b16a small vtec

[smallV]

to all sifu,
im a newbie wit b16a,
pop up sum idea wit small vtec mod,hp upgrade,pro n con,parts,gb,how 2 general maintain,ECU,injector,can beat other car o nt(hehe),FC etc..

 

[bien335]

Wait for Shiro-san to chime in.

He's the B-series sifoo.

Basically, power upgrades by using I/H/E.

then up another level. Engine management and the finer details. cams. PnP. Rebuild.

More power doesnt equate to better to FC tho.

 

[shiroitenshi]

like bien said, upgrade exhaust, extractor, intake.

Plonk in fuel regulator, play with fuel pressure,

go dyno and play with fuel pressure. Note peak torque and hp attainable at xxx(2.8-3.5) pressure. (that's usually very near your maximum hp you can get, even if you tune it.

Get standalone/piggyback, get it tuned.

Not enough power? rebuild, go for 2 litre, or plonk in turbo.

As to can beat other car... well....... depends.. if you compare 1.6L vs. 1.6L, yeah, I think you can beat any other car without vtec hands down with the same cc. Even the supercharged 1.6 4A-GE is not a problem. :P

It all depends on your budget, really.

You can play cheap cheap, and get reasonable power out, and you can pour in more money for more power.

You can go from 1st stage to 5th in one shot, or you can do it in stages. Either way, it all depends on how 'fast you want to go', and how 'soon' you want to get there.. :P

 

[caleb_5375]

the small V and big V different izzit at the camshaft ? the lifting ? or izzit other fact also got different....such as ecu..and etc...
or izzit we change it to big V cylinder head will give us more power ?

bro smallV if u wan to tapao 4age no matter 20v or 16 is easy lah...i am driving one....if supercharger wit pulley moded then it is a challenge we like to see.....

 

[shiroitenshi]

well, if different blower pulley, make sure it's enough runs so the fella blows his engine first from overboost. hehehe. :P

Probably the main difference is ECU, OBD-0 vs. OBD 1.
Injectors are different too, if you're on the CRX, peak hold vs. saturated.

Camshaft wise.. well, dunno, hard to say.

TB, slight differences in MAP sensor location.. forgot if the small V has similar butterfly size and venturi.. I think so. Even earlier gen EGs have the MAP sensor on the firewall like CRX. (mine is like that) so it should be considered earlier gen B16A, but it still made good hp out.. more than the second gen ek B16a :P

The difference in output of the big V and small V I don't think is that great. It's hard to imagine the small V being inferior in power to the big V just because the intake manifold & exhaust system is slightly different. (comparing stock to stock)

The main difference in terms of performance should come from the gearbox ratios. The ratios are vastly different, and you can see how the Y1 gear ratio is rather heavy, comparatively with the Y21 of the big V engine gearboxes.

Specnically Speaking: B-series Gear Ratio Guide + More!

 

[caleb_5375]

thx bro ....nice sharing ...well i guess i also need do more research on honda....too low knowledge on it .....

 

[fobs]

You can go from 1st stage to 5th in one shot, or you can do it in stages. Either way, it all depends on how 'fast you want to go', and how 'soon' you want to get there.. :P

bro shiro,...
my f20b small V now at what stage ah? stage 1 or stage zero?

thx bro ....nice sharing ...well i guess i also need do more research on honda....too low knowledge on it .....

if it is abt the B series and vtec,... juz take tuition from tokey faroq,... can liao,...

and more technical explanation,... see our professor shiro,...

hehehe!!!

 

[shiroitenshi]

bro shiro,...
my f20b small V now at what stage ah? stage 1 or stage zero?
hehehe!!!

Heh.. dunno... if change exhaust, intake and fuel regulator, stage 1.. since your one near stock... stage 0.5 kot.. hahhahaha.

 

[fobs]

Heh.. dunno... if change exhaust, intake and fuel regulator, stage 1.. since your one near stock... stage 0.5 kot.. hahhahaha.

haha,... i think mine 0.48 only, coz intake also change filter oni,...

 

[smallV]

thanks 4 the all idea..
1 more thing... how if i gonna change my auto gb to manual lsd,how much it cost 4 the all work instalation??
1st im gettin GB,beside that wut other stuff i need 2 change??
im using small vtec,any prob if i use big vtec GB??

 

[smallV]

which 1 better extractor, 4-1 or 4-2-1??

 

[smallV]

any diff btw this 2 extractor??
how bout middle bullet??
piping??

 

[shiroitenshi]

thanks 4 the all idea..
1 more thing... how if i gonna change my auto gb to manual lsd,how much it cost 4 the all work instalation??
1st im gettin GB,beside that wut other stuff i need 2 change??
im using small vtec,any prob if i use big vtec GB??

AFAIK, small vtec use cable g/box. big v use hydro g/box. what that means is that one clutch is operated with cable, one operated with hydraulic.

got conversion kits, but I haven't seen anyone use that before.

a few stuff have to change, some reusable, like the ECU, but have to modify.

One guy converted to manual at it costs him near 4K including labour and parts g/box is 2Kish, after all.. of course, he changed to lightweight flywheel and clutch so that adds up a bit to his conversion costs.

 

[caleb_5375]

which 1 better extractor, 4-1 or 4-2-1??

4-1 is for more pick up and gud for high rev
4-2-1 is for better crusing rite.....

pls correct me if i am wrong ...thx.....

 

[DREAM]

Shiro..

wat is the best setting to go, wat should i do/upgrage 1st.. if i would want a reasonable fc and adequate amout power ~160hp on wheel.. coz need the power only on track/fun day.. normal daily doesn't/seldom engage vtec at all.. current budget around 2~3k..

current setting would be 4-2-1, some modify chip, CAI, spoon exhaust+mid box.. vtec engage around 5.3~5.5k, dynod around 135hp on wheel yrs ago..

I was thinking of overhaulling it or if budget allow blueprint it.. any ideas how much it cost to overhaulling the whole engine+gb, how about blueprint?!

or.. any better ideass..

Thanks a million..

 

[smallV]

can any1 intro me wher 2 get n how much gb LSD frm ek9??

 

[shiroitenshi]

Shiro..

wat is the best setting to go, wat should i do/upgrage 1st.. if i would want a reasonable fc and adequate amout power ~160hp on wheel.. coz need the power only on track/fun day.. normal daily doesn't/seldom engage vtec at all.. current budget around 2~3k..

current setting would be 4-2-1, some modify chip, CAI, spoon exhaust+mid box.. vtec engage around 5.3~5.5k, dynod around 135hp on wheel yrs ago..

I was thinking of overhaulling it or if budget allow blueprint it.. any ideas how much it cost to overhaulling the whole engine+gb, how about blueprint?!

or.. any better ideass..

Thanks a million..

Well, here's an old thread about budget B16A modifications.
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newforums/honda/116780-budget-b16a-upgrades.html

The majority of your money will involve getting an extractor and and exhaust set. Usually I get best performance out with mugen extractors. FGK, spoon, owners that traded in theirs for mugen usually say that the car is a lot faster with mugen headers.

I'd suggest you check on engine health first though. Like how much compression are you getting currently/when you dynoed for that 135hp at wheel.

I seem to get better results with 4-1 than 4-2-1 for peak power though, although some people got better results with 4-2-1, ultimately 4-1 makes more power without needing to mess with standalones and piggybacks, (at least for me)

Overhauling/blueprinting is pretty expensive. I'm doing it right now actually (it all started with my piston no.1 leaking and giving me 160 vs 220 on other 3 cylinders (valve leak). Since removing the engine, why not change other stuff as well, something like that was not actually good news, but it actually increased the speed of my modding plans.

Bearings, gaskets, and rubber seals add up to quite a bit. (actually I replaced my rubber seals when I put in my engine, so I'm reusing rubber seals because my engine isn't leaking oil at all at the moment, kind of depends on their condition once they're out though.. complete rubber/oil seal for the entire engine is not exactly cheap (I forget the exact price).

The price of syncros also not cheap, and if you factor in prices of gearbox and the money required to custom it to something you want, it gets expensive. REALLY EXPENSIVE.

with a GSR gearbox starting at 2K+, expect that to increase when you factor in a new LSD at 2.8-3.5K (depending on brand), Final drive, custom ratios, etc.

when you get to the higher scales, 2-3K nets you... one part.. lol, sometimes not even one part.

And example would be the work done on my cylinder head right now. A used cylinder head is near 1K, but the since I'm replacing the tappets only, it will cost me 600+ for the tappets alone, sans workmanship, so for some people, it may seem like buying the cylinder head is a better deal. But since I'm committed to building my engine in the long run, I'm opting for new instead of used parts.. After all, I'm not reusing most of the parts in my head anyway. I think the money I poured into the head alone total 2-3K, and that's with NO cams. Performance improvement wise, I don't know.. it's not even assembled yet, still waiting for the tappets.

Sure it sounds scary spending that kind of money. That's the reason I do it slow, head prep and chassis reinforcement and fixing weak links (for me, it's the stock rubber bushes on the car) before going for more power. As it is, I'm cracking my bushes pretty often.

Well, I'm just weird that way.. l like high hp, but I'd like some form of stable handling as well, so even my minor suspension mods take out a big chunk from my modding budget.

I'm not sure about the 'blue-printing' part though, because blue printing involves returning everything to stock settings, like crank bearing clearance, ring gaps, etc. Dunno if any shops out there that actually remembers them all to do a blueprinting of an engine.

I'm going to do a semblance of blueprinting for my engine myself though, I even bought plastigage (that will jack up my repair costs a bit.. ) for that purpose.

Well, I'll update once I actually make progress on it. Too many things going on at one time, and the rain is a major damper on things.

BTW, with those budget mods, I already make 160+ atw. No cams, just mugen headers, fuel regulator, HKS intake, and 5 zigen Bordermax exhaust, no cat. It is very loud, so obviously you have to use a silencer for the exhaust for daily driving.

Low end sucked though, which I fixed later once I got my hondata, so if you're playing track, after all that mods, get a piggy or standalone.

There was a car that dynoed on the same dyno, a real EG6, not converted only got 140whp, but that's because he's already losing a bit of compression on all four cylinders, so obviously engine health makes a difference for hp output as well.

my sr4 actually runs on an early 92' SR3 engine.. not a later gen EG9/EG6. My MAP sensor is still at the firewall like EF/CRX small v. :P

Your mileage will vary, but the budget b16a mods should get you somewhere close to that number, if your engine is healthy enough.

 

[integram]

hi guyz.....
im ram drivin a b16a honda integra da1......
can i join......

 

[DREAM]

Shiro..

First.. thanks 4 the feedback.. another question.. where/how to check whether my engine is healthy enough b4 further modding it? any recommended or trusty workshop tat i can refer to(in klang valley(pj,subang, shah alam)? can a workshop wif dyno facilities check n provide wif all those figure whether my engine is still 'young n healthy'..??!

Tats is 1 of the reason that i ask how much it would cost to overhaulling it.. because, up to today, my engine milleage has reach near to 400k km.. i dunno whether is true or not but 3yrs of owning it.. it's still the same engine came wif the car.. the only things i know is i do maintain it 'well'.. i think so..

thankkss..

 

[shiroitenshi]

wah, 400,000! Mine only 200,000 only, and it's due for overhaul already.. actually no, if it werent for the piston 1 valve leak. :P

Well, overhauling usually isn't as cheap as you think because new parts will cost s a lot more than used. esp. for certain items like rocker arms, tappets, etc, which can easily eclipse the price of a used PR-3 head.

in fact, some people simply buy another B16A engine kosong rather than fix, because it's cheaper, esp. if the original engine has too much worn parts.

To check your engine health, usually good mechanics can check visually for oil leaks and then do a compression/leakdown test to see if there's air leaks. sometimes just hearing the noise made can give clues already.

I only know Seong VTEC, Bkt. Kemuning Shah Alam, and LoChi, USJ1 Subang. Both knows VTEC engines because they work on them a lot. There's others, but I don't know them that well.

Good luck though, but remember that new parts will kill your budget pretty quickly at 2-3K. but if you just need to change seals, piston ring, valve grind and gasket, probably no.

RAM, welcome to ZTH.