A streetable 300whp NA VTEC

[TheGame]

Is it even possible? With air conditioning and power steering!! Build and tuned in good 'ol Malaysia. I've noticed from other Honda threads in ZTH that there are alot of non belivers out there. COME ON people..what happend to the Malaysia Boleh spirit!!! Well let me tell you, it is definetly possible cause I've already build one! I'm a Malaysian and guess what, I'm building another one !! So for the benefit of all the non believers out there as well as fellow ZTH members, I will share my next buildup with you guys. Before I continue though, I would like to state that everything that I post up is from hands on engine building experience, and not just nonsense that I've read or heard somewhere. Talk is cheap and K series power is not..I can assure you! Please take note though, I will not discuss certain parts or specs used as these are highly guarded trade secrets. So please do not ask as refusal may offend.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Is it even possible? With air conditioning and power steering!! Build and tuned in good 'ol Malaysia. I've noticed from other Honda threads in ZTH that there are alot of non belivers out there. COME ON people..what happend to the Malaysia Boleh spirit!!! Well let me tell you, it is definetly possible cause I've already build one! I'm a Malaysian and guess what, I'm building another one !! So for the benefit of all the non believers out there as well as fellow ZTH members, I will share my next buildup with you guys. Before I continue though, I would like to state that everything that I post up is from hands on engine building experience, and not just nonsense that I've read or heard somewhere. Talk is cheap and K series power is not..I can assure you! Please take note though, I will not discuss certain parts or specs used as these are highly guarded trade secrets. So please do not ask as refusal may offend.

I'll believe it when I see it..

A round as SDB should do it.. frankly you won't beat the times of the lightened bodies, but if 13's to high 13s are achievable on and EG (full interiored) hatch body.. it would be great.

No need to show dyno sheets, and you can keep your 'trade secrets'.

If 2.4L.. I still think that 300 is the number you can get on engine and not on wheel.. if you can prove me wrong.. congratulations, you just improved the honda modding scene in Malaysia!

 

[hattech-v]

dun tell me that u need k24 to get that...

 

[shiroitenshi]

dun tell me that u need k24 to get that...

Actually hattech.. the main problem is not power.. but the grip..

260whp also has problems getting traction to the ground without traction bars and wheelie bars.

if with wheelie bars.. maybe a lot faster, I think..

Full interior, hattech.. not stripped chassis... some more stock gearing oh..

 

[hattech-v]

shiro, i'm refering to the thread starter... hehe....
i believe it can be achieved... but with k24....
if k20a can make it... wow...

 

[TheGame]

Now let's get on to the juicy part!! The objective, a streetable 300whp K series! Streetable meaning air-conditioning, power steering, driveable with our local fuel octane level and most importantly drives like a normal road car...but with a whole lot more power!! Basically, maintaining the creature comforts that Honda has so graciously given us stock from the factory, but still be able to kick some serious turbo ass. So after many late night discussions with the dude that's paying for all this NA madness, let's call him B, we decided to go for an all out K24 NA buildup. Apparently $$ wasn't an issue for this dude!! Some guys just have it all...sigh. Anyways, strangely enough B was very specific that he did not want any Japanese parts in his engine. Fair enough since he's paying, so we came up with the following shopping list!

K24 short block
Forged pistons (AvantGarde spec)
Forged con-rods
ACL Race series engine and con rod bearings
K20A oil pump
K20A water pump
Custom Crower Cams (AvantGarde spec)
Crower Valve springs
Ferrea stainless steel valves
A custom ported cylinder head (port and polished by AvantGarde)
Jenvey individual throttle body (AvantGarde spec)
Hytech custom build race header for K24
Hondata K-Pro
Exedy Hyper Single Clutch set (the only jap item!!)
ARP bolts and head studs
Cometic head gasket
AEM aluminium pulleys
RC Engineering injectors

What a shopping list huh!! Ok people will update with pictures tommorow. Very tired now.

 

[TheGame]

The mentality of some people never seize to amaze me. Must all Vtec engine buildup be for drag racing only!! 13 seconds this 12 seconds that. There are other forms of motorsports besides drag racing bro. Don't be so narrow minded.

 

[hattech-v]

with dc5 body?

 

[shiroitenshi]

The mentality of some people never seize to amaze me. Must all Vtec engine buildup be for drag racing only!! 13 seconds this 12 seconds that. There are other forms of motorsports besides drag racing bro. Don't be so narrow minded.

Well.. if it's not for drag racing.. 300whp is still kind of extreme.. But you're getting irritated just because of I said? C'mon bro, temper management required...

I didn't say your build was bad.. and making 300whp isn't so easy, even from a K24..

But if you manage to do it.. I'd be one of the first to congratulate you.

But since when are quads considered 'streetable'? :P

And how are you going to get it to idle properly with a/c on and off without an IACV? or going for quads with a plenum like 5'zigen's DC5 setup?

Oh, sorry... you're not going to share the setup.. trade secrets... never mind.. :P

 

[hattech-v]

how much 1 ekor kuda cost now aaa? kekkeke... jk

 

[type_one]

The mentality of some people never seize to amaze me. Must all Vtec engine buildup be for drag racing only!! 13 seconds this 12 seconds that. There are other forms of motorsports besides drag racing bro. Don't be so narrow minded.

Don't start flaming ppl lar.. It was just an assumption, bro.. With the buildup you have in mind, its just natural to think you're building a drag machine.. If its not, then fine..
And shiro's right, its definitely not a walk in the park to make that kind of power, otherwise "300whp NA VTEC" wouldn't sound so amazing, would it??

But like you said, it can be done, I'm sure everyone here is eager to know how..as well as the questions and doubts that will arise... So try not to be so narrow minded yourself.. Cheers, bro.. Can't wait to see your buildup..

 

[shiroitenshi]

Exedy Hyper Single Clutch set (the only jap item!!)

Why not ACT clutches? That would be a USDM alternative to Exedy Hyper Single. I think they make clutches for boosted honda's that would fit your application.

BTW, how much torque is that clutch rated at? (not the clamp load).. I'd think that the 300whp torque would overwhelm the clutch.. say if you got 300whp at 7.5K rpm...

That's about 210lbs-ft on wheel.. which means if 330hp on engine, would need a clutch that can stand 231lbs-ft..

Isn't that the realm of twin/triple plate clutches? (O_o)

If 330hp at 9K rpm... about 192.6 lbs-ft engine torque. Maybe big diameter singles would work, but the honda clutch is so small... (O_o)

So what is the rationale to choosing the exedy, as you said your customer wanted full USDM specs?

But it's your build, not mine, so I'm just suggesting and asking at the same time.

A thought though..

A V12 6L engine on the murciealago makes more than 400 something hp (at the wheels I think)..
you're attempting to do 300whp that with a 2.4L 4 banger.. Respect!

 

[moshpit21]

simply for comparison, coz this guy Loi Song is using K24 block too..

go here | NWP | 2007 :.

click LIMELIGHT and choose the Loi Song teg, just click next till the end of the page, and u can see his engine spec..

he made 307hp (on engine i guess)

-peace-

 

[V8_nutter]

Now let's get on to the juicy part!! The objective, a streetable 300whp K series! Streetable meaning air-conditioning, power steering, driveable with our local fuel octane level and most importantly drives like a normal road car...but with a whole lot more power!! Basically, maintaining the creature comforts that Honda has so graciously given us stock from the factory, but still be able to kick some serious turbo ass. So after many late night discussions with the dude that's paying for all this NA madness, let's call him B, we decided to go for an all out K24 NA buildup. Apparently $$ wasn't an issue for this dude!! Some guys just have it all...sigh. Anyways, strangely enough B was very specific that he did not want any Japanese parts in his engine. Fair enough since he's paying, so we came up with the following shopping list!

K24 short block
Forged pistons (AvantGarde spec)
Forged con-rods
ACL Race series engine and con rod bearings
K20A oil pump
K20A water pump
Custom Crower Cams (AvantGarde spec)
Crower Valve springs
Ferrea stainless steel valves
A custom ported cylinder head (port and polished by AvantGarde)
Jenvey individual throttle body (AvantGarde spec)
Hytech custom build race header for K24
Hondata K-Pro
Exedy Hyper Single Clutch set (the only jap item!!)
ARP bolts and head studs
Cometic head gasket
AEM aluminium pulleys
RC Engineering injectors

What a shopping list huh!! Ok people will update with pictures tommorow. Very tired now.

Your spec is wow !! ,,,which workshop do you plan to do it ?? or which workshop are you from ?? and NA street built with Jenvey ITB ?? and what is Avangarde spec ??

 

[hattech-v]

its from avangarde wshop i think... since he metion avangarde spec...

 

[chris2000]

Now let's get on to the juicy part!! The objective, a streetable 300whp K series! Streetable meaning air-conditioning, power steering, driveable with our local fuel octane level and most importantly drives like a normal road car...but with a whole lot more power!! Basically, maintaining the creature comforts that Honda has so graciously given us stock from the factory, but still be able to kick some serious turbo ass. So after many late night discussions with the dude that's paying for all this NA madness, let's call him B, we decided to go for an all out K24 NA buildup. Apparently $$ wasn't an issue for this dude!! Some guys just have it all...sigh. Anyways, strangely enough B was very specific that he did not want any Japanese parts in his engine. Fair enough since he's paying, so we came up with the following shopping list!

K24 short block
Forged pistons (AvantGarde spec)
Forged con-rods
ACL Race series engine and con rod bearings
K20A oil pump
K20A water pump
Custom Crower Cams (AvantGarde spec)
Crower Valve springs
Ferrea stainless steel valves
A custom ported cylinder head (port and polished by AvantGarde)
Jenvey individual throttle body (AvantGarde spec)
Hytech custom build race header for K24
Hondata K-Pro
Exedy Hyper Single Clutch set (the only jap item!!)
ARP bolts and head studs
Cometic head gasket
AEM aluminium pulleys
RC Engineering injectors

What a shopping list huh!! Ok people will update with pictures tommorow. Very tired now.

If 300whp on B-Series is going to be tough, but if the build is going to be based on a K24 then it is no SUPRISE to me at all. Moreover look at the long list of parts with ITB. I'm happy for the owner and happy for advantgarde to have found a customer where MONEY was not an issue. K24/K20 hybrid doing 300whp is no big deal in USA. It is just that in MAlaysia not many people have this kind of money to spend to built it with the right parts.

I'm sure with customers who are willing to pay this mega dollar for the built, another competent or reputable mechanic/shop would have been able to achieve this 300whp.

In USA, where most of the K-Series scene are now, alot of people with K24/K20 hybrid are doing 300whp with just a single plenum (single throttle body). And guys with Jenvey/TWM 4 throttle are doing like 350whp!

300whp K24/K20 not a big deal in USA scene, but got to give credits to local mech who did this here in MAlaysia.

But to try and share your setup here, you got to give more info on the build. Whatever listed there is all very general info where anyone could just GOOGLE and find these specs to make 300whp.

If its just another "SECRET" then there is not much for you to share in this community but just another advertisement opportunity for your buddies from AdvantGarde :shades_smile:

 

[chris2000]

Well.. if it's not for drag racing.. 300whp is still kind of extreme.. But you're getting irritated just because of I said? C'mon bro, temper management required...

I didn't say your build was bad.. and making 300whp isn't so easy, even from a K24..

But if you manage to do it.. I'd be one of the first to congratulate you.

But since when are quads considered 'streetable'? :P

And how are you going to get it to idle properly with a/c on and off without an IACV? or going for quads with a plenum like 5'zigen's DC5 setup?

Oh, sorry... you're not going to share the setup.. trade secrets... never mind.. :P

ITB can be streetable. If it is tune properly that is.

Streetable is a very subjective word. hehe.. My DC2, i think is fairly streetable, just a bit stiff ride, but i'm sure you will complain like hell when you sit in my dc2. hahaha

 

[chris2000]

Let me start the ball rolling for you.

Hope you will shed some light to our ZTH member that is not so well verse with K-Series here :regular_smile:

K24 short block - Is it using stock crank or restroke to like 106mm crank?

Forged pistons (AvantGarde spec) - So what spec is this ar? Did AvantGarde engineer design the piston? Custom order i know la cause malaysia no one play ma. Or is it just specific bore and compression where he just order from JE, Wiseco, Arias, CP etc just off the shelf from USA cause there so many bore and compression now.

What is the piston bore and compression height and compression dome?

Forged con-rods - What rods are these? H beam or I beam? Brian Crower, Crower, Carillo, Manley??? Is it stock K24 length rods or longer offset rods?

ACL Race series engine and con rod bearings
K20A oil pump
K20A water pump

Custom Crower Cams (AvantGarde spec) - Err... Again did AvantGarde engineer design the cam to his specification with the lobe center he need, peak lift needed, duration he needed, or just Custom order the cams from USA so become Avantgarde spec?

Crower Valve springs
Ferrea stainless steel valves

A custom ported cylinder head (port and polished by AvantGarde) - Stock K20A type R heads are already flowing more than 300cfm @ 28" @ 0.5" lift (B18C-R flowing about 250cfm and USA CNC ported B Head will only be about 300cfm). So how well did the Avantgarde head flow and what was the custom ported done? Did he do any work on the throat, changed valve angle and combustion camber work? I'm just curios cause many in Malaysia does not do many work on the head of the K20-R cause it is already flowing damn well and any major port on them affecting the shape of the port is just going to ruin the head. So i know most local guys are just plainly doing CLEANING UP and POLISH the exhaust track only.

Jenvey individual throttle body (AvantGarde spec) - So what did the guy did to make it AvantGarde spec? Did he just change the funnel or funnel length to make it Avantgarde spec? What is throttel body size? is it 46, 48, 50 or 54mm?

Hytech custom build race header for K24 - Is this 4-1 or tri-y 4-2-1? How to wait to get this ordered and custom made for your engine specs? For B-Series the production model goes for just below US$800 and custom for B-Series is about US$1400 for my car and i had to wait about 3 months to get one CUSTOM made. Please share more info on these header. Really interested on them :X-:

Hondata K-Pro
Exedy Hyper Single Clutch set (the only jap item!!)
ARP bolts and head studs
Cometic head gasket
AEM aluminium pulleys

RC Engineering injectors - What size was used? is 440cc enough or you had to use bigger ones like 550cc?

I know its alot of question. You posted it out to share so hope you will share with the forumer here. YES guys??

And errr... Where is the DYNO chart ar?? :shocked:

 

[J101]

Fu-yohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Since Chris and Shiroi are doing the technical talk, then i'll be the one giving ideas on how to make the world know on whatcha doing.

1. please put the names of the mechanics and owner of the car
2. the car original spec before and after
3. make sure the photograph is clear and concise (both car and ppl)
4. make sure the dates are correct since we want to know the duration of the build
5. keep all receipts for proof purchase. if its from halfcut, we dun mind also
6. results from dyno, tracktime, dragtime

If this is like another honda-tech thing, it better be correct. flames are hotter than hot teh-tarik.

If this is another SECRECY ninja conspiracy, then theres nothing to learn about. it will be as zth as it is. By year 2010 we will still talk about on how to differentiate an EF camshafts with type-r. Even i if know what to do i still dont have money to fool around with.

so keep it up!

 

[lightningfield]

EF camshaft the best amongst all OEM Honda camshafts. ahaks

or maybe hattech can develop AvanTech camshaft (higher lift compared to the Avantgarde spec)

come on. where you wanna go with 300hp engine on conventional honda chassis?