Fuel Savers - Real or Scam - You decide.

[Drexl]

Hello Bro's in ZTH,

I am just a concerned driver. As with escallating prices in petrol, everyone is looking for a way to reduce fuel consumption and improve engine conditions by installing fuel savers and at times, more than 1 product.

Do they work?? Is it really test proven? Does all the endorsement details actually hold true?

A close friend of mine spent a good whole day surfing for information governed by legal test bodies on this matter. Well....he could not find much to prove how good these products were. What he did find was a slew of scam jobs and official government body testing of these products.

If all these fuel savers can do what they claim, then wouldn't there be positive information or the very least, hard technical test data that proves it?

You guys go figure this out for yourselves. I am just pointing you to this direction.
Here is the mail i recieved from my good friend Jobe (drives a March Superturbo) and his findings :

Some info on fuel saver stuff...from gizmos, to tablets to magnetic savers...
The lack of proper information to date on how they work bothers me, so heres what i found, while looking for info on how they work...

EPA Fuel Stabilizer report (pass thru type, seen them sold here):
http://www.epa.gov/region2/air/inset.htm

AARP newsprint on the tablet fuel saver:
http://www.aarp.org/bulletin/consumer/scam_alert_fueling_fraud.html

Stuff about Magnetic Fuel Savers (were most familiar with these):
1) http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2004/11/fuelsaver.htm Federal Trade Commission
2) http://skepdic.com/inset.html Skepdic.com report - Inset Fuel Stabilizer(diff brand, but product suspiciously similar)
3) http://www.massachusettsgasprices.com/Forum_MSG.aspx?master=1&category=1054&topic=136825&page_no=1&FAV=N An interesting forum thread where this was brought up

Theres more links too, but ive picked these because of their credibility source, and the forum one as a pick of the customers voice.

Bottom line is:
Since they are cheap and work, why arent they included with the cars from manufacturers that are always bickering about mileage and the environment.
If a product really is this good, the info thrown out about scientific data backing it seem non-existant. Placebic/Suggestive reactions is whats seen at best.

So before you flame me and say bad things about my findings, do yourself a favour and read-up. I am merely trying to highlight this "fuel saving" gizmo's so you guys can go dig up more. If you find hard evidence that prove me and my friend WRONG, please feel free to post it up. I accept all comments.

Some of these items cost are quite high. We got to look out for each other. Cheers bro's!

 

[Drexl]

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/gasave.htm - more info on the things EPA (US Environmental Protection Agency) has evaluated and tested.

 

[huakenny]

hmm...i think u gotta do tis at discusion forum...coz here is marketplace....

my2cent

 

[GTR]

i think it is ok if he post here. kos most ppl that wanna buy some fuel saving stuff will only surf here.
luckily my I-FC pass the test:- Both Dyno and Customer feedback. :shades_smile:

Drex,
u can come 2 my showroom in 1-stop to know more about my fuel saver products especially I-FC.
U can call me b4 u come. 012-4904888.
i will tell u some secret about fuel saving technology...

 

[Drexl]

Hey GTR...are you the guy from Stromberg??

hehehe...been to your store.

Maybe one day i will drop by yeah?

Thanks for understanding why i posted here.

 

[sakuraguy]

No no no .. u move to General Talk ..

 

[ky69]

I also saw alot of advertisment in Marketplace.Gagdet,tablets,pills,oil various kind of stuff.But dunno it really works or not.My car can't try all the stuff selling in Marketplace.
Plenty of brand,even now PIVOT,Hot Inzama and APEXI come out fuel saver

 

[troy.a]

Guys x 2 (reality check)

How many of you believe in fuel saving gadgets that gives your ride more power? Bear in mind that 3 basic elements form an equation to generate automotive ~ air + fuel + electricity, try taking away / lessening or increasing one of them in the equation and the outcome is pretty eminent.

Its been a fact since day 1 that more power = heavier fuel consumption..... YES, there are gadgets that causes fuel feed in your rides to be more lean, but not more powerful!! So how is it that there's still naive ppl out there that still believe in such claims, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure this out........

 

[Jobe]

Hi all.

First up, I really appreciate my buddy up top placing my email to him here in the ZTH forums, where more people will obviously be able to view and make a judgement call on it for themselves.

Troy.a also has a point... its NOT rocket science :)
Maybe some folk just underestimate the buyers....and some have just hit them spot on.

Just to state my stand here. I am one that will not go for something on the market just because of claims, as ive seen how a product may derive hype for itself without substantial scientific backing.

I play with things like engines and stuff for only one main purpose, and that is knowledge. I will not proceed with something till i have been given a proper breakdown of what it does when i install it, and then play with it till i am satisfied that i understand its interactions in my system throughly.

Thats how i came across the discussion of Fuel Savers and such. While looking for information on how these miracle gizmos work, i stumbled upon mountains of information suggesting the contrary...and not a shred of real evidence to support its claim.

This does not mean i am saying they are all scams(even tho the evidence is compelling)... what i am saying is that i am willing to listen to anyone who is able to inform me how this is supposed to work. I have yet to meet one that can actually explain to me what these things they have installed do.

At most? i will be impressed with the information and learn how they work...heck, maybe even buy a unit to play with it. At the least? i will understand what makes a person get pulled into trying out what seems to be the latest incarnation of snake oils.

Either way, its information worth learning about, so its a win-win situation for me! :)

Uhm...If this also kind of sounds like a challenge to those making a buck or two of these devices, let me apologise up front for being so forward...cos it is ;)

Cheers folks!

-The Ed-

 

[escaflowne]

Just for my personal opinion

A thermodynamic engine obeys thermo law.
Thermodynamic first law : if you give give certain amount of INPUT,you get certain amount of OUTPUT(Consider ideal condition),rmb conservation of energy?
And for let's say in reality situation the amount INPUT definetly is not equal to your OUTPUT as there will be heat loss and other energy loss

So i always look at those fuel saver as the device that makes our engine run more efficient NOT with the less input u get the same amount of output or more.

Our engine is a typical example of an heat engine,it is theoritically impossible to decrease the input BUT maximise or equavalent to the output b4 the decrease.

IMHO,wat fuel saver does is that as time goes by our engine is not running at their full efficiency and we normal driver can hardly notice the difference(unless everyone afford to do those test ),or sometimes the car that we bought just fresh out of the owen MIGHT run slight lower efficiency.

So we are looking at our heat eninge(our car engine) is having a little too much of energy loss which of course consitute to alot of factors.
Here comes the fuel saver,plug it in,test it out and wahlao i can save some petrol!!
Of course,because your engine now run slightly more efficient,and same with the slight power increase.

We can never achieve " Less fuel" and i get "more power" ,it is impossible.if anyone can do so,he might win the noble prize.

I have long forgotten those crazy theory and calculation any engineer can correct my mistake ya

Fuel saver makes your car more efficient not LESS FUEL MORE POWER.If so,i hope i can see the theoritcal proof in calculation.

But anyway i dun feel that fuel saver is all bad,just the prespective must be correct.

My 2 cent

 

[AlmostEvo]

Hi Guys,

Like Escaflowne, I too, agree that to get more power, more fuel is necessary, and not the other way around. There have been hundreds of products out there that claims fuel consumption reduction while giving u increases in milage, horsepower and so on. This is hardly too good to be true. The best arguement is , " Why don't car-makers install such devices in the first place?"

IMHO, such products are mainly targeted at the efficiency (or the lack of it) of our engines. Claims such as 'increase in power' could merely mean restoration of power. Also, bear in mind, most of the engines (Proton's) we have in Malaysia are of the 80's technology, and are not that exactly very efficient. There are also lotsa cars that are over 10 years old (mine for example) and that goes the same for most conversion engines.

Anyway, I have refrained from buying such products till now. I have recently purchased a FUEL SAVER from a fellow forumer here, because its relatively cheap and worth a try. Despite the various claims, my intent is to increase/restore my fuel efficiency. Its only been a few days, and I shall let u guys know if there is any increase in my milage per tank. I also intend to see if my fuel is getting leaner. Wouldn't wanna risk damaging my poor engine.

g'day

 

[si|verfish]

For what it is worth; this link was posted up here some time ago, so I'll share it here with you all http://www.fuelsaving.info/debunk.htm

PS: If you are arguing that these little gizmos somehow increases an engines efficiency, mind having a stab at explaining how this is possible? Because, personally, I can't see how messing around with the fuel a little bit will do that. An older car loses efficiency due to wear and tear, carbon build up, clogs in the fuel supply, less efficient electrics and so on. Even the big petroleum companies with their fancy new petrol with their cleaning technology or more potent formulation struggle to do that.

 

[Tohsan]

aik!same discussion again,I thought its already higlighted in the Car Talk thread.

 

[Jobe]

Ah, didnt know it was highlighted before. But im glad it was anyways :)

Would someone mind pasting a link to the previously discussed thread?
At least ppl browsing here could link back there.

Cheers!

-e-

 

[GTR]

Hey GTR...are you the guy from Stromberg??

hehehe...been to your store.

Maybe one day i will drop by yeah?

Thanks for understanding why i posted here.

yeap, i m the guy in the stromberg in penang.
thanks for coming to my showroom.
yes, pls come again.
as a good zthian, understanding members is a must... :_:

 

[Drexl]

I would have to agree with the Silverfish. Where's the scientific studies and the charts connected to proving these little gizmos work?

As per last night, when we (Jobe, Me and Boon the car/tech enthusiasts) were discussing this issue, Ah Boon brought up an interesting point about ionisation. He says that if we can ionise air, then we can ionise almost anything. Well, Jobe and me conferred that to ionise something, there must be an active participation of energy - i.e electrical current, Magnets are not active by itself. Boonz then said that fuel flowing thru the lines are pumped with energy which causes ion friction when passed thru the magnets. Thus doing "something". HAHA! We dont know what that means...but i guess we are not scientists in this field...

So...CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN THE EFFECT of the magnets creating a positron field between the fuel lines? or even what de hecks happening there??

Thanks to Silverfish for the site : http://www.fuelsaving.info/magnets.htm

 

[Drexl]

-=sigh=- Any Magnet Fuel Saver resellers out there who wanna jump in and refute all this?
If you can prove to a skeptic, it would really help your sales. Heck, i will go out and buy one...

 

[alantan]

kekek..i;'m very interested to comment here..

what i think about fuel saver gizmo?
i personally tried some DIY gizmo that claim to have effect on fuel savings..
during my younger time when i'm still new, i just diy as to be instruct by 'instructions'
DIY such as , 'DIYed SURBO , DIYed Air Compressor , DIYed Magnetic Ioniser'

ok, it does work for the air compressor thing...everything else i mention except for that is useless la..

the thing about teh air compressor is to suck in more air which commonly link to more air into your combustion chamber will help with cleaner comustion because of increased oxygen. bhla bla bla

oh yes..also tried all sorts of addictive and treatmen..like those from minyak kelapa sawit to those high tech US and NASA claimed product..
ok~ they work also la..help smoothen my engine and actually quieter ( alilttle bit la)also but too expensive and not very economic plus it didn;t really do what it's says...

so end up with just playing around with good lubricant oil , good tuning and consistent maintainance...

like a body with healhty foods , always exersise and body checkup..one person is healthy lo..

cars also about the same la...buy suitable lubricant oil and good tuning...

for carburator - tunings is very important as carb tuning always goes off...check the distributor and a/f ratios...the two most important for carb tuning...lastly also carburator has to be cleaned when it needs to be cleaned.

bla bla bla..long story short...

fuel savings can be achieved with good engine management and not really buy those gizmo...

most of the gizmo had the same theory on how they works...they just differ in packaging...

just for your information,
i can get a bad fc when everything goes bad..bad as in RM70 for 300kms on a 1.3 corolla ...

and also i can get a very good fc when everything is going very well as in rm70 for 480kms on a 1.3 corolla...

did i use fuel saver gizmo? no~!

regards,
alantan - just my two cent..dun shoot me ah

 

[satria_95]

I thought all these gizmo watfarkingeveritis has been discussed many times. Why discuss it again? Guess it's holiday season. hahaha Basically, those stuff are thrash. I'd rather spend the money on a dim sum buffet. ahahaha

 

[Jobe]

heh, noted...these things have been discussed many times im sure :)

Still, im glad that Drexl brought it up again as it gives the chance for more folks to be aware of it ... its just bizarre that a large number of ppl in my workplace seem to keep falling for it.

It seems whenever someone buys a new car...hes already been to the accessory shop before before checkin anythin out and gets brainwashed to drop in one of these miracle gizmos :)

Bugs me deeply that there are so many folks out there ever ready to make a quick buck off the uninformed.

I guess an occasional reposting will happen too with new members and car owners coming by ever so often... it'll could help some folks who are seeing this discussion for the first time.

...of course it would be a suggestion to sticky one of these to avoid unnecessary rethreading of the topic too :D

-e-