My 2L B-Series N/A Project

[chris2000]

Chris since you have more experience on using different cams ,,,could you inform me which one has the highest peak RPM power,,,other than jun 4 ? For machine that has cut off 11,000rpm.

You probably have more experience than me in using high high lift cams. :confused_smile: I personally only have used GSR, ITR, CTR, Jun 2, Jun 3, Toda C, Buddy Club Spec 3+ and Omni 1. These are all relatively mild compared to the Jun4 u using.

I only can share what i have personally SEEN only but i never try before.

A B20B using Buddy club Spec 5, power peak only about 9200rpm. If a B16A i believe the peak power can be as high as 10,000rpm! And this B20B guy swapped his jun4 out for BC Spec5 even though power peak lower rev because the BClub5 made more power all over the curve except peak.

A B16A with Jun3 peak at 9200+. Same engine with TODAC peak about 8600rpm but made more useable power than Jun3 till about 8000+rpm.

A B16A using Toda Killer (don't know which spec cause there is 3 duration to use), he said his power band is about 6500rpm to 10000rpm. No dyno proof as they don't want to show us so i can't comment if it is true. hehe...

A B16A using NZ race cams again claim to peak at 10,000rpm but again not sharing any dyno sheet or sharing anymore info with me.

Many USA engine build i see B20's using Skunk2 Pro 2+ making power into the 9000rpm! Skunk2 claims that their Pro Series 3 can make power to about 9800rpm. These are currently one the more popular race cams in USA now.

I believe in making broader power band with more useable power throughout the rev rather than just Peak numbers at peak revs cause the wear and tear at those 10k rpm are just ridiculous. Unless you tell me you just use for Drag race only and are prepared to rebuilt after a year SIC drag battle then different story la. :regular_smile:

So, V8_nutter what cams you using in what block and the power you making?? Share la.. hehe..

 

[chris2000]

Met Chong yesterday afternoon.. the usual place.. :P
Me? Doing the usual thing.. disturbing people at h/cut shops.. :P
Just arrived back at 3 am just now.

11,000rpm.. woah.. must need some serious duration numbers I think.. I wonder if V8nutter will share what duration he's using once he gets it ironed out.. my guess.. 280-290 degrees thereabouts.. random wild guess.. :P

Chris.. who's going to doing the tuning on your ITB setup if you do use one, hypothetically speaking? Just curious, since there is a (sergent/sergeant/sturgeon? Damn the japanese and weird names) ITB lying around somewhere here, although at the current moment, no car, engine not done yet = not so soon.. :P

You met chong? Hai ya, should have call me yum cha ma since you are down. But i was very busy yesterday too..

I actually got no ITB or any experience in tuning ITB and also not in plan of this 2L build. After this build is done and tune and running ok, you wanna lend me the ITB just for trying to tune and see how more or less power we make using these?? hehe... :regular_smile:

 

[shiroitenshi]

You met chong? Hai ya, should have call me yum cha ma since you are down. But i was very busy yesterday too..

I actually got no ITB or any experience in tuning ITB and also not in plan of this 2L build. After this build is done and tune and running ok, you wanna lend me the ITB just for trying to tune and see how more or less power we make using these?? hehe... :regular_smile:

Actually I was about to leave when chong arrived, so didn't really hang around for long.

I'll ask and see.. it's hardly a complete set, since it's still missing a vacuum log, and perhaps maybe some other bits, unknown as yet to me. I think apart from the vaccuum log, it's pretty much complete, but cannot say 100% sure.

 

[V8_nutter]

You probably have more experience than me in using high high lift cams. :confused_smile: I personally only have used GSR, ITR, CTR, Jun 2, Jun 3, Toda C, Buddy Club Spec 3+ and Omni 1. These are all relatively mild compared to the Jun4 u using.

I only can share what i have personally SEEN only but i never try before.

A B20B using Buddy club Spec 5, power peak only about 9200rpm. If a B16A i believe the peak power can be as high as 10,000rpm! And this B20B guy swapped his jun4 out for BC Spec5 even though power peak lower rev because the BClub5 made more power all over the curve except peak.

A B16A with Jun3 peak at 9200+. Same engine with TODAC peak about 8600rpm but made more useable power than Jun3 till about 8000+rpm.

A B16A using Toda Killer (don't know which spec cause there is 3 duration to use), he said his power band is about 6500rpm to 10000rpm. No dyno proof as they don't want to show us so i can't comment if it is true. hehe...

A B16A using NZ race cams again claim to peak at 10,000rpm but again not sharing any dyno sheet or sharing anymore info with me.

Many USA engine build i see B20's using Skunk2 Pro 2+ making power into the 9000rpm! Skunk2 claims that their Pro Series 3 can make power to about 9800rpm. These are currently one the more popular race cams in USA now.

I believe in making broader power band with more useable power throughout the rev rather than just Peak numbers at peak revs cause the wear and tear at those 10k rpm are just ridiculous. Unless you tell me you just use for Drag race only and are prepared to rebuilt after a year SIC drag battle then different story la. :regular_smile:

So, V8_nutter what cams you using in what block and the power you making?? Share la.. hehe..

Chris since you asking block and power,,it will be sleeve 86 with new crank & conrod on b20 block. Targeted power is from approx 7000rpm to 10,000 +, providing the berings ok. For crank and conrod i wouldnt worry much cause the stress is not too high, rod ratio is ok.

 

[V8_nutter]

You met chong? Hai ya, should have call me yum cha ma since you are down. But i was very busy yesterday too..

I actually got no ITB or any experience in tuning ITB and also not in plan of this 2L build. After this build is done and tune and running ok, you wanna lend me the ITB just for trying to tune and see how more or less power we make using these?? hehe... :regular_smile:

Chris the power of ITB is not solely on bhp,,,there are 2 main hidden power on it. 1st is on the throttle response,,,intake plenum will not revs out as quickly as ITB especially in the first 3 gears. 2nd itb can be tuned for powerband and gears, based on my experience we can make it to get either midrange or topend based on length & size.

 

[V8_nutter]

Met Chong yesterday afternoon.. the usual place.. :P
Me? Doing the usual thing.. disturbing people at h/cut shops.. :P
Just arrived back at 3 am just now.

11,000rpm.. woah.. must need some serious duration numbers I think.. I wonder if V8nutter will share what duration he's using once he gets it ironed out.. my guess.. 280-290 degrees thereabouts.. random wild guess.. :P

Chris.. who's going to doing the tuning on your ITB setup if you do use one, hypothetically speaking? Just curious, since there is a (sergent/sergeant/sturgeon? Damn the japanese and weird names) ITB lying around somewhere here, although at the current moment, no car, engine not done yet = not so soon.. :P

Duration is ok,,im not worry about that. What i worry is can the gearbox shift at that RPM

 

[chris2000]

Chris since you asking block and power,,it will be sleeve 86 with new crank & conrod on b20 block. Targeted power is from approx 7000rpm to 10,000 +, providing the berings ok. For crank and conrod i wouldnt worry much cause the stress is not too high, rod ratio is ok.

Do i see some 92mm crank and long rod?? hehe.. What 86mm piston are u using? DC5 or aftermarket forged?

Chris the power of ITB is not solely on bhp,,,there are 2 main hidden power on it. 1st is on the throttle response,,,intake plenum will not revs out as quickly as ITB especially in the first 3 gears. 2nd itb can be tuned for powerband and gears, based on my experience we can make it to get either midrange or topend based on length & size.

Thanks for sharing. I never experience ITB before. J101 just drop by my office and share with me just now that its throttle respond that is amazing on his setup.

Duration is ok,,im not worry about that. What i worry is can the gearbox shift at that RPM

Those revs are really hard on the scynro and gears! What box and gears you running? Scynro or dog?

 

[V8_nutter]

Do i see some 92mm crank and long rod?? hehe.. What 86mm piston are u using? DC5 or aftermarket forged?



Thanks for sharing. I never experience ITB before. J101 just drop by my office and share with me just now that its throttle respond that is amazing on his setup.



Those revs are really hard on the scynro and gears! What box and gears you running? Scynro or dog?

Still synchro,,but i heard locally can fabricate dog match with synchro,,,hmm have to meet up the "person" then. j101 throttle is quick ?? then he must be lying when he said that his response is "ok" only:shades_smile:

 

[udengfahlawi]

Still synchro,,but i heard locally can fabricate dog match with synchro,,,hmm have to meet up the "person" then. j101 throttle is quick ?? then he must be lying when he said that his response is "ok" only:shades_smile:

J101 even said his car is stock ler....who can believe that?....:_:

 

[J101]

ha ha ha focus on the topic guys :p

 

[HanafyEG]

ahahha...ahaks

 

[chris2000]

ha ha ha focus on the topic guys :p

His car is fairly stock now cause he took out the ITB already. hehe...

 

[avantasia]

J101's car must be fast!!!!

 

[shiroitenshi]

Fast is a relative term.. power to weight plays a major part there. :P

Chris, how about one of these days we meet up, then you can ask the owner himself if you can borrow the ITB.. he's a bit hesitant because you're a stranger.. :P

 

[avantasia]

dunno wat car he's using now??

 

[shiroitenshi]

Still synchro,,but i heard locally can fabricate dog match with synchro,,,hmm have to meet up the "person" then. j101 throttle is quick ?? then he must be lying when he said that his response is "ok" only:shades_smile:

Why would you still need a synchro? I thought that with dogboxes, you can simply force a shift, although at the expense of wear? and having straight cut gears that a dogbox, would offer better lastability compared to the normal ones, which was designed with noise considerations?

 

[chris2000]

update 5/3/07

And update for the guys following this thread.

I ordered for a forged I-Beam rods to be custom Teflon coated but was instead sent a set of Forged H-Beam Teflon quoted. Bloody americans didn't even tell that the I-Beam no stock for few months. I-Beams were lighter but H-Beams can withstand more abuse.

Anyway, if you guys wonder why i coated them, it's cause proven in USA that the coating repels oil giving less oil windage power loss.

Wanted to coat my crank but work out the cost to be too expensive to send to USA and back to Malaysia.

This forged H-Beam custom coated has ARP 2000 rod bolts installed and they are slightly thicker than Eagle rods so they will take more abuse and stronger than Eagle.

See the below pictures:-

 

[shiroitenshi]

And update for the guys following this thread.

I ordered for a forged I-Beam rods to be custom Teflon coated but was instead sent a set of Forged H-Beam Teflon quoted. Bloody americans didn't even tell that the I-Beam no stock for few months. I-Beams were lighter but H-Beams can withstand more abuse.

Anyway, if you guys wonder why i coated them, it's cause proven in USA that the coating repels oil giving less oil windage power loss.

Wanted to coat my crank but work out the cost to be too expensive to send to USA and back to Malaysia.

This forged H-Beam custom coated has ARP 2000 rod bolts installed and they are slightly thicker than Eagle rods so they will take more abuse and stronger than Eagle.

See the below pictures:-

So what make are they? And how roughly would it cost for the avg. Malaysian? Super expensive or...????

As for the H-beam and I-beam designs, lighter vs. stronger eh? That's something new.. I always though they were a gimmicky design feature, with either providing better performance than the other.

 

[chris2000]

They are custom made for USA. Without coatings they are priced very competitive to Eagles but with coatings they will cost about RM600 to RM800 more. I suspect they come from similar factory as eagle or eagle competitor.

But these are design to be beefier than eagles.

H-Beams are cheaper to make and design due to the processing difference of the two. Generally H-Beams are stronger to withstand more power hence normally used in turbo engines.

I-Beam/A-Beams are harder to make and processing them are more expensive, but they remove more weight or shift the reciprocating weight hence are generally lighter. A popular design among NA/All motor applications. But normally can take less abuse but for NA application is more than enough.

 

[shiroitenshi]

They are custom made for USA. Without coatings they are priced very competitive to Eagles but with coatings they will cost about RM600 to RM800 more. I suspect they come from similar factory as eagle or eagle competitor.

But these are design to be beefier than eagles.

So they aren't absurdly expensive then... hmmm... :evilgrin:

But isn't beefier = heavier? and more vibrations during high rpm?