a single turbo V6..... but it is well balanced as stock lar of coz.... thats y.... also, the compression is low and the piston is harder, make it more durable than bolt-on turbo.... dats y i prefer dat.... but now im sakeet keparah for the piston, not fit our 3.0L block as the bore and stroke not ngam...... hmmmmm

me?? sfsg lor...... my car in workshop modding air suspension.... im now more in VIP than performance...... i wanna mod turbo to have fun only not for racing keke...... here is some of my car's info....

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2510924

 

[weikee]

even the VQ30DET is using this config, it is a single turbo V6..... but it is well balanced as stock lar of coz.... thats y.... also, the compression is low and the piston is harder, make it more durable than bolt-on turbo.... dats y i prefer dat.... but now im sakeet keparah for the piston, not fit our 3.0L block as the bore and stroke not ngam...... hmmmmm

me?? sfsg lor...... my car in workshop modding air suspension.... im now more in VIP than performance...... i wanna mod turbo to have fun only not for racing keke...... here is some of my car's info....

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2510924

Like your rims :), but you need to be careful, make sure the tires don't go "botak", my mechanic recently fix 2 fatty, a32 and a33, both use 19" rims and the steering rack break. I heard is very common to car fit with big rims especially for thos don't change the tires when is botak.

---------- Post added at 04:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:33 PM ----------

Ultimate-Cefiro,

The Configuration of the RWD VQ30det and the custom for FWD DET is slightly difference. If you see the configuration of the rwd Exhaust manifold, it will link all the 6 exhaust into one turbo one sample image

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b37/siluty/mani003.jpg