Turbocharged 20V Blacktop

[Veloc]

vh-101!

You are the man... Damn... You are side by side to Pedro who got the 300 hp 4AFE...

Erm... But I think yours has a lot of mods. Can consider a very big project. I think it can be done on a 5k budget also... Of course not as god as your la... What I've seen before is:

- retain all internals
- 2.0 mm metal gasket
- blacktop turbo injectors (don't know from what maker) or stock injctors with additional injectors at manifold.
- piggyback
- used TD04/TD05
- used intercooler
- custom made extractor and pipings...
- BOV

That's about it... Cost about 4 - 5k...

There is a shop near my place that offer BOT on Myvi and proton for 2.5k all done... All brand new parts but china... Haha... Don't dare to do that la...

 

[chek_corolla]

why waste a good high compression engine by putting in a turbo?
Are you looking to build a dyno queen or dragster or tracker?

 

[Veloc]

why waste a good high compression engine by putting in a turbo?
Are you looking to build a dyno queen or dragster or tracker?

Actually... Yes and no I think... It depends on what you like... I love the high revving nature of the BT... But then again, the 4AGE engines serves as a strong base where many modifications can be done in many ways. Some in NA, some turbo. So if one turbo the BT, it would b a waste to the high compression high revving nature, but they will be making use of the strong base of that engine to create power also... I think both has its beauty...

 

[chek_corolla]

you mean strong base as in the block itself or the internals?

 

[Veloc]

you mean strong base as in the block itself or the internals?

Block but internals as well. Overall, this engine is a good, strong platform. A starting point where one can move their way up in modding...

 

[nappx]

NA - keep it NA
wanna TURBO - go for TURBO

 

[tonyops]

seems like not an easy job err.. But if we compare on the fuel consumption, turbocharged cars consumed more fuel or NA cars? Of course considering the same habit of driving la.. So which one of these more fuel saving?

 

[vh-101]

vh-101!

You are the man... Damn... You are side by side to Pedro who got the 300 hp 4AFE...

Erm... But I think yours has a lot of mods. Can consider a very big project. I think it can be done on a 5k budget also... Of course not as god as your la... What I've seen before is:

- retain all internals
- 2.0 mm metal gasket
- blacktop turbo injectors (don't know from what maker) or stock injctors with additional injectors at manifold.
- piggyback
- used TD04/TD05
- used intercooler
- custom made extractor and pipings...
- BOV

That's about it... Cost about 4 - 5k...

There is a shop near my place that offer BOT on Myvi and proton for 2.5k all done... All brand new parts but china... Haha... Don't dare to do that la...

Sorry bro i dont mean to look down or what but with that kind of mods i think is better to keep that 20v NA. because with piggy back for 20v turbo and that turbo, you wont got any satisfaction of power. Bear in mind in your mod list fuel pump and regulator is very important too. Mayb you can use 1j injectors as gZE injector is not the same type with 20v.

Well, if lets say piggy back i would say take 4AGZE, take out the charger and bolt the turbo. then that power is very very good with TD04 and Emanage. Trust me i have few friends here are using these setup and the results are good too.

seems like not an easy job err.. But if we compare on the fuel consumption, turbocharged cars consumed more fuel or NA cars? Of course considering the same habit of driving la.. So which one of these more fuel saving?

Well bro, of coz NA is much much more fuel saving and easy to maintain. For me my 20v turbo is just my weekend car. Cant tahan lah it consume lots of fuel because its a standalone system. if piggy back of coz more fuel saving.

For the general questions, why mod a high compression turbo? Can't really answer you but the result is magnificent as you have 4-throttles with more valves turbo. But.... there is always a but.. to get less headache, pls go for 4agze and bolt turbo by throwing away the charger lah. If 20v turbo, you'll have to get a very good tuner and need to match the VVT opening and closing with a good Standalone. Bear in mind that Microtech is very very difficult to control 20v 4 throttle and unable to trigger VVT. Only Haltech can trigger it (e.g. ON and OFF). You need to off the VVT if the VVT is on all the way you HP on the Dyno graph will not go up. We cannot use VVT like VTEC function to trigger.

so please get ask the tuner what you wan before get the right management system.

 

[speed2horizon]

Sorry bro i dont mean to look down or what but with that kind of mods i think is better to keep that 20v NA. because with piggy back for 20v turbo and that turbo, you wont got any satisfaction of power. Bear in mind in your mod list fuel pump and regulator is very important too. Mayb you can use 1j injectors as gZE injector is not the same type with 20v.

Well, if lets say piggy back i would say take 4AGZE, take out the charger and bolt the turbo. then that power is very very good with TD04 and Emanage. Trust me i have few friends here are using these setup and the results are good too.



Well bro, of coz NA is much much more fuel saving and easy to maintain. For me my 20v turbo is just my weekend car. Cant tahan lah it consume lots of fuel because its a standalone system. if piggy back of coz more fuel saving.

For the general questions, why mod a high compression turbo? Can't really answer you but the result is magnificent as you have 4-throttles with more valves turbo. But.... there is always a but.. to get less headache, pls go for 4agze and bolt turbo by throwing away the charger lah. If 20v turbo, you'll have to get a very good tuner and need to match the VVT opening and closing with a good Standalone. Bear in mind that Microtech is very very difficult to control 20v 4 throttle and unable to trigger VVT. Only Haltech can trigger it (e.g. ON and OFF). You need to off the VVT if the VVT is on all the way you HP on the Dyno graph will not go up. We cannot use VVT like VTEC function to trigger.

so please get ask the tuner what you wan before get the right management system.

I guess I have to disagree with u a little... I'm not sure what do u mean by high fuel consumption on a turbocharged standalone.

I am using a standalone on my turbocharged 1.6L system with FIC 750cc injectors(Yeah, I know it's oversized, but I got it at a dirt cheap price) on my daily drive. So far, no issue with fuel consumption. RM80 full tank RON 95, can go all up to 430KM cruising and slightly spirited driving. Which was better than my friend's 20V BT by stock.....

Standalone is Microtech LT10s with X4. It's the matter of how low your injection timing(ms) can go. Also, how low in terms of duty cycle your injector can maintain stability. Most of the injectors doesn't go well with <0.2% duty cycle.

So, here is the thing. Turbo charging/supercharging is just a method to pre-compress the air before it goes into the powerplant. But, at non boost effective RPM for entitled turbo, u can opt to increase the ignition timing slightly and tune it slightly lean. This is because low compression engine will tends to predetonate much much lesser on idle and cruise. I had mine 15.3-16.0:1 on idle and cruise. No drama.

On a high compression engine, the chances for it to detonate when lean and advanced ignition timing is higher on idle/cruise compare to low compression. So, u have to always stay stoic or slighly rich.

Unless if u're boosting the engine the moment u start the engine, i don't see why TC/SC will consume more fuel than NA.

I have to agree with troublesome maintenance of the engine. But if maintain well, it shouldn't be a problem.

yah, btw Haltech E6x cannot control VVT. Only E11 v2 can. Platinum S1000 or higher can.
Microtech LT16 can also.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[vh-101]

I guess I have to disagree with u a little... I'm not sure what do u mean by high fuel consumption on a turbocharged standalone.

I am using a standalone on my turbocharged 1.6L system with FIC 750cc injectors(Yeah, I know it's oversized, but I got it at a dirt cheap price) on my daily drive. So far, no issue with fuel consumption. RM80 full tank RON 95, can go all up to 430KM cruising and slightly spirited driving. Which was better than my friend's 20V BT by stock.....

Standalone is Microtech LT10s with X4. It's the matter of how low your injection timing(ms) can go. Also, how low in terms of duty cycle your injector can maintain stability. Most of the injectors doesn't go well with <0.2% duty cycle.

So, here is the thing. Turbo charging/supercharging is just a method to pre-compress the air before it goes into the powerplant. But, at non boost effective RPM for entitled turbo, u can opt to increase the ignition timing slightly and tune it slightly lean. This is because low compression engine will tends to predetonate much much lesser on idle and cruise. I had mine 15.3-16.0:1 on idle and cruise. No drama.

On a high compression engine, the chances for it to detonate when lean and advanced ignition timing is higher on idle/cruise compare to low compression. So, u have to always stay stoic or slighly rich.

Unless if u're boosting the engine the moment u start the engine, i don't see why TC/SC will consume more fuel than NA.

I have to agree with troublesome maintenance of the engine. But if maintain well, it shouldn't be a problem.

yah, btw Haltech E6x cannot control VVT. Only E11 v2 can. Platinum S1000 or higher can.
Microtech LT16 can also.

Just my 2 cents.

Mine RM80 RON97 250km. nice FC ? haha probably my foot is heavy.

by the way E6x can control. i did it. there is a function (i forgot the name) which can triggers at which rpm and off at which rpm. U can use that to open and off VVT.

you will probably ask why am i so sure? because i have VVT light indicator.

 

[E6XLancer]

Mine RM80 RON97 250km. nice FC ? haha probably my foot is heavy.

by the way E6x can control. i did it. there is a function (i forgot the name) which can triggers at which rpm and off at which rpm. U can use that to open and off VVT.

you will probably ask why am i so sure? because i have VVT light indicator.

which mechanic do this project to your car i'll going to BT Turbo not very far...but im using on A/T gear...N0 5 speed or 6 Speed

 

[vh-101]

which mechanic do this project to your car i'll going to BT Turbo not very far...but im using on A/T gear...N0 5 speed or 6 Speed

in Kota Kinabalu GP Racing at budusan. We went on both street and dyno tune. auto standalone can ? or only piggyback>?

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

bro tonyops,

so what is your plan now? lets share and we will help you.

 

[tonyops]

in Kota Kinabalu GP Racing at budusan. We went on both street and dyno tune. auto standalone can ? or only piggyback>?

---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

bro tonyops,

so what is your plan now? lets share and we will help you.

I think i'll stick back to NA.. seems like turbocharging it is not easy with blacktop..

 

[vh-101]

I think i'll stick back to NA.. seems like turbocharging it is not easy with blacktop..

Yes. Good decision. Dont change management system as well. Stick to stock if i were you. If need turbocharged 4AG, then get 4AGZE and convert it. Use emanage enough.Trust me.. you'll satisfy with the power already.

 

[tonyops]

Thanks for ur wise advise vh-101
Luckily i start this thread first, if not later buta-buta go and turbocharge it and give me tons of headache, then it's definitely not worth investing at all...

TERIMA KASIH SEMUA SIFU-SIFU DI SINI!!!

 

[chek_corolla]

well, always know what you want to achieve.
Set target and not just buta buta do it. You can always build a wow factor, but it might drive like shit and suck your wallet dry

 

[klgauto]

talk less do more and do it right

attached my ex engine 4age16v turbocharge 370whp @ 1.5bar 10krpm ,

play 4a turbo for the past 7 yrs and did a lots of 4a turbo for my other friend car as well .

now switch to sr20det but still miss a lots of the feel of 4agte

plan to built 1 ultimate 4agte in future .

 

[Veloc]

NA - keep it NA
wanna TURBO - go for TURBO

Good principle, but..
Sometimes, it is not the result. It is the journey...

Sorry bro i dont mean to look down or what but with that kind of mods i think is better to keep that 20v NA. because with piggy back for 20v turbo and that turbo, you wont got any satisfaction of power. Bear in mind in your mod list fuel pump and regulator is very important too. Mayb you can use 1j injectors as gZE injector is not the same type with 20v.

Well, if lets say piggy back i would say take 4AGZE, take out the charger and bolt the turbo. then that power is very very good with TD04 and Emanage. Trust me i have few friends here are using these setup and the results are good too.

Bro ah... I know you not looking down.. But I disagree that you say "won't get any satisfaction of power" Sure got one ;). The question is, for how long only. I believe torque is addictive, and for enthusiast like us, we have this sickness that always hunger for more. Of course can;t comapre with your mods. Your's is like God mode already la! And your power gain can satisfy you for a long time I guess? But what I've written here is a mod with a "budget constraint". Of course if we are not limited by budget, we will all got for the max-out mods... Sometimes, it's not about making max power of winning or what. It is the journey that counts... What we learn and experience along these projects...

About the fuel regulator, I've missed that out.

About the fuel pump thing, I've seen it down with and without an additional fuel pump. Depends on boost.

About the injectors, I know what you mean. The BT ones are side feed and GZE ones are top feed right? But I wasn't referring to GZE injectors here. I've seen a "BT turbo injector" for sale in mudah. But i really don't know what brand is it or manufacturer because didn't care to click.

About turbo conversion to the GZE, I know it;s a lot more easier and reliable, but it's a waste to give up the good flowing BT head and VVT.

Well bro, of coz NA is much much more fuel saving and easy to maintain. For me my 20v turbo is just my weekend car. Cant tahan lah it consume lots of fuel because its a standalone system. if piggy back of coz more fuel saving.

For the general questions, why mod a high compression turbo? Can't really answer you but the result is magnificent as you have 4-throttles with more valves turbo. But.... there is always a but.. to get less headache, pls go for 4agze and bolt turbo by throwing away the charger lah. If 20v turbo, you'll have to get a very good tuner and need to match the VVT opening and closing with a good Standalone. Bear in mind that Microtech is very very difficult to control 20v 4 throttle and unable to trigger VVT. Only Haltech can trigger it (e.g. ON and OFF). You need to off the VVT if the VVT is on all the way you HP on the Dyno graph will not go up. We cannot use VVT like VTEC function to trigger.

so please get ask the tuner what you wan before get the right management system.

I believe whether it is fuel consuming or not, it depends on the tuning. A turbo doesn't necessarily need to be more thirsty than NA. Most "light turbo" is more economical than NA.

I'm a noob on microtech and haltech and standalone systems.... But what's wrong with piggyback. Let the ECU control the VVT and let the piggyback control the fuel and ignition???

I guess I have to disagree with u a little... I'm not sure what do u mean by high fuel consumption on a turbocharged standalone.

I am using a standalone on my turbocharged 1.6L system with FIC 750cc injectors(Yeah, I know it's oversized, but I got it at a dirt cheap price) on my daily drive. So far, no issue with fuel consumption. RM80 full tank RON 95, can go all up to 430KM cruising and slightly spirited driving. Which was better than my friend's 20V BT by stock.....

Standalone is Microtech LT10s with X4. It's the matter of how low your injection timing(ms) can go. Also, how low in terms of duty cycle your injector can maintain stability. Most of the injectors doesn't go well with <0.2% duty cycle.

So, here is the thing. Turbo charging/supercharging is just a method to pre-compress the air before it goes into the powerplant. But, at non boost effective RPM for entitled turbo, u can opt to increase the ignition timing slightly and tune it slightly lean. This is because low compression engine will tends to predetonate much much lesser on idle and cruise. I had mine 15.3-16.0:1 on idle and cruise. No drama.

On a high compression engine, the chances for it to detonate when lean and advanced ignition timing is higher on idle/cruise compare to low compression. So, u have to always stay stoic or slighly rich.

Unless if u're boosting the engine the moment u start the engine, i don't see why TC/SC will consume more fuel than NA.

I have to agree with troublesome maintenance of the engine. But if maintain well, it shouldn't be a problem.

yah, btw Haltech E6x cannot control VVT. Only E11 v2 can. Platinum S1000 or higher can.
Microtech LT16 can also.

Just my 2 cents.

Damn. Agree.

 

[vh-101]

Good principle, but..
Sometimes, it is not the result. It is the journey...



Bro ah... I know you not looking down.. But I disagree that you say "won't get any satisfaction of power" Sure got one ;). The question is, for how long only. I believe torque is addictive, and for enthusiast like us, we have this sickness that always hunger for more. Of course can;t comapre with your mods. Your's is like God mode already la! And your power gain can satisfy you for a long time I guess? But what I've written here is a mod with a "budget constraint". Of course if we are not limited by budget, we will all got for the max-out mods... Sometimes, it's not about making max power of winning or what. It is the journey that counts... What we learn and experience along these projects...

About the fuel regulator, I've missed that out.

About the fuel pump thing, I've seen it down with and without an additional fuel pump. Depends on boost.

About the injectors, I know what you mean. The BT ones are side feed and GZE ones are top feed right? But I wasn't referring to GZE injectors here. I've seen a "BT turbo injector" for sale in mudah. But i really don't know what brand is it or manufacturer because didn't care to click.

About turbo conversion to the GZE, I know it;s a lot more easier and reliable, but it's a waste to give up the good flowing BT head and VVT.



I believe whether it is fuel consuming or not, it depends on the tuning. A turbo doesn't necessarily need to be more thirsty than NA. Most "light turbo" is more economical than NA.

I'm a noob on microtech and haltech and standalone systems.... But what's wrong with piggyback. Let the ECU control the VVT and let the piggyback control the fuel and ignition???



Damn. Agree.

Thanks dont too angkat me ler, my mod is nth compare to others loh.. i am using budget budget also too i think if other more budget will go for like aftermarket pistons and rod those, ball bearing turbo perhaps. mine journal bearing now.

Yes i am totally agree with you, what we learn is the experience from this project. I believe a good tuner can give you economical. Previously i was on NA and standalone, No power and not economical at all. Bad experience and decision to go for Microtech 20v NA. No offence, but Microtech for 16v is good.

Yes you can let the piggy back control the fuel and ignition, but you'll still have some limitations. Well but nowadays piggyback is very powerful like Unichip.. So i cant say much maybe piggyback for NA convert to turbo can do the right job also. As i always told my friends, "Japanese already fine tuned for us for daily and power, why lah u wan to kacaux2 their tuning and make your own tuning"

 

[BE5RSK]

Build it once, and build it right...:top: