My 2L B-Series N/A Project

[avantasia]

haiyaaa....wats the price?

 

[crower75]

It's ok liao....Mr. T will not go through the whole B18C-R crank and rod setup...for now...

 

[chris2000]

Its also from someone in this forum. Maybe wait for him to see and chip in. Or will inform when he did not pick it up. :)

 

[crower75]

Chris,

Got another Q&A for you:-

Q :
(a) will a B16B extractor fit and/or
(b) sufficient to be used in a 2 liter setup like Mr. T's ?

Thanks

 

[chris2000]

Chris,

Got another Q&A for you:-

Q :
(a) will a B16B extractor fit and/or
(b) sufficient to be used in a 2 liter setup like Mr. T's ?

Thanks

Wah... More question for me.. Hope my answers are correct.

(A) B16B extractor will fit any pr3 heads that is B16A, B16B and B18C-R.
(B) They were made and design for stock B16B. If Mugen, Toda, J's Racing can come out with an aftermarket extractor to fit on stock B16B and still gain power... I think the B16B extractor will choke the B20B engine and not release full potential of your B20 engine as it is going to flow alot more air than the puny 1.6L.

Even on my build, i worry the DC Sport 4-1 extractor will not be good enough also. When it does not flow enough, the peak power will be lowered to a lower rev.

 

[crower75]

I see.....

thanks Chris.....(more headache for me).......

 

[chris2000]

you can always use it 1st, then when the money comes in, only upgrade and do a new tune. hehe. :0

 

[crower75]

that would be the most logical avenue for the time being.....*sigh*

 

[LoRiTaNaH]

MR T = Mr "Rear Taruk"

 

[crower75]

uuwwaaaaaa u guys pickin' on me....

have sympathy maaaaaaaaaa heheheh......

 

[avantasia]

MR T = Mr "Rear Taruk"

ermm i like this!!!!! miaa haa haaaa

 

[kuNyit]

I just wondering to whom aaaa this tittle belong to???
hua hua hua!!

 

[hattech-v]

why? u want it? haha

 

[chris2000]

A little update and changes on my built.

Now considering selling my 85mm CP pistons 11.5:1 comp and going for something higher comp to make more torque with higher duration cams. Anyone interested in my CP pistons? hehe..


The Blox intake for GSR head was sold to a customer last week who need them badly. So it ended up me looking for a B16A head yesterday to use with either ITR intake or SKunk2 intake.

Thanks to dc_vtec who had a spare head to sell to me at good price for my built. :_:

Attached pictures are nothing spectacular. They are just pictures of the used B16A PR3-1 head of an EG I got from DC_vtec last night. They are currently totally stock and will be going to my mech for porting this week.

Enjoy the pictures of the std head if you haven't seen one before yet.

 

[shiroitenshi]

A little update and changes on my built.

Now considering selling my 85mm CP pistons 11.5:1 comp and going for something higher comp to make more torque with higher duration cams. Anyone interested in my CP pistons? hehe..


The Blox intake for GSR head was sold to a customer last week who need them badly. So it ended up me looking for a B16A head yesterday to use with either ITR intake or SKunk2 intake.

Thanks to dc_vtec who had a spare head to sell to me at good price for my built. :_:

Attached pictures are nothing spectacular. They are just pictures of the used B16A PR3-1 head of an EG I got from DC_vtec last night. They are currently totally stock and will be going to my mech for porting this week.

Enjoy the pictures of the std head if you haven't seen one before yet.

Haha.. underwhelming.. looks like a good candidate for a makeover..
Let's see what kind of valve job you're opting for.. Recessed valves seems like a good idea for valve piston clearance, but how about the rocker arms? Hope to see how yours is done.

Oh.. I totally forgot.. I'll pm you after this.

 

[chris2000]

Haha.. underwhelming.. looks like a good candidate for a makeover..
Let's see what kind of valve job you're opting for.. Recessed valves seems like a good idea for valve piston clearance, but how about the rocker arms? Hope to see how yours is done.

Oh.. I totally forgot.. I'll pm you after this.

From what i know from my mech, they didn't do any valve job on my head even the current ones running in my B18C that made 200whp.

He did one custom valve job on a previous setup but it did not make power pass 8000rpm. Think he over done it.

But i know he is doing more work on valve job on another head that is going on an EK for testing this week, so we will see how it work that car 1st. hehe...

No valve job but yet it flows really well. Strange but this what i'm told..

But then again, I told you before these mechs all tend to keep some secret to themselves and not so keen to reveal too much as they worry other mech will learn too much. Sometimes when i find something new or interesting facts, i'll go over to tell him and he will just give that look and say "ya, i know. we have doing that even on your engine". I was like "how come you never tell" and he will say i never ask. hai ya.. these people...

But this built i will try to snap some photos after its been mildly hand ported.

 

[shiroitenshi]

He did one custom valve job on a previous setup but it did not make power pass 8000rpm. Think he over done it.

But i know he is doing more work on valve job on another head that is going on an EK for testing this week, so we will see how it work that car 1st. hehe...

No valve job but yet it flows really well. Strange but this what i'm told..

Actually that's one of the manufacturing quirks of casting.. some come out very nice.. some come out with flashes and needs to be cleaned up. I think even the size of the ports are varied a little from one to another, and I think that's why some cars make really good power when stock, and some not so.

Actually I think the stock heads flow pretty well, so usually just cleaning them a bit would be good enough... Observing the port and polish work of another head from Japan last year (or was it mid 2005?).. it looks pretty much close to stock, except for some parts, esp. the bowl area where the valve guide juts out, and the turn that leads to the valves... damn.. it made me want to DIY mine.. haha.. The porting was meant for a 2.0, so I guess 2.0 NA don't need huge ports like what americans do.. but well.. americans like to turbo their cars, so that's one possible reason why.

In my thinking, big ports only make power for high revving big CC engines that get's choked on high rpm air flow.. small CC cars, the engine waste too much power trying to pump the air in... (well in theorylah.. mine)

Low end always suffers though when using big ports.... I think you can see it from vids of how some all motors launch off from the starting line.

 

[shiroitenshi]

Hahaha.. true.. usually they're quite hesitant to share, unless you already know some parts of it. I suspects that your mech knows more than he let's on.. :P

I think he probably don't use the same terms we use for describing compression ratio and other stuff... but I doubt that he don't know about them.

But by logging results, I think discoveries can be made with less trial and error.

 

[chris2000]

Hahaha.. true.. usually they're quite hesitant to share, unless you already know some parts of it. I suspects that your mech knows more than he let's on.. :P

I think he probably don't use the same terms we use for describing compression ratio and other stuff... but I doubt that he don't know about them.

But by logging results, I think discoveries can be made with less trial and error.

Thats why they had spend a lot time and money over the years in R&D or trial and error, so alot mech become abit less willing to reveal till you know about it then they will talk about it. They do have alot of results but all stored in their Pentium powered brain only. hehe..

 

[shiroitenshi]

Thats why they had spend a lot time and money over the years in R&D or trial and error, so alot mech become abit less willing to reveal till you know about it then they will talk about it. They do have alot of results but all stored in their Pentium powered brain only. hehe..

Hahaha.. yeah.. but the thing with human brains is that they run on organic fluids... so things tend to flow away after time.. hahaa..

That's why I log every single thing.. and I calculate stuff over and over... even though I really hated maths when I was young.. hahaha..

Now I've discovered lots of stuff, and as I discover more, I find out there's more to learn.. which is why I'm an engine tech enthusiast, rather than simply a car modding enthusiast. In fact, compression can be checked with the only the variables needed.. the combustion chamber volume, h/gasket thickness, and piston dome volume... the rest.. pretty much a constant. In fact, the JDM parts like Toda pistons actually give you the info on paper for you to calculate the compression.. which is really really impressive.. I guess even Japanese don't trial and error their R&D... :P

So far, most of the stuff I made checks out.. if I can get more data, perhaps can even discover how the rod stroke ratio, compression (dynamic one, based on opening and closing of the cams) and what ignition timing generates power at that certain RPM. Can even extrapolate to find out exactly what kind of ignition timing would work. Perhaps the fuel will make it slightly variable.. but it will make building engines and tuning less of a guesswork and trial and error.

 

[chris2000]

Its been a while since my last update in April.. :retarded:

Been very busy to even work on my current build. Some more changes along the month.. Pistons will be changed to Wiseco high compression ones that will hopefully allow me to use one of the Pro series cams from Skunk2. But the Skunk2 Pro Series cams had been out of stock in USa for a while and we are still waiting for the orders to arrive in Malaysia.

My mech wants to assemble the engine, allow it to run in and do a base map with Toda Cams first then later next month went everything is ready will strip the head to inspect the block and swap in the built head.

Basically, everything on the bottom end is ready to assemble but head not ready. Talked to him just now, and he will figure out a mild head with Toda C for me to get the engine fired up for run in. I know this sound crazy but will let the old man do as he say. :_:

Just some pictures of the NEW piston that i'm gonna use.

Will update more when i visit my mech.

 

[shiroitenshi]

It's one thing to see the wiseco high comp pistons on a B16a block. The small bore doesn't offer a lot swept volume to bump up compression to ridiculous levels.

It's quite another to see the same wiseco high comps with an 85mm bore with the same high comp dome.

This is going to be crazy high compression combo.. possibly pushing 13+, I think.. kind of depends on the combustion chamber volume your mech is going to go for.

I think he's going to look at how the pistons tolerate detonation when he strips the thing after the run in.. with high comp, the engine will knock.. just how severe is the question.

 

[chris2000]

On catalogue it calls for about 13.2-13.5:1 compression with 89mm crank and b20b block with b16a 42.7cc camber.

Since this build is using 87.2mm crank it will drop by about 0.2-0.3. Then combustion chamber is cut open for 85mm, so again will drop a few point but by how much really no idea yet as you know they don't cc the chamber.

My anticipation, when the build is complete, it should be about 13:1 compression. Too high for road use. And have to use high duration + lift + overlap to reduce the dynamic compression to make full use of the high static compression. Was told to reduce overall ignition timing to be safe. So 1st tune will run low ignition and see how much power is made with the toda c cams.

 

[shiroitenshi]

On catalogue it calls for about 13.2-13.5:1 compression with 89mm crank and b20b block with b16a 42.7cc camber.

Since this build is using 87.2mm crank it will drop by about 0.2-0.3. Then combustion chamber is cut open for 85mm, so again will drop a few point but by how much really no idea yet as you know they don't cc the chamber.

My anticipation, when the build is complete, it should be about 13:1 compression. Too high for road use. And have to use high duration + lift + overlap to reduce the dynamic compression to make full use of the high static compression. Was told to reduce overall ignition timing to be safe. So 1st tune will run low ignition and see how much power is made with the toda c cams.

Ah.. but don't forget.. lots of retard = high EGTs.. and the manifold 'is connected' to the head... possible heat transfer there. a heated up head will have hotspots, usually near the exhaust valve area I think, prime candidate for detonation/pre-ignition. I wonder how you will get around this.

Well.. see how your's will be done... and what cams you'd need. Too bad they don't cc the chambers.. having a record might actually help in deciding cam choices.

 

[chris2000]

Just came back from my mech place.

Too bad when i arrive the engine is assemble and they were torqueing the head already. Couldn't get any pictures of the piston installed on the block.

Managed to take some pictures of the head i loan. Those head it is using now is not mine, and it my mechs partners. It has new ITR valves on them, toda valve springs and crower retainers. I know this head made 230whp on another engine. Wonder how much it will make on this setup..... :mouth_closed: