Blacktop ECU, AT vs MT. What's the difference? (and some other questions)

[teikwing]

Getting 4AGE BT Auto. Need some guidance.

Hi all,

Registered way back in 2006 but hardly post here. Been driving a 1.3 EE100 all these while (yeah 1.3 is seriously underpowered, thank God it's manual!) Looking to get an auto BT 20v halfcut next week for my AE100. Planning to go for manual initially but since car will be driven by my girl sometimes, I got no choice but to go for auto tranny. Since it's an auto, I am expecting the power to differ by some margin compared to a manual one. Few questions:

1. Since BT is a high-revving engine, I assume auto wouldn't be able to fully-utilize the power due to the auto gb. What will be the peak rev achieved on average? Would the output differ alot from a manual? How does it compared to a 4AFE (auto/manual)?

2. Will replacing the auto ECU to a manual or 6speed one does any help? Or maybe 3rd party ECUs like Unichip, E-manage?

3. How is the fuel consumption as compared to a 4AFE auto? Current 1.3 though underpowered but did gave me some very good FC. A full tank of RON95 can last me around +/- 450KM.

On another note, I am currently on a 1.6" piping with a straight flow muffler. What's the optimum size of piping for an auto setup? Should I go for extractor as well?

Would appreciate sifus can enlighten me on these. Thank you in advance! Can't wait to join in the 4AGE family soon! :)

 

[AE75]

1. Engine was produced same power, just that gearbox ate the power. So it would be different.
2. Replace Auto ECU to manual ECU, only disable the AUTO feature! So hence, auto transmission wouldn't recognize Manual ECU. Beside this the EMANAGE and UNICHIP are an Piggyback ECU,and it is not able to be standalone.
3. FC is depend on you foot weight. I manage to get RM 60 (Ron 97) for 480 km, and even can get RM 60 (Ron 97) for 300km too.


I hope this can help.

 

[anthenna]

Hey AE75, ur FC is for auto or manual tranny?

 

[Veloc]

Dude... I will say do not go for auto if you want blacktop. What's the point? You'll miss the fun. you need a 6 speed LSD gearbox to fully squeeze the juice out of the engine. Just my opinion. Auto is fine if you have to use it. I will eat up some power from the engine. That is what you trade off for convenience. Nothing wrong with that, but acceleration will not be that strong. Auto has only 4 speed so the ratios are not spaced that well. With every gearshift, you will drop out of powerband. And my experience with 4AFE auto, it is very thirsty. RM70 RON95 for 350km. Auto is only economical if you always drive above 80km/h in long distance.

Your fuel consumption seems like it can be better. You should check you O2 sensor. Most probably it has kong out.

Btw, the ideal size for your downpipe if you use blacktop is 2". no more no less. you will feel a little bit lack of power on the low end. But when the VVT kicks in and the high cams are running, it is the best setting.

About extractor, the standard for blacktop is 4-2-1. This is good enough especially if you drive N/A in the city a lot. 4-1 extractors are better suited to turbo cars. 4-2-1 will give you the best compromise between low-end torque and top end power in BT.

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

I have driven blacktop auto and manual,i would say the auto one is not that bad,and last time i think to swap BT auto to my ae111 also...it is so convenient driving an auto in the city,and the auto box 2nd and 3rd gear is just nice for overtaking,where speeds around 60-140kmh..of course the acceleration from standstill is slower compared to manual but i in terms of highway crusing,overtaking,twisty road,it should not be far behind their manual version..

Just my opinion,and i would consider BT auto if i ever to own an AE again in the future...:proud:

 

[TMYcarservice]

BT auto not bad la... acceleration doesnt lose much to manual...
Jz dat the FC is bad... Top speed restricted... Its not that you want to race but if wan good FC, BT 6 speed is better.

 

[meg_omen]

i would say that FC is depend on your machine conditions...

coz my journey from...
4afe auto --> 4ageBT auto --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w auto ecu --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w 6spd ecu --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w 6spd ecu + emanage blue...
the FC remain roughly the same... 4++km/full tank...:proud:

mod the auto 4ageBT until 130whp... then loses power due to gb...
now with 16+whp... FC roughly the same, regardless of driving habit...:hmmmm:

 

[teikwing]

Dude... I will say do not go for auto if you want blacktop. What's the point? You'll miss the fun. you need a 6 speed LSD gearbox to fully squeeze the juice out of the engine. Just my opinion. Auto is fine if you have to use it. I will eat up some power from the engine. That is what you trade off for convenience. Nothing wrong with that, but acceleration will not be that strong. Auto has only 4 speed so the ratios are not spaced that well. With every gearshift, you will drop out of powerband. And my experience with 4AFE auto, it is very thirsty. RM70 RON95 for 350km. Auto is only economical if you always drive above 80km/h in long distance.

Your fuel consumption seems like it can be better. You should check you O2 sensor. Most probably it has kong out.

Btw, the ideal size for your downpipe if you use blacktop is 2". no more no less. you will feel a little bit lack of power on the low end. But when the VVT kicks in and the high cams are running, it is the best setting.

About extractor, the standard for blacktop is 4-2-1. This is good enough especially if you drive N/A in the city a lot. 4-1 extractors are better suited to turbo cars. 4-2-1 will give you the best compromise between low-end torque and top end power in BT.

Wanted to go for 5-speed (just around 300 bucks more than auto BT halfcut) but seriously driving in KL with a manual with the jam and all can be troublesome at times, experienced it first hand currently. :( All I am looking for is a more powerful engine than my current 1.3 (was just planning to plant in a 4AFE at first) without sacrificing convenience. Might switch to 6-speed once I plan to use it as a weekend/project car in the future. :)

Read that some recommended 2.2-2.3", but most are on manual (5/6-speed). Would you say 2" is just nice for an auto setup? Will hunt for a 4-2-1 extractor then.

I have driven blacktop auto and manual,i would say the auto one is not that bad,and last time i think to swap BT auto to my ae111 also...it is so convenient driving an auto in the city,and the auto box 2nd and 3rd gear is just nice for overtaking,where speeds around 60-140kmh..of course the acceleration from standstill is slower compared to manual but i in terms of highway crusing,overtaking,twisty road,it should not be far behind their manual version..

Just my opinion,and i would consider BT auto if i ever to own an AE again in the future...

i would say that FC is depend on your machine conditions...

coz my journey from...
4afe auto --> 4ageBT auto --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w auto ecu --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w 6spd ecu --> 4ageBT w 5spd gb w 6spd ecu + emanage blue...
the FC remain roughly the same... 4++km/full tank...

mod the auto 4ageBT until 130whp... then loses power due to gb...
now with 16+whp... FC roughly the same, regardless of driving habit...

These sounds like a good review on BT auto. ;)

1. Engine was produced same power, just that gearbox ate the power. So it would be different.
2. Replace Auto ECU to manual ECU, only disable the AUTO feature! So hence, auto transmission wouldn't recognize Manual ECU. Beside this the EMANAGE and UNICHIP are an Piggyback ECU,and it is not able to be standalone.
3. FC is depend on you foot weight. I manage to get RM 60 (Ron 97) for 480 km, and even can get RM 60 (Ron 97) for 300km too.


I hope this can help.

bro AE75, would the engine still be able to high rev even if it's auto gb? Would it have a lower rev cut than manual?

 

[AE75]

Hey AE75, ur FC is for auto or manual tranny?

5 speed manual~

---------- Post added at 09:26 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 09:24 AM ----------

bro AE75, would the engine still be able to high rev even if it's auto gb? Would it have a lower rev cut than manual?

Yes... you still able to high rev even an Auto GB. But what the point to make it to?

 

[ahaw]

2" 1/4 it is

 

[TitanRev]

Sorry guys to interrupt. Out of curiosity. I had a friend who swap his ST wiring for a BT wiring and the car perform differently he said car is faster. The wiring mentioned here is the whole complete wiring for the ECU or a certain part? also, why swapping in a BT wiring to a ST will be faster? can anyone shed some light?

 

[bt_fanboy]

Sorry guys to interrupt. Out of curiosity. I had a friend who swap his ST wiring for a BT wiring and the car perform differently he said car is faster. The wiring mentioned here is the whole complete wiring for the ECU or a certain part? also, why swapping in a BT wiring to a ST will be faster? can anyone shed some light?

Ur friend are probably changed to a BT ecu with a special adapter. BT ecu runs richer fuel so he feel the car accelerate faster... try to google 'ST with BT ecu' n u will find some info

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:20 PM ----------

Gearbox choice r very dependant to personal taste n i will vote for a manual...

 

[stevetan82]

i'm bt auto user .. which plant it in ae92. fuel comsuption is better than 4a-f (stock), u can rev high rpm is u put it in power mode, if u fully press, gear 1 can up to 7900rpm, only change to gear 2 for mine. for normal drive u can juz put it in normal mode.

 

[Veloc]

Teikwing, You do not need to hunt for a 4-2-1 extractor... It comes stock with blacktop... And yeah auto is not that bad actually. It's just that if you are aiming at pure fun, and to use your car for weekends, the the 6 speed manual would be best. It is good on FC also.

But if you want to use your car for everyday use, I admit driving a manual to and fro work in KL is srsly like a bit*h. Haha... Then auto would be better.

Bottom down, it's all preferences. For me, I love the convenience of auto for everyday driving but I find it hard to accept the extra FC justifiable. Because the blacktop auto gb is an old unit, which torque converter only locks up at 4th gear above 80km/h. Unlike modern gb that lockup starting form 2nd gear until overdrive. The FC suffers much if you don't do enough highway driving. Like my case here i sabah, even my 4AFE auto manage only 350km for RM70 RON95 (light footed). I am a technology and environmental freak.. So I just find it hard to accept old tech auto... haha... Just my 2 cts...

 

[blanquito]

Sorry guys to interrupt. Out of curiosity. I had a friend who swap his ST wiring for a BT wiring and the car perform differently he said car is faster. The wiring mentioned here is the whole complete wiring for the ECU or a certain part? also, why swapping in a BT wiring to a ST will be faster? can anyone shed some light?

Guessed he changed from Air Flow Sensor to MAP sensor system ..

AIr Flow - ST
MAP Sensor - BT

Of course system is diff .. and MAP sensor is known to be better ... and mostlikely he OPEN POD thus more air intake and good for high rev ..