4g93T gsr engine rebuild, need advice

[thesyko]

Guys from reading this whole thread right up till now I gather that;

But before hand let me tell you that I'm running a 4G93T with TD04 that is modded with bigger FIN, 38mm wastegate, ECU that has rev-cut set to 10k rpm and no speed-cut.
My target that I would like to achieve is a modest 250whp.

1) Its safe for me to use standard GSR (4G93T) internals and boost till says not more than 1.4/1.5 bar (20.30/21.75 psi) with proper fueling and tuning. How reliable is the 4G93T internals?

2) Will E-manage be sufficient? Since this is a road use car so i guess it will be okay. Maybe it'll see 1 or 2 track days (if my wife permits la :p)

3) I currently have a 1.8mm metal gasket that is taken from my old 4G92 DOHC Turbo. Can I reuse it back here on the 4G93T? or is 1.8mm a little bit too much?

4) I'm planning to dump in a 269 degree camshaft. From my user standing that 268/269 is street-racing cams, am I rite? Or what do you guys recommend.

5) I'm planning to perform an engine balancing. My question is, what do I give the balancing shop? The block, crank, flywheel, clutch cover and clutch plate, conrods and pistons only rite? Or do I need to give them the new main bearings, piston rings and also conrod bearings?

6) For engine head port and polish, what do I need to give them? Engine head and new camshaft rite? Do I need to grind in new valves also and do I provide them the intake manifold so they can port and match in to the intake part of the engine head?

7) Last question, how much will the engine balancing and port & polish cost me? I want a good and reliable mechanic / shop to do it for me, any recommendations? Do I need to also lighten my crankshaft or lighten my flywheel?

Thanks for your answers in advance :)

 

[contreasjun27]

Guys from reading this whole thread right up till now I gather that;

But before hand let me tell you that I'm running a 4G93T with TD04 that is modded with bigger FIN, 38mm wastegate, ECU that has rev-cut set to 10k rpm and no speed-cut.
My target that I would like to achieve is a modest 250whp.

1) Its safe for me to use standard GSR (4G93T) internals and boost till says not more than 1.4/1.5 bar (20.30/21.75 psi) with proper fueling and tuning. How reliable is the 4G93T internals?

2) Will E-manage be sufficient? Since this is a road use car so i guess it will be okay. Maybe it'll see 1 or 2 track days (if my wife permits la :p)

3) I currently have a 1.8mm metal gasket that is taken from my old 4G92 DOHC Turbo. Can I reuse it back here on the 4G93T? or is 1.8mm a little bit too much?

4) I'm planning to dump in a 269 degree camshaft. From my user standing that 268/269 is street-racing cams, am I rite? Or what do you guys recommend.

5) I'm planning to perform an engine balancing. My question is, what do I give the balancing shop? The block, crank, flywheel, clutch cover and clutch plate, conrods and pistons only rite? Or do I need to give them the new main bearings, piston rings and also conrod bearings?

6) For engine head port and polish, what do I need to give them? Engine head and new camshaft rite? Do I need to grind in new valves also and do I provide them the intake manifold so they can port and match in to the intake part of the engine head?

7) Last question, how much will the engine balancing and port & polish cost me? I want a good and reliable mechanic / shop to do it for me, any recommendations? Do I need to also lighten my crankshaft or lighten my flywheel?

Thanks for your answers in advance :)

for me stock internal can go until 1 bar max only with proper fuelling...
if you want to go for 1.4/1.5 bar you definately need stronger conrods and forged piston to withstand it in order for your engine to run healthy.
Besides that 1.8mm metal gasket is too thick I think is it better for you to measure the accurate compression ratio before deciding on how think you should use on the metal gasket.

 

[speed2horizon]

Guys from reading this whole thread right up till now I gather that;

But before hand let me tell you that I'm running a 4G93T with TD04 that is modded with bigger FIN, 38mm wastegate, ECU that has rev-cut set to 10k rpm and no speed-cut.
My target that I would like to achieve is a modest 250whp.

Specify more on your TD04. Bigger fin means which fin..? What size..?

1) Its safe for me to use standard GSR (4G93T) internals and boost till says not more than 1.4/1.5 bar (20.30/21.75 psi) with proper fueling and tuning. How reliable is the 4G93T internals?

Answer is YES, if U mentioned proper fueling and tunning with proper data logging done during the tunning to avoid knocks. Reliability wise, not an issue to worry.

2) Will E-manage be sufficient? Since this is a road use car so i guess it will be okay. Maybe it'll see 1 or 2 track days (if my wife permits la :p)

E-manage blue is sufficient if u are not upgrading ur injector to 150% bigger than your stock 390cc. Track is also not a problem. But maybe an oil cooler is recommended.

But of course, standalones rulez for street and track... The ability to fully control your injector and your ignition unit and map according to ur engine customization... Bare in mind, there are limit of what u can do with your emanage...

3) I currently have a 1.8mm metal gasket that is taken from my old 4G92 DOHC Turbo. Can I reuse it back here on the 4G93T? or is 1.8mm a little bit too much?

YES. everything is the same. But it's not so adviceable to use a used gasket. 1.8mm, U'll be getting CR around 8.0:1. traffic jam land launching not so nice. But still acceptable due to the 1834cc capacity.

4) I'm planning to dump in a 269 degree camshaft. From my user standing that 268/269 is street-racing cams, am I rite? Or what do you guys recommend.

252/264/272/288 can all be used for street... It's Malaysia here. It all depended on how much one individual can take the bad iddle due to high duration cam.

Also note, E-manage blue does not have cam correction. So, prepare for bad iddling when u have too high duration cams.

269 is only 3 degree lower than the 272 which is recommended for track use. Well, I guess it's ok... Maybe ur idle sounds like "Mesin kuda"... hehee...

5) I'm planning to perform an engine balancing. My question is, what do I give the balancing shop? The block, crank, flywheel, clutch cover and clutch plate, conrods and pistons only rite? Or do I need to give them the new main bearings, piston rings and also conrod bearings?

Actually, overall dynamic balancing is only done on the moving part of the engine. And all the bearings and rings are already well balanced before they are on the market.

-Block(Option)
-Crank
-Flywheel
-Clutch + cover
-Conrod
-Piston
-Bearings(no)
-Rings(no)

6) For engine head port and polish, what do I need to give them? Engine head and new camshaft rite? Do I need to grind in new valves also and do I provide them the intake manifold so they can port and match in to the intake part of the engine head?

For port and polish, u don't need to give them the cams. If' u are going to dismental everything, just give the the engine cylinder head kosong.

Better to give them the manifold too.

Unless u are doing a valve job, like 3 angle/5 angle/oversizing... Else, keep the valve.

If u want to have a clean balance porting job, send it to the profesionals. Recommended shop are Matspeed or Nasty Port. They have the benchflow test machine.

7) Last question, how much will the engine balancing and port & polish cost me? I want a good and reliable mechanic / shop to do it for me, any recommendations? Do I need to also lighten my crankshaft or lighten my flywheel?

Engine balancing will cost u around RM500-RM800 without labour of dismentling ur engine. Port and polish will cost you RM500-RM1000. All depend on where u are sending your stuff to...

Recommendation:
Head port and polish as mentioned above.
Engine balancing, there's alot of engineering shop in Sunway and USJ that does a decent job.

Thanks for your answers in advance :)

You are welcome. But there's just a few more recommendation.

1) Since u are dismentling ur engine, skali change to racing bearings. U'll never regret.

2) For higher boost application, u can look for TOYOTA 4AGZE pistons. They are tougher than stock GSR pistons.

3) U mentioned about 10krpm. By the time U rev to 7500krpm, U'll be experiencing valve float and will see dynograph going down. Get urself a set of valve spring with higher spring rate.

for me stock internal can go until 1 bar max only with proper fuelling...
if you want to go for 1.4/1.5 bar you definately need stronger conrods and forged piston to withstand it in order for your engine to run healthy.
Besides that 1.8mm metal gasket is too thick I think is it better for you to measure the accurate compression ratio before deciding on how think you should use on the metal gasket.

Yakah..? My friend's old GTI boosting at 1.4 bar with stock internals and methanol, achieving 270WHP just before the valve float phenomena took place... EMS is Hlatech E6X of course.

My foreman boosted 1.6bar with RON97 fuel with emanage. But iddling out la... Damn 9 rich...

Another GSR achieving with stock internals boosting at 1.5-1.6bars running with methanol + microtech 280WHP...

With bad tunning, Forged pistons + H Beam conrods also can melt...

What do you think..?

Hardware or software..?

 

[veilsideboyz]

Walao...reply so much !!
Good answer !!
You all should spent Speedhorizon taiko for teh tarik + Buffet !!

 

[contreasjun27]

Yakah..? My friend's old GTI boosting at 1.4 bar with stock internals and methanol, achieving 270WHP just before the valve float phenomena took place... EMS is Hlatech E6X of course.

My foreman boosted 1.6bar with RON97 fuel with emanage. But iddling out la... Damn 9 rich...

Another GSR achieving with stock internals boosting at 1.5-1.6bars running with methanol + microtech 280WHP...

With bad tunning, Forged pistons + H Beam conrods also can melt...

What do you think..?

Hardware or software..?

sifu memang sifu already said so much...
hehe i guess is the software problem gua haha
btw all ur stock internals also got standalone thats why can make the tuning perfect mah...
if emanage can meh?

 

[goo_61t]

Yakah..? My friend's old GTI boosting at 1.4 bar with stock internals and methanol, achieving 270WHP just before the valve float phenomena took place... EMS is Hlatech E6X of course.

My foreman boosted 1.6bar with RON97 fuel with emanage. But iddling out la... Damn 9 rich...

Another GSR achieving with stock internals boosting at 1.5-1.6bars running with methanol + microtech 280WHP...

With bad tunning, Forged pistons + H Beam conrods also can melt...

What do you think..?

Hardware or software..?

We are talking bout pump fuel, ur fren running 1.5 - 1.6 bars on methanol..
compare the knock threshold between pump fuel and methanol.

no doubt we can run 1.6 bar on standard internals provided it's properly tuned and i doubt it can run with the stock ecu ignition mapping,the ignition mapping must be cut down a bit in few areas where the engine tend to knock.. with safc can;t do anything bout it..but can be touched up with e-manage, less ignition = less power u can achieve much more power with stronger internals

it's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine.

 

[contreasjun27]

We are talking bout pump fuel, ur fren running 1.5 - 1.6 bars on methanol..
compare the knock threshold between pump fuel and methanol.

no doubt we can run 1.6 bar on standard internals provided it's properly tuned and i doubt it can run with the stock ecu ignition mapping,the ignition mapping must be cut down a bit in few areas where the engine tend to knock.. with safc can;t do anything bout it..but can be touched up with e-manage, less ignition = less power u can achieve much more power with stronger internals

it's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine.

I love your your quote hehe " It's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine "

 

[jinkl]

I love your your quote hehe " It's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine "

very true
who said u cant run 3bar daily drive, can laaa
use compression 6:1 lol lariii lariiiii

 

[contreasjun27]

very true
who said u cant run 3bar daily drive, can laaa
use compression 6:1 lol lariii lariiiii

funny lah you Jinkl!!!

 

[goo_61t]

very true
who said u cant run 3bar daily drive, can laaa
use compression 6:1 lol lariii lariiiii

ahahaha..daymmnnnn...
6:1 compression huhu sudden recall my wiseco that i sold last time..so damn low the compression hakhakhak can make it as ash ray bai ahahahaha

 

[chrissyong]

very true
who said u cant run 3bar daily drive, can laaa
use compression 6:1 lol lariii lariiiii

turbo before spool up,engine lame like hell,or use compression ratio 9.1 with VP racing Q16 120octaine also not bad,but u must pay rm30 per liter for daily 3 bar~

 

[speed2horizon]

We are talking bout pump fuel, ur fren running 1.5 - 1.6 bars on methanol..
compare the knock threshold between pump fuel and methanol.

no doubt we can run 1.6 bar on standard internals provided it's properly tuned and i doubt it can run with the stock ecu ignition mapping,the ignition mapping must be cut down a bit in few areas where the engine tend to knock.. with safc can;t do anything bout it..but can be touched up with e-manage, less ignition = less power u can achieve much more power with stronger internals

it's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine.

That's why... U read the emanage on 1.6 bar.... proper ignition retard at full boost + sufficient fuel...
Of course stronger internals can go further...

As always, my quote is, not about how much boost ur engine can take. It's how much horsepower U want, then mod accordingly...

I love your your quote hehe " It's not boost that kill an engine, it's detonation that kill's engine "

I like that too.. BTW, jinkl is alwez funny... He's the sifu, not me.

 

[contreasjun27]

ahahaha..daymmnnnn...
6:1 compression huhu sudden recall my wiseco that i sold last time..so damn low the compression hakhakhak can make it as ash ray bai ahahahaha

LOL ash ray haha

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------

That's why... U read the emanage on 1.6 bar.... proper ignition retard at full boost + sufficient fuel...
Of course stronger internals can go further...

As always, my quote is, not about how much boost ur engine can take. It's how much horsepower U want, then mod accordingly...

I like that too.. BTW, jinkl is alwez funny... He's the sifu, not me.

both of you also my sifu hehe...
just that Jinkl ignore me more

 

[speed2horizon]

LOL ash ray haha

---------- Post added at 06:03 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:02 PM ----------



both of you also my sifu hehe...
just that Jinkl ignore me more

Jinkl can answer everything... He knows everything...
But 1 thing for sure he dunno...

Ask him about PS POWERSRPOT... He can't answer... Neither do I ..... Muahahhaha.... Jin, ada betul kah..?

 

[contreasjun27]

Jinkl can answer everything... He knows everything...
But 1 thing for sure he dunno...

Ask him about PS POWERSRPOT... He can't answer... Neither do I ..... Muahahhaha.... Jin, ada betul kah..?

LOL pretty much I think only that fella in speed syndicate can only answer that..
they are too secretive hehe

 

[speed2horizon]

LOL pretty much I think only that fella in speed syndicate can only answer that..
they are too secretive hehe

Whatever... lolx....

 

[lozo]

amel666, hows the outcome of the rebuild? all good ?

 

[thesyko]

Specify more on your TD04. Bigger fin means which fin..? What size..?

The front fin is bigger. Size is the same as S14 turbine fin.


252/264/272/288 can all be used for street... It's Malaysia here. It all depended on how much one individual can take the bad iddle due to high duration cam.

Also note, E-manage blue does not have cam correction. So, prepare for bad iddling when u have too high duration cams.

269 is only 3 degree lower than the 272 which is recommended for track use. Well, I guess it's ok... Maybe ur idle sounds like "Mesin kuda"... hehee...

Then is 272 degree cam okay for daily use, i mean going thru the jam and all. How's the idling and all?

Actually, overall dynamic balancing is only done on the moving part of the engine. And all the bearings and rings are already well balanced before they are on the market.

-Block(Option)
-Crank
-Flywheel
-Clutch + cover
-Conrod
-Piston
-Bearings(no)
-Rings(no)

For engine balancing is it recommended for me to lighten the flywheel a little bit and also shave / lighten the crankshaft a little bit?

For port and polish, u don't need to give them the cams. If' u are going to dismental everything, just give the the engine cylinder head kosong.

Better to give them the manifold too.

Unless u are doing a valve job, like 3 angle/5 angle/oversizing... Else, keep the valve.

I'm planning to do a valve job, whats the difference between a 3 angle and 5 angle valve job?[ I think the 4G93T cannot oversize the valve's?/COLOR]

If u want to have a clean balance porting job, send it to the profesionals. Recommended shop are Matspeed or Nasty Port. They have the benchflow test machine.

Where's Nasty Port located at? So what are the price range for porting at Matspeed or Nasty Port?


You are welcome. But there's just a few more recommendation.

1) Since u are dismentling ur engine, skali change to racing bearings. U'll never regret.

I'm using ACL full race bearings (Conrod and Main bearing)

2) For higher boost application, u can look for TOYOTA 4AGZE pistons. They are tougher than stock GSR pistons.

Then is the GSR conrods that reliable for me to use the supercharger pistons with? If the pistons are strong but conrod's are weak, for wat?

3) U mentioned about 10krpm. By the time U rev to 7500krpm, U'll be experiencing valve float and will see dynograph going down. Get urself a set of valve spring with higher spring rate.

But matspeed / nasty port will know what kind of springs to use rite?

 

[speed2horizon]

Specify more on your TD04. Bigger fin means which fin..? What size..?

The front fin is bigger. Size is the same as S14 turbine fin.

ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.

252/264/272/288 can all be used for street... It's Malaysia here. It all depended on how much one individual can take the bad iddle due to high duration cam.

Also note, E-manage blue does not have cam correction. So, prepare for bad iddling when u have too high duration cams.

269 is only 3 degree lower than the 272 which is recommended for track use. Well, I guess it's ok... Maybe ur idle sounds like "Mesin kuda"... hehee...

Then is 272 degree cam okay for daily use, i mean going thru the jam and all. How's the idling and all?

If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.

Actually, overall dynamic balancing is only done on the moving part of the engine. And all the bearings and rings are already well balanced before they are on the market.

-Block(Option)
-Crank
-Flywheel
-Clutch + cover
-Conrod
-Piston
-Bearings(no)
-Rings(no)

For engine balancing is it recommended for me to lighten the flywheel a little bit and also shave / lighten the crankshaft a little bit?

All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.

For port and polish, u don't need to give them the cams. If' u are going to dismental everything, just give the the engine cylinder head kosong.

Better to give them the manifold too.

Unless u are doing a valve job, like 3 angle/5 angle/oversizing... Else, keep the valve.

I'm planning to do a valve job, whats the difference between a 3 angle and 5 angle valve job?[ I think the 4G93T cannot oversize the valve's?/COLOR]

The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve

Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine

If u want to have a clean balance porting job, send it to the profesionals. Recommended shop are Matspeed or Nasty Port. They have the benchflow test machine.

Where's Nasty Port located at? So what are the price range for porting at Matspeed or Nasty Port?

For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products

You are welcome. But there's just a few more recommendation.

1) Since u are dismentling ur engine, skali change to racing bearings. U'll never regret.

I'm using ACL full race bearings (Conrod and Main bearing)

Nice

2) For higher boost application, u can look for TOYOTA 4AGZE pistons. They are tougher than stock GSR pistons.

Then is the GSR conrods that reliable for me to use the supercharger pistons with? If the pistons are strong but conrod's are weak, for wat?

The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...

3) U mentioned about 10krpm. By the time U rev to 7500krpm, U'll be experiencing valve float and will see dynograph going down. Get urself a set of valve spring with higher spring rate.

But matspeed / nasty port will know what kind of springs to use rite?

There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.

 

[thesyko]

ok, so it's 60mm compressor fin. But if there's nothin done to the turbine fine, u'll expect the turbine housing tho chock after 6000rpm and cause overheating turbing housing and manifold. Then over pressure.

Hmmmm..... then what else can be done to the turbine? I think i have spoken my goal of 250whp and superb reliability and a engine that is fun, reliable and quick. Its my daily ride so I gotta carefully choose my mods.


If u can take it, then it's ok. But I wouldn't. High fuel consumption. And higher degree cams even pushes the turbine more. U'll expect the turbine to chock even earlier.

So I bet that the standard cams are the best bet, huh?

All depends on which power range u are looking for...

But GSR is quite good at low end torque due to it's undersquare configuration. Too light crank n flywheel is not fun on the top end.

So lightening the crank and flywheel a little bit is ok I guess. Just a little bit, but how much is a little bit, any ideas?

The best I've heard we could do is 3 angle Wanna know more about valve job, read the following link

Valve Grinding, Valve Job, Multi Angle Valve

Valve Angles - Tech Article - Chevy High Performance Magazine




For nasty port flow and matspeed details; click the following link, get their information and call them.

Nasty Portflow

F3-MatSpeed: MatSpeed Products


The pistons are the first contact to the combustion on the short block. But of course, u can opt for dtronger rods that is compatible. CA18 conrod from Nissan or China aftermaret Conrod like Duratech...


But from my research the CA18 conrods are shorter by about a few mm. So wont that cause the CR (compression ratio) to be lower due to high of the piston to be lower? Then it's the same as using a super thick gasket. Am i rite?

CA18DET = 83.6mm stroke
4G93 = 89.0mm stroke



There are not much aftermarket performance valve spring on te market for 4G9X... JUN/TOMEI/Kelford/RPW. It's not a performance engine for ur information.

So my best bet is just replacing all the valve's with brand new OEM units and then only performing a 3 angle valve job and new OEM valve springs just for reliability sake, am i rite?