B16A Max Modifications

[shiroitenshi]

Mate with what rods? 85mm b20b/z or aftermarket? y everyone diam already..waa got answers then suddenly diam haa...hahahahha

That's an interesting question.. from what I can calculate, there is no stock honda OEM rods that can go in..

so either aftermarket, or somehow they found oem rods from another make that fits.

Another would be the piston wrist pin location, like I said earlier.

 

[akuma]

latest update:i roughly know whr's d shop dat did all dis crazy stuffs 4 d kemaman fellas..n my informer did mention abt modding d wrist pins.....n v haf photography proof of how they mod d conrod 2 fit m CONFIRMED those r not Honda conrods..still trying 2 figure out frm wat car.....even a fren who owns a kedai potong dun haf d answer..
tunggu.......................

 

[shiroitenshi]

latest update:i roughly know whr's d shop dat did all dis crazy stuffs 4 d kemaman fellas..n my informer did mention abt modding d wrist pins.....n v haf photography proof of how they mod d conrod 2 fit m CONFIRMED those r not Honda conrods..still trying 2 figure out frm wat car.....even a fren who owns a kedai potong dun haf d answer..
tunggu.......................

It doesn't have to be a perfect fit.. the machine shop can modify the bearing widths, so definitely it has to be slightly smaller than stock honda ones. thing is.. thin wrist pin area on the rods might be a problem.. Like the B20B's with the K20a pistons, using back the stock rods are not a very good idea.

Let's see how long the engine lasts. :P

As for modding the wrist pin.. you have to make a new hole for it, then press in the wrist pin. that's why if you just move it a bit from the stock location, it won't work.. it has to be around 1cm higher or so to be do-able..

 

[akuma]

shiro,
normal ler..modding is basically fiddling d balance btween relability n max power...can't really haf both,right?

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro,
normal ler..modding is basically fiddling d balance btween relability n max power...can't really haf both,right?

Can.. just not cheap..

which is why you don't see people stuffing in titanium rods (well, except for some people) in their engines.

Using better materials usually help reduce wear and increase reliability, but as usual... $$$$ ler..

For people without money.. doing it with off the shelf parts is the challenge.. but these kinds of stuff don't earn you money.. just knowledge only.. :P

But when I talk about reliability.. I mean it will last more than a season of drag racing..which is not easy without some serious funds.. and B16A blocks are not exactly so easy to find anymore.. Japan dried up already I think.

 

[dcloo]

But when I talk about reliability.. I mean it will last more than a season of drag racing..which is not easy without some serious funds.. and B16A blocks are not exactly so easy to find anymore.. Japan dried up already I think.

then just go for b20b
cheap n fast
same costing to built up

 

[shiroitenshi]

then just go for b20b
cheap n fast
same costing to built up

Actually I am going for B20B myself.. it's still in progress, pending parts collection spree.. :P

Fast? Maybe...

Torquey.. VERY... :P

Fun? Yes!

Same costing.. well.. I dunno.. For me, better deal with some of the weak links of the common B20B setup, which is the rods, which are not as well built as the type R ones.

Currently still deciding the final specs of the pistons.. 86 or 85?

There's a few other weak links in the B20B setup that needs to be addressed if I want to make it a daily driven engine.

Primarily the block strength at the lower end..

the block guard saves the top end, but the bottom end liable to crack at high rpms without some reinforcement at the caps like the type R.

 

[dcloo]

Currently still deciding the final specs of the pistons.. 86 or 85?

There's a few other weak links in the B20B setup that needs to be addressed if I want to make it a daily driven engine.

go for 86 mm dc5 piston/after market
if blow then built again

my car daily driving average 150-200 km/h per days
so far so good nothing happen

n get the power wat i want it 230 whp
thanks for edelbrock peformer x intake

 

[akuma]

shiro,
m surprised dat ur still mentioning abt high revving in ur B20 build up...again,is it necessarily 2 high rev??most B20 dyno charts i c...d power will tapper off sumwhr after 7000rpm......so i guess revving up to 7000rpm is more thn enuff n relatively safe,right?

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro,
m surprised dat ur still mentioning abt high revving in ur B20 build up...again,is it necessarily 2 high rev??most B20 dyno charts i c...d power will tapper off sumwhr after 7000rpm......so i guess revving up to 7000rpm is more thn enuff n relatively safe,right?

Actually, you should look at mat salleh B20B dyno charts.. they're making good power up to more than that rpm, at the expense of low end and some midrange.. which is not a problem since drag only sees post 5.5- 6K rpm power (on stock G/box) after the first initial launch, and B20B is really well known for it low end torque, so sacrificing that should still be feasible.

So far I'm pretty sure that the power can be managed by the cams (and tuning), so can move the torque band a little higher for quicker acceleration on the higher gears, even with a bigger FD.. one problem with having short ratios is that you spend more time shifting than accelerating. :P

That's one of the reasons I think that some well-build B16B/18C setups can tapau a B20B. they don't have low end, but the high end torque makes up for it.

Assuming we can strengthen the bottom end at the crank area with something like spoon's block brace.. I think post 9K runs shouldn't be a problem, considering the most workshops here have gotten around the valve/piston clearance issues, and most aftermarket v/s are rated for more than 8K.

 

[shiroitenshi]

go for 86 mm dc5 piston/after market
if blow then built again

my car daily driving average 150-200 km/h per days
so far so good nothing happen

n get the power wat i want it 230 whp
thanks for edelbrock peformer x intake

Actually if daily driven won't blow.. got a unit before, and never blown after a few years of use.

But I don't think anyone ever measured the compression on the K20A setup in B20B.. I suspect after the machining of the valve reliefs, prolly at 13s.

High compression + stock cams + high rpm = kaboom!

of course, the fact that the stock B20B rods aren't the strongest also contributes to the failures you might have heard.. the piston 'detaches' from the rods.

The cyclinder wall wear is going to be a bit higher too, but not so severe that you'll need serious work on them every two years.

 

[akuma]

shiro,
wats ur main objective w d B20 build in d 1st place?i tot most ppl who decided 2 buil a B20 is 2 overcome d low-end torque problem of B16s n B18s??now ur saying u might sacrifice low end torque so u cud get power in d upper power band?errr..doesn't dat actually defeats d purpose of a B20?unless ur main objective is a drag car lar...
cheers

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro,
wats ur main objective w d B20 build in d 1st place?i tot most ppl who decided 2 buil a B20 is 2 overcome d low-end torque problem of B16s n B18s??now ur saying u might sacrifice low end torque so u cud get power in d upper power band?errr..doesn't dat actually defeats d purpose of a B20?unless ur main objective is a drag car lar...
cheers

Yeah.. but the thing is, B20B has too much low end torque, and too little up top..

Sacrifice a little.. not too much lah.. :P

I think you yourself find it strange that B16 power very nice up top even though the low end sucks. Compare to other 1.6.. hairan hairan.. :P

If B20B had those kind of torque band, can see something like the K20R already.. :P

But K20R stroke only 86mm... so can rev higher without risk to the cyclinder liners.. B20B.. have to sacrifice that a bit lah..

 

[akuma]

shiro,
duno abt other but i actualy find my own B16A quite nice 2 drive,quite torquey actually..even below 3000rpm.....dun need alot of gear change ard town oso.....n yeah,agree w u...after 6000rpm...all HELL break loose lor!aahahha

 

[shiroitenshi]

shiro,
duno abt other but i actualy find my own B16A quite nice 2 drive,quite torquey actually..even below 3000rpm.....dun need alot of gear change ard town oso.....n yeah,agree w u...after 6000rpm...all HELL break loose lor!aahahha

Your car lightweight mah.. mine is past 1000kgs oh...

 

[hattech-v]

only driver need to be liten.... haha

 

[dcloo]

only driver need to be liten.... haha

just like suhaimi body shaped will be best

 

[hattech-v]

haha... i'm on diet la now...

 

[wil_alastor]

Sorry newbie here tumpang lalu..

Of course B16a/b can rev high with less vibration,friction,sidewall-load to the cylinders due to their rs ratio and less rod-angles(1.74:1 & 1.84:1) while b20B/Z and B18A/B (on their standard stroke) are only 1.54:1 and was built by the manufacturer without vtec. 1.75:1 is considered 'ideal' by some engine builders and some of them do believe if below 1.61:1 (with the exception of stock B18C & B18C-R with rs ratio of 1.58:1) , the use of good n strong conrods,bearings,headbolts are recommended.

I dont think u will 'miss' the excitement of b16a's high revving when u plonk in a B20/18's bottom end. Technically speaking, at 7krpm B16A's 81mm piston only travels 18m/sec while B20 with vtec head already reaches 20-22m/sec (depends on it's strokes,piston diameters,bottom end internal weights etc).

If you're afraid of vibrations during high rpm when using above 85mm maybe you can afford an Endyn rods to hold the cylinders if resleeving and blockguard isnt your option.

As for camshaft ,valvetrains,piston diameters,piston selections, static & dynamic compressions,wrist pin locations,a/f ratios tuning,ignitions,fuellings,ITB goes , many SIFUS here including you yourself had discussed earlier.

But if u're planning to only use the stock 137mm rods and headbolts and stock camshaft (?) maybe b20s sifus can help u to choose a relevant piston and their sizes and it's redline range for your wallet-safety purpose.The risk is always there, if Kaboom just build another...even F1 engine 'kong' sumtimes.

Pls correct me if im wrong..peace.

RALAT ITU NORMAL.











sacrifice oil consumption

 

[J101]

keep us update on this story akuma :)

latest update:i roughly know whr's d shop dat did all dis crazy stuffs 4 d kemaman fellas..n my informer did mention abt modding d wrist pins.....n v haf photography proof of how they mod d conrod 2 fit m CONFIRMED those r not Honda conrods..still trying 2 figure out frm wat car.....even a fren who owns a kedai potong dun haf d answer..
tunggu.......................