Between Fuel Injector or Fuel Regulator

[Turborized]

Just reacently changed my Yrv turbine to Garret AR48, and there are powerloss because of insufficient fuel going to the engine. which is better, i was told that if i used fuel injectors i can tune it with my e-manage, and if i was to change fuel injector, what injector should i change to?

Fuel Regulator can make the fuel more rich to the engine?

 

[DanzEterna]

bro, i think ive seen your car before, u staying around pj area is it? u frequently use NPE?

 

[shiroitenshi]

Fuel regulator can only increase a bit of fuelling compared to changing injectors. You need 4 times the fuel pressure to double fuel flow injector capacity (if it's actually doable), Imagine pushing 16bars fuel pressure to get (275ccx4) for each injector... lol... theory possible, real life, injector jam first.

Fuel rail volume is also a concern. The only person who can recommend it is your ECU tuner. if injector already around 80% capacity, and estimated not much extra fuelling required, then a fuel regulator can be a worthy upgrade. If already pushing more than 4bar, then obviously better change injector. Injector sizing is based on horsepower output and the efficiency constant. Turbos about 0.55 I think.

 

[papagoines]

Fuel regulator can only increase a bit of fuelling compared to changing injectors. You need 4 times the fuel pressure to double fuel flow injector capacity (if it's actually doable), Imagine pushing 16bars fuel pressure to get (275ccx4) for each injector... lol... theory possible, real life, injector jam first.

Fuel rail volume is also a concern. The only person who can recommend it is your ECU tuner. if injector already around 80% capacity, and estimated not much extra fuelling required, then a fuel regulator can be a worthy upgrade. If already pushing more than 4bar, then obviously better change injector. Injector sizing is based on horsepower output and the efficiency constant. Turbos about 0.55 I think.

this is the efficiency figure right?

 

[shiroitenshi]

this is the efficiency figure right?

50-60ish, actually.. not a fixed value, can get this value also by reverse calculate your original engine and injector capacity to get that engine's efficiency figure.

For my old B16A, although it's supposed to be 0.45-.50 BSFC, it's actually 0.41, based on 190 hp(on engine, not on wheel), 240cc [email protected] fuel pressure and max 80% duty cycle.

This holds true for a couple of B18Cs and B20Bs I've tuned.

For me, it seems the BSFC is lower than what US sources would suggest, or maybe US sources playing it safe by recommending slightly bigger injectors.

For turbocharged, rceng calculates using .60-.65, not .55, but better calculate yourself to get a better idea of what BSFC to use.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx < you can use this to calculate, but like I said, your tuner should know the specs, so he is in a better position to recommend what you need.

 

[papagoines]

thanks... nice info....

err... one more thing, how do we know our fuel pump flow rate?

50-60ish, actually.. not a fixed value, can get this value also by reverse calculate your original engine and injector capacity to get that engine's efficiency figure.

For my old B16A, although it's supposed to be 0.45-.50 BSFC, it's actually 0.41, based on 190 hp(on engine, not on wheel), 240cc [email protected] fuel pressure and max 80% duty cycle.

This holds true for a couple of B18Cs and B20Bs I've tuned.

For me, it seems the BSFC is lower than what US sources would suggest, or maybe US sources playing it safe by recommending slightly bigger injectors.

For turbocharged, rceng calculates using .60-.65, not .55, but better calculate yourself to get a better idea of what BSFC to use.

http://www.rceng.com/technical.aspx < you can use this to calculate, but like I said, your tuner should know the specs, so he is in a better position to recommend what you need.

 

[SkYwAlKeR]

thanks... nice info....

err... one more thing, how do we know our fuel pump flow rate?

google search... find out what fuel pump model u using, go google and search for its specification....

 

[shiroitenshi]

overvolting the pump is also an option :)

commonly available on the market now is the Walbro 255lph. Overkill for most setups.

 

[papagoines]

overvolting the pump is also an option :)

commonly available on the market now is the Walbro 255lph. Overkill for most setups.

yup... my car only 660cc turbocharged with stock turbo.. very-de-overkill

 

[shiroitenshi]

oh kancil..low ohm or high ohm injectors? the 850cc kancil might have suitable injectors for you.
:)

if stock turbo, might as well get a fuel press.. but don't go overboard.. increase .2 -.3 bar only. Some people buy only put 4.5 bar.. even on standard engine lol...

Stock cars fuel pumps usually don't even hit 100lph.

 

[papagoines]

oh kancil..low ohm or high ohm injectors? the 850cc kancil might have suitable injectors for you.
:)

if stock turbo, might as well get a fuel press.. but don't go overboard.. increase .2 -.3 bar only. Some people buy only put 4.5 bar.. even on standard engine lol...

Stock cars fuel pumps usually don't even hit 100lph.

oic... I'm more concerned about my fuel pump... the foreman who swap the engine for me didn't swap in the tank that came into the hafkat because

1. the tank suffer bad corrosion... which he also leave out the standard turbo fuel pump...
2. Since my original engine was injection model (850cc ED-DE) and my ori tank & fuel pump is still in good condition so he left it there... even my fuel line are all standard 850cc injection ones

some ppl says the there's no different between my ori fuel pump and the turbo fuel pump flow rate... some also says it's not sufficient thus needing to change....

... I just want to make a comparison between my fuel pump & any kancil turbo with the original turbo fuel pump flow rate that's all....

p/s: by the end i type this, I'm thinking that getting a adj fuel pressure regulator c/w meter should solve my dilemma... kot?

 

[Turborized]

bro, i think ive seen your car before, u staying around pj area is it? u frequently use NPE?

Yes I do pass by pj everyday using kerinchi link.

But u see my Yrv injectors is already 290cc.. And like u said for stock it would probably opened about 80% of it right? But I've tried using Gsr turbo 310cc injectors but it caused a massive over flow, and can't tune the flow using my e-manage. This was when I was using ke-ve B.o.T.

Some people told me to use both of it. But I think it's kinda wasting getting a fuel ragulator because I already have e-manage. Really confused..

How many cc injectors should I get since my original is 290cc? If I was to use back Gsr injectors would it be enough or too much.

And oh yeah I do have walbro fuel pump in my car.

 

[shiroitenshi]

oic... I'm more concerned about my fuel pump... the foreman who swap the engine for me didn't swap in the tank that came into the hafkat because

1. the tank suffer bad corrosion... which he also leave out the standard turbo fuel pump...
2. Since my original engine was injection model (850cc ED-DE) and my ori tank & fuel pump is still in good condition so he left it there... even my fuel line are all standard 850cc injection ones

some ppl says the there's no different between my ori fuel pump and the turbo fuel pump flow rate... some also says it's not sufficient thus needing to change....

... I just want to make a comparison between my fuel pump & any kancil turbo with the original turbo fuel pump flow rate that's all....

p/s: by the end i type this, I'm thinking that getting a adj fuel pressure regulator c/w meter should solve my dilemma... kot?

If you have issues of fuel pressure dropping at high rpms, then you know the pump is not enough.. that's why the fuel pressure meter usually sits inside the cabin, not in the engine bay. But now the fuel press meter become engine decoration item :)... I think in my four years of using my previous engine, I never touch the setting after locking it at 3bar, so once i locked it in, I removed the meter... :P.

---------- Post added at 12:29 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:22 AM ----------

Yes I do pass by pj everyday using kerinchi link.

But u see my Yrv injectors is already 290cc.. And like u said for stock it would probably opened about 80% of it right? But I've tried using Gsr turbo 310cc injectors but it caused a massive over flow, and can't tune the flow using my e-manage. This was when I was using ke-ve B.o.T.

Some people told me to use both of it. But I think it's kinda wasting getting a fuel ragulator because I already have e-manage. Really confused..

How many cc injectors should I get since my original is 290cc? If I was to use back Gsr injectors would it be enough or too much.

And oh yeah I do have walbro fuel pump in my car.

Fuel regulator is cheaper than injectors in most cases (unless you use kedai potong injectors).

If it's just a little increase, usually fuel pressure bump is enough. since you already tried GSR turbo 310cc, one of the methods to use slightly bigger injectors without retuning is to lower the fuel press.. -0.3-0.5bar should be enough to prevent overflow. (don't confuse the units, 1 bar = 14.5psi) This should help you manage the oversizing of the injectors. This should never be done blindly, so an wideband AFR meter comes in handy here.

I know about GSR turbo injectors because can rojak into a honda with a resistor box.. :P but my prior knowledge rates it as 290, and not 310? or is the GSR RS using different sized injectors?
Question is, the GSR turbo is peak hold injectors AFAIK.. so must use a resistor box.. your original injectors I think is what type? saturated or peak hold?. if about 20cc increase, shouldn't have issues with overflow in the first place unless the wrong type of injectors are used without a resister box..

the thing with emanage is that it doesn't directly control the injectors. I dunno about the newer emanage though.. heard a lot of new features introduced, but never got to play with it myself, since went standalone, and never looked back.

 

[papagoines]

If you have issues of fuel pressure dropping at high rpms, then you know the pump is not enough.. that's why the fuel pressure meter usually sits inside the cabin, not in the engine bay. But now the fuel press meter become engine decoration item :)... I think in my four years of using my previous engine, I never touch the setting after locking it at 3bar, so once i locked it in, I removed the meter... :P.

ya... never understood why it sit in the engine bay..... so i think, when I got the chance to use fuel regulator, I'll add another fuel pressure meter in my dashboard.... since I really dunno how to feel of dropped fuel pressure like

sorry ya bro turborized, hijack your thread to ask my question heee....

 

[shiroitenshi]

Actually feels lighter when it actually drops (slightly leaner actually increase power, but also increase likelihood of knock) but if too much, then of course feel heavy when accelerating..

This symptom also happens for fuel pumps that have power problems (ie relay, etc.) but the pressure drop more extreme than just overloaded.. but really, I doubt you can overload a stock fuel pump unless you start some radical modifications, like doubling the engine capacity, either by turbo or overbore/stroking.

Pressure drops rarely happens though since the stock fuel pump is usually overbuilt, means it usually supports more capacity than it has to. More likely the pump not getting enough power or (has problems with power feeding it.) or 'sudah tua',

 

[papagoines]

thanks for the info... actually most mechs/daihatsu otais recommends me to upgrade to denso fuel pump found in Wira 1.6 DOHC car alongside the afpr installation.... they say it can support kei-car producing up to 200hp. The main advantages as they say is plug-and-play and relatively cheap circa rm150

Actually feels lighter when it actually drops (slightly leaner actually increase power, but also increase likelihood of knock) but if too much, then of course feel heavy when accelerating..

This symptom also happens for fuel pumps that have power problems (ie relay, etc.)

Pressure drops rarely happens though since the stock fuel pump is usually overbuilt, means it usually supports more capacity than it has to. More likely the pump not getting enough power or (has problems with power feeding it.) or 'sudah tua',

 

[shiroitenshi]

Yeah, like I said, fuel pump overbuilt, so the 1.6 wira is a good choice (you don't see wira's making 200hp, but their fuel pumps supposedly support that much?) perhaps an overeager estimate lol, but yeah the 1.6 pump should last you for future mods. for the price, I think forget about testing if the stock pump enough for not.. just pasang only.. :) unless you are particular like me, which means buying new things if it involves moving parts.

Oh, installing higher capacity fuel pump usually results in higher fuel pressure, so might need to readjust the fuel regulator (unless you're using returnless fuel systems, then forget I mention the fuel regulator part)

I do think Walbro is a little overkill.. Wish they'd bring slightly smaller ones for N/A cars. 255lph.. I'm not making more than 300hp++ lol

 

[DanzEterna]

turborised,
is your myvi black with gold rims, using turbo + ssqv?

 

[papagoines]

Yeah, like I said, fuel pump overbuilt, so the 1.6 wira is a good choice (you don't see wira's making 200hp, but their fuel pumps supposedly support that much?) perhaps an overeager estimate lol, but yeah the 1.6 pump should last you for future mods. for the price, I think forget about testing if the stock pump enough for not.. just pasang only.. :) unless you are particular like me, which means buying new things if it involves moving parts.

Oh, installing higher capacity fuel pump usually results in higher fuel pressure, so might need to readjust the fuel regulator (unless you're using returnless fuel systems, then forget I mention the fuel regulator part)

I do think Walbro is a little overkill.. Wish they'd bring slightly smaller ones for N/A cars. 255lph.. I'm not making more than 300hp++ lol

hahaha... agreed

A few otai with 150++hp used this pump... after they started breaching the 200hp mark then they switch to walbro.... max i've heard is 220whp on 660cc block!

so I think I might go ahead with the pump + fuel regulator (I have the return pipe hehe) combo.... I'm not that adventurous in car modding... even my target hp is very modest... around 80hp @ engine (my engine is factory rated 64hp @ engine)

 

[shiroitenshi]

Heh.. 200hp+ on 660cc? I hate to think of the time it takes to spool the turbo to full boost.