who expert in ice please help me....help help...

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appleyard

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appleyard

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oldskolboyz said:
Not 100% laa.. it's depend on current flow to amp.. let say your amp 500W at 14.4v.. only at this current the amp will pump 500W (max) to you sub.. if the current flow at 13.8v maybe less than that laa.. around 400-450W.. Hope you can check with manual.. every amp manual will show/state the actual power rating like 100w X 2 4ohm 12.v & 150w X 2 4ohm at 13.8v or 14.4v..

Gain control is the Volume Control knob.. I don't know why so many ppl are taught that gains are NOT volume controls.. but that the fact.. Let me try to clarify this a little..

If we hook up a head unit with a 4volt (or more) output to an amplifier, then the volume will get loud very fast when we start to turn it up...In other words if our digital volume control goes from 1-30, then a HIGH VOLT output to an amplifier might make the amplifier reach full power at 5 on the volume scale... That not good cause it would be nice if you had a little more swing in your 1-30 range!

And by the same token a headunit with a LOW VOLT output might have to be turned up all the way to 30 and might still not quite drive the amplifier to full power... That not good either..

A gain control in this case will allow you to adjust the amplifier so it allows the volume of a headunit to control the amplifier so it will get loud at a desirable point in the 1-30 swing... Usually about 3/4 the way up. We don't want it to get loud too fast as we wont have a good control as music levels differ. And we don't want it to have to be turned up all the way to get loud either, because since different music may be recorded at different levels if we set the gains for max output with one music source it might not get loud with a music source recorded at a lesser level.

So, by setting the gains so 3/4 turn of the headunits volume knob gets it LOUD gives you plenty of control and some extra above the 3/4 mark in case you get some music that's recorded at a lesser level...
Gain is NOT a volume knob. a gain is simply a matching level of your speaker. E.g If you set your gain for your sub higher than your component than your sub wil be louder than your component means your sound is not balance.

Amplifier output it not based on what voltage alone but also current supply. If you run in high voltage but low current draw then your amp will give low output.

E.g let say 2 cars are has an amp that run on 14.4v. Car A use 8 gauge power cables and car B runs with 0/1 gauge. Which car amp's has higher current draw and power output??

I suggest you read more before making your own conclusion as it might mislead those new to ICE and want to learn.

cheers
 

oldskolboyz

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oldskolboyz

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appleyard said:
Gain is NOT a volume knob. a gain is simply a matching level of your speaker. E.g If you set your gain for your sub higher than your component than your sub wil be louder than your component means your sound is not balance.

Amplifier output it not based on what voltage alone but also current supply. If you run in high voltage but low current draw then your amp will give low output.

E.g let say 2 cars are has an amp that run on 14.4v. Car A use 8 gauge power cables and car B runs with 0/1 gauge. Which car amp's has higher current draw and power output??

I suggest you read more before making your own conclusion as it might mislead those new to ICE and want to learn.
cheers
hope you can read this.. www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/gains.htm .. the voodo lie around us.. I'm not 1 off the ppl inside that group.. are you?
 
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kyheng

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Not really, even the amp is made in China(US brand) is still better than pirated/imatation. Only I don't like is that US company make more money, just imagine they make the amp in China for 200, but they sell to end user at 3000. 1 thing we must know that all the eletronic component when buy in bulk will be dirt cheap, sometimes maybe few cents per piece.

Relax, my friends(Oldskolboyz and appleyard), both of you are right on the gain settings, only some amp is like this and some are not. Based on the Oldskolboyz's website, it is a volume control. But on bcae.com it does not mean like this, even Rockford Fosgate and Lightning Audio also say it is not. So this means both also right as who make the amp will know it the best. But if we can use the calculator provided in bcae.com, then few conclusion can be made. Eclispe HU(8v pre-out) is a waste as the HU volume can go upto 49% with the amp(LA) gain setting at max(4v).
 
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oldskolboyz

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Last time also I tot Gain Control.. when ppl asking I said Gain control.. some stuff call it Gain Or Level Adj Knob & come with 2 rate Volt or Db.. before ppl argue Why in Db coz I'm refer to Macrom 48.13 rate in Db.. to adjust signal before reach speaker... after afew time thinking & look my installer tune my system.. I notice it is Volume Control just name only Gain or Level adj.. Why.. Ist step we adjust signal output from HU before reach Pro, Xo, Amp & last speaker.. as we know HU doesn't have Gain Knob only Volume Knob.. We only across Gain Knob after HU.. Why after HU but the Signal to adjust at Pro, Xo, Amp same as HU... From HU until amp we adjust each signal due to 1 main reason clipping & distorted.. That why I said the Gain Knob function is to control volume output same as HU..
 

gwsallen

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oldskolboyz said:
Not 100% laa.. it's depend on current flow to amp.. let say your amp 500W at 14.4v.. only at this current the amp will pump 500W (max) to you sub.. if the current flow at 13.8v maybe less than that laa.. around 400-450W.. Hope you can check with manual.. every amp manual will show/state the actual power rating like 100w X 2 4ohm 12.v & 150w X 2 4ohm at 13.8v or 14.4v...
So let says:
HU sending 4V to amp
Amp fuse 35A, rated 200W
Battery voltage, 13.5V

Calculation will be 13.5V x 35A = 472.5W pmpo is this calculation correct?
 

acidcoller

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wah..
vey difficult to understand if not expert in ice like me...


:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:
 

kyheng

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Too difficult? Ok, to make it simple :
Some amps gain can be used as volume control and some are not so there is always have 2 version of stories.
Based on the bcae.com and LA website, amps are from few mv to 4v, maybe some amps can get higher voltage, this I not that sure.
Most ofthe HU pre-outs voltage now are around 1.8-2.2v.
Mid speakers power is around 50-80w rms.
HU and amps tend to 'clip' or distort when the gain or volume set to too high(80-95%) where they cannot give clean signal anymore. I call this the speakers starts to crack.
So if using the calculator from bcae.com under amp gain, you can put the amp gain at max(4v) and HU at 2v and see the power output. Then follow by amp gain at half(2v) and HU still 2v. You will notice amp gain at max power is lesser than amp gain set at 4v.
The above calculation is based on bcae, if this website is cheating, then I also cheating....
 

Zenn

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all also the same lah, volume/level/gain from all the devices (HU, crossover, amp) will all increase signal voltage via RCA
 

appleyard

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Gain = Volume knob

I guess someone else can explain better than me.

thylantyr said:
A bold statement would be to say that the majority of
power amplifier design is as described in previous post about
gain knobs on amps as being input attenuators.

The real amplifier gain is fixed, the knobs to control gain
are really input signal attenuation 'volume' knobs {potentiometers to reduce the signal}.

Example;
QSC PLX proamps;
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx/plx.htm

Scroll down;

Voltage Gain = 40x (32dB) across all models.

Each PLX has the game voltage gain by design and it's
fixed. Each amp has different power ratings and the amps all have 'gain controls' even though the real gain is fixed.

The word gain is used loosely and it confuses
people.

This may be the reason on how the issue gets confused.

music signal -> Input attenuation pot -> amplifier input stage -> output stage.

Two gain levels;
Gain is fixed between the amplifier input stage and output stage.

But amplifier gain as a whole measured from
the music signal to output stage is different as you
adjust the input attenuation pot, but it will never be
greater than the fixed gain, only equal or less.

This doesn't imply that all amps are this way, most are.
There is nothing stopping anyone from making the real
amplifier gain adjustable by adding a pot and removing the input attenuation pot.
Sphere said:
Gains on an amp are made to match the Source units Voltage gain...Squeezing twice the voltage through the amplifer @ 4 volts into (2 volts gain setting on amplifier) will yeild a better noise floor and improved dynamics...increasing the gains on the amplifier allow it to accept a small 2 volt signal and use it's own gain properties to increase the signal to amplify it to audible levels...this isn't the best option due in part that the amplifier would undoubtedly amplify NOISE AND HISS due in part that it isn't sufficiently sheilded or designed to prevent noise from entering the signal...(The Source Deck is responisble for amplifing a clean signal)------not the amplifier.

The amplifier gain is a passive helper to accomodate various SOURCE DECKS voltage differences with out the need to purchase a deck with a higher voltage output. Still the gain on the amplifer is NOT DESIGNED to amplify the signal itself perfectly without noise...it is the source unit's responsibility.
 

Zenn

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gwsallen said:
So let says:
HU sending 4V to amp
Amp fuse 35A, rated 200W
Battery voltage, 13.5V

Calculation will be 13.5V x 35A = 472.5W pmpo is this calculation correct?
do u want to know the amp's real power?

in that case, 35 x 13.5 x (efficiency of amp, usually 50%) = 236.25 w rms total power. if it is a 4ch amp u divide by 4 la, becomes 59W per ch

amp efficiency is 80% for class d, and some high end class AB amps can be 60 or 70%
 

oldskolboyz

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gwsallen said:
So let says:
HU sending 4V to amp
Amp fuse 35A, rated 200W
Battery voltage, 13.5V

Calculation will be 13.5V x 35A = 472.5W pmpo is this calculation correct?
No like that laa... there has many thing to include.. HU (4V) just a signal from CD to amp... HU c/w 4V, 5V or 8V will not increase amp power output but only making more clear & clean signal before reach to amp..
 

acidcoller

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oldskolboyz said:
No like that laa... there has many thing to include.. HU (4V) just a signal from CD to amp... HU c/w 4V, 5V or 8V will not increase amp power output but only making more clear & clean signal before reach to amp..

what ur means bro??
 

acidcoller

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howiechoo said:
wow..so many post and reading here..getting dizzy a bit..lolz....btw, acid did ur hu repair edy?

not la bro..

pioneer service in kl os electronic lost lolz..
shit...
i do know whes the location for soon tat electronic

anyone who can hell me plz....................


:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:
 

acidcoller

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acidcoller

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help me plz....


:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:
 

howiechoo

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acidcoller said:
not la bro..

pioneer service in kl os electronic lost lolz..
shit...
i do know whes the location for soon tat electronic

anyone who can hell me plz....................


:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:
wat u mean o?
 

acidcoller

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acidcoller

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howiechoo said:
wat u mean o?
actually i went to pioneer service KL branch but the shop close or bankrupt already..
i do know but at front door shop have sticker word "SHOP TO LET'

now i want go to selangor brand at petaling jaya but do know wheres the place..
very hard to me bcoz im not expert the location there..

so any one can help me...???
 

acidcoller

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acidcoller

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howiechoo said:
u know rhb ss2?
not sure la bro..

dats my prob not expert pj area..

if any one who know any service shop for headunit plz hel me...???