Hear the difference between V10 and V8

skyline

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http://www.f1racing.net/en/v10.wma

http://www.f1racing.net/en/v8.wma

Next season F1 teams will have to race with V8 engines or those who cannot afford the development will be permitted to run restricted V10 engines. The new engines have about 20% less power and so not only is the power lower, so is the sound of the engine. F1Racing.net brings you two sound clips from testing in Barcelona this morning to hear the difference of the V10 and V8 engine.

The sound clips were recorded this morning in Barcelona during winter testing. The first clip is a restricted V10 engine, driven by Vitantonio Liuzzi in the Scuderia Toro Rosso car. The second clip is the Mercedes V8 engine that Pedro de la Rosa is driving.

copied from http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=104191
 
Aww man, sounds lethargic already.... No doubt it's still a beautiful sound but.... something just isn't quite rite... *laughs*
 
the v8 sounds like a minardi v10.. no offence to minardi fans..

i heard the v8's are posting faster times in catalunya than this years fastest race time..
 
The V8 sounds reminds me of the 1980's F1 video games...Looks very much like it.

Btw are V8 engines being used in the 1980's?
 
personally i dont really like the sound of the V8 (if the sound in the clip is the actual sound we are going to hear in 2006) coz it sounds to me to be a low rev V10 :P

strange thing is, previously ppl claimed that V8 will rev higher than V10, but from the clip it doesnt seem to be the case...
 
ferari trying to downplay their performance next year..

they use to race them back in the day man, if i remember they were once the only cars to stay witht a V8 while everyone swithced to V10...
and i wonder whats in a 360 modena..
 
i am thinking...last season engine was 3.0 V10 meaning every cylinder has about 300cc rite?

for 2006 season, a couple of cylinders need to chopped off, and displacement to 2400cc.

simple calculation shows 300cc x 8 cylinders = 2400cc.

its not so difficult isnt it? just go back to the drawing board and chopped off the last 2 cylinders. i know things are easier said than done but theoretically its just that. F1 cars are getting to fast nowadays, reducing 2 cylinders hopefully will make them slower...

ferrari always rely on V12 or Boxer 12 engines since long ago for their F1 cars. never a V8. but next season is gonna be interesting. well i hope so.

i wish ferrari will be back in the top league and challenge renault. hope honda, toyota, bmw and mclaren will give renault a hard time next year.
 
zan said:
its not so difficult isnt it? just go back to the drawing board and chopped off the last 2 cylinders. i know things are easier said than done but theoretically its just that. F1 cars are getting to fast nowadays, reducing 2 cylinders hopefully will make them slower...

not that easy.

cooling systems, vibrations(since the engine & gearbox are stressed members), manifolds (exhaust and intake), bla bla bla...all these needs to be totally re engineered to meet the new rules specifications, which imho, is quite anal.

Wikipedia said:
ARTICLE 5: ENGINE
5.1 Engine specification:
5.1.1
Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted.
5.1.2 Subject only to Article 5.2, engine capacity must not exceed 2400 cc.
5.1.3 Supercharging is forbidden.
5.1.4 All engines must have 8 cylinders arranged in a 90º “V” configuration and the normal section of each cylinder must be circular.
5.1.5 Engines must have two inlet and two exhaust valves per cylinder.
Only reciprocating poppet valves are permitted.
The sealing interface between the moving valve component and the stationary engine component must be circular.
5.2 Alternative engines:
For 2006 and 2007 only, the FIA reserves the right to allow any team to use an engine complying with the 2005 engine regulations, provided its maximum crankshaft rotational speed does not exceed a limit fixed from time to time by the FIA so as to ensure that such an engine will only be used by a team which does not have access to a competitive 2.4 litre V8 engine.
5.3 Other means of propulsion:
5.3.1
Subject only to Article 5.2, the use of any device, other than the 2.4 litre, four stroke engine described in 5.1 above, to power the car, is not permitted.
5.3.2 The total amount of recoverable energy stored on the car must not exceed 300kJ, any which may be recovered at a rate greater than 2kW must not exceed 20kJ.
5.4 Engine dimensions:
5.4.1
Cylinder bore diameter may not exceed 98mm.
5.4.2 Cylinder spacing must be fixed at 106.5mm (+/- 0.2mm).
5.4.3 The crankshaft centreline must not be less than 58mm above the reference plane.
5.5 Weight and centre of gravity:
5.5.1
The overall weight of the engine must be a minimum of 95kg.
5.5.2 The centre of gravity of the engine may not lie less than 165mm above the reference plane.
5.5.3 The longitudinal and lateral position of the centre of gravity of the engine must fall within a region that is the geometric centre of the engine, +/- 50mm.
5.5.4 When establishing conformity with Article 5.5, the engine will include the intake system up to and including the air filter, fuel rail and injectors, ignition coils, engine mounted sensors and wiring, alternator, coolant pumps and oil pumps.
5.5.5 When establishing conformity with Article 5.5, the engine will not include liquids, exhaust manifolds, heat shields, oil tanks, water system accumulators, heat exchangers, hydraulic system (e.g. pumps, accumulators, manifolds, servo-valves, solenoids, actuators) except servo-valve and actuator for engine throttle control, fuel pumps nor any component not mounted on the engine when fitted to the car.
5.6 Variable geometry systems:
5.6.1
Variable geometry inlet systems are not permitted.
5.6.2 Variable geometry exhaust systems are not permitted.
5.6.3 Variable valve timing and variable valve lift systems are not permitted.
5.7 Fuel systems
5.7.1
The pressure of the fuel supplied to the injectors may not exceed 100 bar. Sensors must be fitted which directly measure the pressure of the fuel supplied to the injectors, these signals must be supplied to the FIA data logger.
5.7.2 Only one fuel injector per cylinder is permitted which must inject directly into the side or the top of the inlet port.
5.8 Electrical systems:
5.8.1
Ignition is only permitted by means of a single ignition coil and single spark plug per cylinder. The use of plasma, laser or other high frequency ignition techniques is forbidden.
5.8.2 Only conventional spark plugs that function by high tension electrical discharge across an exposed gap are permitted.
Spark plugs are not subject to the materials restrictions described in Articles 5.13 and 5.14.
5.8.3 The primary regulated voltage on the car must not exceed 17.0V DC. This voltage is defined as the stabilised output from the on-car charging system.
5.9 Engine actuators:
With the following exceptions hydraulic, pneumatic or electronic actuation is forbidden:
a) Electronic solenoids uniquely for the control of engine fluids;
b) Components providing controlled pressure air for a pneumatic valve system;
c) A single actuator to operate the throttle system of the engine.
5.10 Engine auxiliaries:
With the exception of electrical fuel pumps engine auxiliaries must be mechanically driven directly from the engine with a fixed speed ratio to the crankshaft.
5.11 Engine intake air:
5.11.1
Other than injection of fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, any device, system, procedure, construction or design the purpose or effect of which is any decrease in the temperature of the engine intake air is forbidden.
5.11.2 Other than engine sump breather gases and fuel for the normal purpose of combustion in the engine, the spraying of any substance into the engine intake air is forbidden.
5.12 Materials and Construction - Definitions:
5.12.1
X Based Alloy (e.g. Ni based alloy) – X must be the most abundant element in the alloy on a %w/w basis. The minimum possible weight percent of the element X must always be greater than the maximum possible of each of the other individual elements present in the alloy.
5.12.2 X-Y Based Alloy (e.g. Al-Cu based alloy) – X must be the most abundant element as in 5.12.1 above. In addition element Y must be the second highest constituent (%w/w), after X in the alloy. The mean content of Y and all other alloying elements must be used to determine the second highest alloying element (Y).
5.12.3 Intermetallic Materials (e.g. TiAl, NiAl, FeAl, Cu3Au, NiCo) – These are materials where the material is based upon intermetallic phases, i.e. the matrix of the material consists of greater then 50%v/v intermetallic phase(s). An intermetallic phase is a solid solution between two or more metals exhibiting either partly ionic or covalent, or metallic bonding with a long range order, in a narrow range of composition around the stoichiometric proportion.
5.12.4 Composite Materials – These are materials where a matrix material is reinforced by either a continuous or discontinuous phase. The matrix can be metallic, ceramic, polymeric or glass based. The reinforcement can be present as long fibres (continuous reinforcement); or short fibres, whiskers and particles (discontinuous reinforcement).
5.12.5 Metal Matrix Composites (MMC's) – These are materials with a metallic matrix containing a phase of greater than 2%v/v which is not soluble in the liquid phase of the metallic matrix.
5.12.6 Ceramic Materials (e.g. Al2O3, SiC, B4C, Ti5Si3, SiO2, Si3N4) – These are inorganic, non metallic solids.
5.13 Materials and construction – General:
5.13.1
Unless explicitly permitted for a specific engine component, the following materials may not be used anywhere on the engine:
a) Magnesium based alloys
b) Metal Matrix Composites (MMC's)
c) Intermetallic materials
d) Alloys containing more than 5% by weight of Beryllium, Iridium or Rhenium.
5.13.2 Coatings are free provided the total coating thickness does not exceed 25% of the section thickness of the underlying base material in all axes. In all cases the relevant coating must not exceed 0.8mm.
5.14 Materials and construction – Components:
5.14.1
Pistons must be manufactured from an aluminium alloy which is either Al-Si; Al-Cu; Al-Mg or Al-Zn based.
5.14.2 Piston pins must be manufactured from an iron based alloy and must be machined from a single piece of material.
5.14.3 Connecting rods must be manufactured from iron or titanium based alloys and must be machined from a single piece of material with no welded or joined assemblies (other than a bolted big end cap or an interfered small end bush).
5.14.4 Crankshafts must be manufactured from an iron based alloy.
No welding is permitted between the front and rear main bearing journals.
No material with a density exceeding 19,000kg/m3 may be assembled to the crankshaft.
5.14.5 Camshafts must be manufactured from an iron based alloy.
Each camshaft and lobes must be machined from a single piece of material.
No welding is allowed between the front and rear bearing journals.
5.14.6 Valves must be manufactured from alloys based on Iron, Nickel, Cobalt or Titanium.
Hollow structures cooled by sodium, lithium or similar are permitted.
5.14.7 Reciprocating and rotating components:
a) Reciprocating and rotating components must not be manufactured from graphitic matrix, metal matrix composites or ceramic materials. This restriction does not apply to the clutch and any seals;
b) Rolling elements of rolling element bearings must be manufactured from an iron based alloy;
c) Timing gears between the crankshaft and camshafts (including hubs) must be manufactured from an iron based alloy.
5.14.8 Static components:
a) Engine crankcases and cylinder heads must be manufactured from cast or wrought aluminium alloys.
No composite materials or metal matrix composites are permitted either for the whole component or locally.
b) Any metallic structure whose primary or secondary function is to retain lubricant or coolant within the engine must be manufactured from an iron based alloy or an aluminium alloy of the Al-Si, Al-Cu, Al-Zn or Al-Mg alloying systems.
c) All threaded fasteners must be manufactured from an alloy based on Cobalt, Iron or Nickel.
Composite materials are not permitted.
d) Valve seat inserts, valve guides and any other bearing component may be manufactured from metallic infiltrated pre-forms with other phases which are not used for reinforcement.
5.15 Starting the engine:
A supplementary device temporarily connected to the car may be used to start the engine both on the grid and in the pits.
5.16 Stall prevention systems:
If a car is equipped with a stall prevention system, and in order to avoid the possibility of a car involved in an accident being left with the engine running, all such systems must be configured to stop the engine no more than ten seconds after activation.
 
They have to be anal. Otherwise, these smart ass F1 engineers will find some loophole to take advantage of.

Anyway, if I remember correctly, V8s are less naturally balanced compared to V10s. So, to balance them and stop vibrations is going to be more tricky. And you couldn't just chop off 2 cylinders to achieve a V8. Especially not in F1. It would be less than ideal. They got to go back to the drawing board to cover the basics because V8s behave rather differently compared to V10s. With 2 less cylinders, the V8s will definitely not have as much of that hard edged, razor pitched scream that the V10s have. But still a great noise.

The V8s aren't all doom and gloom for spectators. It is smaller and lighter and more compact ie. the cars will be more nimble and more agile. Power to weight ratio might not be too far off last years cars. Probably go round corners faster if not the straights.
 
As it is now, the V8's are definitely slower than V10. I do think that in a few years time, the F1 teams will develop the engine thoroughly and it'll be equally as fast as the V10's were. But of coz in a few years time, engines have to last 6 races per engine.
 
Never underestimate the pace of development in F1. It is mind blowing what they can achieve in a year. I'm betting the power figures of the V8s next year will be comparable to the best V10s last year. And the lap times will not drop too much, if at all, this season. In a battle between F1 engineers against FIA regulation and the laws of physics, I'm betting on the F1 engineers to win.
 

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