LSD Inserts , Phantom Grip , SBR , Powerzone , etc

jinkl

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I was keen to know about LSD inserts and how they work
I studied them and one dear sifu wrote a short note about it.
Remember that this is not a normal person , its the owner of Jacks Transmission itself, Jacks transmissions build transmissions

"I think what wears out the gears and cross shaft with an insert is normal driving, not racing. When you drive in the street, especially the highway, both of the front wheels are never turning at perfectly the same speed, so the front diff gears are always in motion. It may be very slow, but they are moving around. Plus, the front diff is turning at a high rate of speed on the high way, so oil is moved away from the center giving the spider gears and cross shaft even less oil. The way the inserts work is they put metal-to-metal contact and pressure on the gears inside the diff. When they are moving the insert is slowly chewing away at the gears and cross shaft. Some get lucky and it doesn't explode and total their tranny for a long time, others are not so lucky. I personally don't like them and don't recommend them. I have yet to drive a car with one that feels like it works at all and the destruction I have seen from them is just scary. My brother was tuning a car for a friend on the street with one and it let go. The whole area around the front diff just blew out from under the car and he was lucky not to have lost control. I have some pics of some badly worn cross shafts and spider gears lying around here somewhere. If I find them I will post them.

What really gets me about these inserts is many have failed on people, but they never post about it, so you rarely hear anything negative about them. The people that have gotten lucky and still have a working trans talk about how great they are.

Jack"

brands that are LSD Inserts are
B&M , SBR , Phantom Grip , and not leaving Powerzone

and guys , around the world people have experienced the LSD Inserts, only one word "its nothing if u compare it to a Torsen/Clutch Type LSD"

some say "its near to nothing"
some say "its good , but only for mild modded car"
some say "hellooooo metal shavings"
some say "welcome broken diffrentials"



you may find and read yourself i guess, honda-tech.com has some info , DSMtuners has more
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1448112

i dont use a LSD insert but do wish to know more, any of you guys have strong info and research please do post up, please do not come in and just say "it works, it doesnt break" etc without some solid info :)

thank you
 
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tofu_manic

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holy mega-cr@p, batman

after getting the lsd last year, just got it installed recently since it was starting to gather dust

i did my search of info on these things last yr b4 i bought them (from Powerzone), read no issues with these things, just that some ppl have not felt much of a difference, or it didnt last, then again it they were running mega HP/torque numbers, plus the 142 hp iswara was using this lsd for a coupla years edi without any issues, and he is a crazy driver, thats y i got them...but like the article sed, some got lucky, possibly

sigh whats done is done

i guess i shud consider myself "lucky" that i just got the 60% lock one, not the 90% lock version....which from what i understand from the article, could potentially cause more wear n tear

as to its effectiveness, gotta say it works as claimed, in my case la...as to all the other things mentioned in the article, just pray it wont happen :P

jinkl, when was that article written?
 
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jinkl

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kleemeen also use this type LSD at Mercedes 55 (600hp) without any prob....:thefinger:
aha, just mentioned above in my post , no info to against jack , no explanation to discuss wht Jack Transmission has said to the world , be more constructive

as for my research , i knew kleeman was on its way , kleeman's lsd comes with a premium price of USD1000 ? , and it comes with new differentials gear , erm got a click ? please do research, the material on the new supplied differentials arent the same as the OEM's. Please do not say the Mitsubishi differentials are rigid enuff , "Hello DSM world" for showing up all the broken diff's and "Hello Jacks Transmission" , the mitsubishi drag gearbox builders to tell u about it above in my previous posts.

In the world of merce it is often compared to the AMG/Renntech models which goes for a premium price of $5000USD - $8000USD , this is the more better LSD which is for the Merce's and this is wht they use when they ditch the Kleemans , this is a clutch type

"This type of differential uses clutch plates and pressure rings to distribute power mechanically to the rear wheels based on individual wheel slip. As one wheel spins and the other does not, the planetary gears axles force out the pressure rings and clamp down on "wet" clutch disks, which effectively lock the differential."

whe it comes to price , the merce enthusiast usually for a much better complete diff + lsd which is the quaife torsen type-2 lsd
please research abit how the complete quaife LSD which is a Torsen lsd type 2 beats down the kleeman in the review , its cheaper than the Kleeman lsd anyway , more expensive doesnt mean better lolx
 
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jinkl

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holy mega-cr@p, batman

after getting the lsd last year, just got it installed recently since it was starting to gather dust

i did my search of info on these things last yr b4 i bought them (from Powerzone), read no issues with these things, just that some ppl have not felt much of a difference, or it didnt last, then again it they were running mega HP/torque numbers, plus the 142 hp iswara was using this lsd for a coupla years edi without any issues, and he is a crazy driver, thats y i got them...but like the article sed, some got lucky, possibly

sigh whats done is done

i guess i shud consider myself "lucky" that i just got the 60% lock one, not the 90% lock version....which from what i understand from the article, could potentially cause more wear n tear

as to its effectiveness, gotta say it works as claimed, in my case la...as to all the other things mentioned in the article, just pray it wont happen :P

jinkl, when was that article written?
hehe article written few weeks ago :)
 

DonJuanDeMarco

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do not over harden the lsd plate...
need to know the material....
if hantam keromo without knowledge of course hancur ur dif..
 

TitanRev

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Good info Jin. Didn't know the inserts was that bad. How about the KAAZ LSD? Think they are using inserts too. :confused:
 

TitanRev

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Thanks Tofu. Are KAAZ better compare to PG, PZ..etc.. as I saw from information on the net LSD need to break-in also.
 

jinkl

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some new info

"Please check out our transmission rebuilds in the navigation menu at left. Many of them come with limited slip differentials. If you would like to have an LSD installed with your rebuild but it's not listed on our website, please find one that is compatible with your transmission and ship it to us with your transmission. We will install it with one of our rebuilds at no additional charge. We can also install an LSD insert for you the same way, however LSD inserts are NOT recommended and will void your warranty. In our experience LSD inserts are the leading cause of catastrophic transmission failure."

Bump:
do not over harden the lsd plate...
need to know the material....
if hantam keromo without knowledge of course hancur ur dif..
errr errr bt isnt the PZ made of metal
kleeman are made by aluminium
im sure kleeman did alot more research on it as there
isnt any disasterous complaints against them
so kleeman uses a softer material
power zone makes it with metal which is of cos harder
as a powerzone representative, could you explain further
i guess many are looking forward for your anwser as we already have 1XX views on this topic

thank you
 

tofu_manic

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Thanks Tofu. Are KAAZ better compare to PG, PZ..etc.. as I saw from information on the net LSD need to break-in also.
lotsa big name lsds are clutch types, kaaz, nismo, tomei, cusco, may be mistaken tho

clutch-type lsds need break in, yeah

if for nissans, id go for nismo gt pro lsd, very neat, u can adjust 3 levels of 'bite' without disassembling the lsd

for FR/RRs the way to break it in is by doing relaxed figure 8's, ooooorr sumthing lidat

FF i dont noe hehe
 

DonJuanDeMarco

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stock dif, made from forged metal...
pz lsd ,normal metal with chemical hardening...

pz lsd is softer then dif....so the lsd will makan not the dif...
 

jinkl

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stock dif, made from forged metal...
pz lsd ,normal metal with chemical hardening...

pz lsd is softer then dif....so the lsd will makan not the dif...
so in other words there will be metal shavings shed out of the LSD like jack said
 

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