Water Injection & Water-Methanol Injection

[mengz]

Hi All,

In conjunction with the current rising price of petrol in our beloved Malaysia. IMHO, water injection or water-meth injection is an alternative solution for us to continue enjoying every horsepower of our car despite the rising cost of RON97 by allowing us to use RON95 instead. if you're looking at a kit which cost say RM2,500 you shall see ROI in a year if you pump 4 times of RON97 a month. i pump around 6 times a month so my ROI will be in 8 months. and this is at the current ron95 vs ron97 price. if the price gap widens, then ROI will be sooner.

although fairly new in Malaysia, this technology has exist since World War times all the way to F1 until it got banned. In other parts of the world it is quite matured and the injection kits are getting more and more advance.

hope to get some good discussion on it here and those interested we can share more information. below are some good links to read up on if you're interested. anyone with more information and experience, please feel free to share.

Cheers!

waterinjection.info - Powered by vBulletin
Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling - NASIOC

 

[Veloc]

Actually, I think water-methanol injection is not very good. My previous job, I sold chemicals. And methanol and ethanol are not cheap. Around RM 39 per litre for a standard grade. Not to mention that methanol is hazardous to humans. What is the ratio or water-methanol mixture? How much water-methanol is used for a full tank of petrol? Actually I wanted to find out long ago. Can just water be used instead of water-methanol mixture? I've read is somewhere. Hope anyone who got experience can share.

 

[jinkl]

Actually, I think water-methanol injection is not very good. My previous job, I sold chemicals. And methanol and ethanol are not cheap. Around RM 39 per litre for a standard grade. Not to mention that methanol is hazardous to humans. What is the ratio or water-methanol mixture? How much water-methanol is used for a full tank of petrol? Actually I wanted to find out long ago. Can just water be used instead of water-methanol mixture? I've read is somewhere. Hope anyone who got experience can share.

wow, ur methanol is tooo expensive, hehehe more expensive than VP Rcing M5 grade methanol
for water injection, pure methanol is not needed, M98 diluted with 50% water should be good enuff.
Methanol is hazardous to humans, so is petrol.

Study shows, 50% mixture works best for power and cooling. There is no ratio to a full tank petrol , high HP cars will require bigger injector nozzle , smaller will of cos require smaller, with products like snow , aem , aquamist n etc , more boost can control the pump to flow more air/meth , some even offer RPM tunes.

Its not easy to say , this engine, this setup will work, its all bout test , r&d
If someone builds a setup in one go , he is indeed a genius, a man of science :P

 

[khoyos]

yup agree with jinkl. typically, price for methanol is around rm4-5 per liter and i'm using works pre-mixed "boost juice" which retails for around rm40++ per 5 liter. it is not to be used in the fuel tank. it is to be stored in a separate container and sprayed by an additional nozzle to the intake pipe right before throttle body.

i'm using AEM water.methanol kit which has a 1 gallon tank. i filled up that tank with works boost juice last october and until today, it is still 3/4 full (after 4 dyno tuning sessions, countless highway & hillroad runs, including a saturday night fever session which ended prematurely due to some other issues). my purpose of using this is strictly for boost cooling, not to supplement ron95 petrol as it is my weekend car n i use ron97 all the time for this car. spray activated @0.9bar above hehe...

 

[Veloc]

Whoa you guys get methanol so cheap???!?
The ones my ex company sell is not pure grade la... Pure grade a lot higher... Its just a common grade. I am considering hydrogen fuel enrichment. The thing that electyrolyse water and separate hydrogen from oxygen then injects into the engine. That fuel saving thing. I heard it cools the engine and increase octane rating as well.

 

[khoyos]

no special smuggled lubang here bro... its available at most shops in sunway... for race-grade, automotive-use methanol then u better go to millennium motorsport la

 

[D7zul]

I'm not trying to promote anything.. but..

I use a device that called 'E-GAS HYDROGEN FUEL SAVER'..

So far, so good..

What it does is separate Hydrogen & Oxygen from H2O (water)

see image below.. we learn this in form 3 or so..

before i buy this product.. i borrow a 'gas detector' from my company..

to my amazement, the gas produce by this product are : oxygen, hydrogen sulfide, carbon monoxide & methane (that's all that the gas detector detects)..

i can feel my engine runs better.. & the fuel consumption gets better.. a lil bit.. not a lot but ok la..

peace.. out

 

[jinkl]

Whoa you guys get methanol so cheap???!?
The ones my ex company sell is not pure grade la... Pure grade a lot higher... Its just a common grade. I am considering hydrogen fuel enrichment. The thing that electyrolyse water and separate hydrogen from oxygen then injects into the engine. That fuel saving thing. I heard it cools the engine and increase octane rating as well.

its already proven nt to be practical , cos an engine sucks alot more air than the electrolyse water can ever give, the hybrogen is toooo tooooo little that it doesnt makes any diffrence, only cost more to install them

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

remember u flow aprox 10lb/min-15lb/min of air to generate 100-150hp for an engine
hw much can the electrolyse give hehehehe

the anwser is VNT/VGT turbo for better consumption n efficiency lolx

 

[mengz]

keep it coming guys!!

Veloc, I'm currently using industrial grade 99.8% purity Methanol for RM5 per liter but must buy 25 liters. mix it at 50/50 with distilled water from Giant for 1 gallon tank. bought this from chemical supplier. If buy a drum of 209 litres even cheaper. around RM2 per liter.

like what khoyos mentioned, it depends on how heavy your foot is. the more you boost, the more it injects then will use faster.

you can run pure water as well, definitely no issues with this. but tuning for water alone and water/meth will be different.

Hey Khoyos, can share abit on your tuning part? what water/meth to fuel ratio you use? mine starts injecting at 0.5 bar, using 315cc/min nozzle.

 

[D7zul]

yupz..

it's juz a lil bit hydrogen & a lil bit power..

if u want to be 100% hidrogen, get the honda hydrogen car

 

[Veloc]

its already proven nt to be practical , cos an engine sucks alot more air than the electrolyse water can ever give, the hybrogen is toooo tooooo little that it doesnt makes any diffrence, only cost more to install them

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

remember u flow aprox 10lb/min-15lb/min of air to generate 100-150hp for an engine
hw much can the electrolyse give hehehehe

the anwser is VNT/VGT turbo for better consumption n efficiency lolx

About the Hydrogen thing I heard a lot of testi that they work. And unlike some bullshit magnetic fuel saver bla bla bla, this actually has a science behind it. Because is supplies combustible material (hydrogen) and combustion support material (oxygen) into the engine. In turn, the car will use less petrol to produce the same amount of power. Of course not much la... The engine's vacuum will suck far more than it produce. But it is not running purely on the supplement gas. The gas is just to "enrich" only... SO okay la... If alot become like NOS effect lo...

Btw, agree about the VGT/VNT thing...

 

[khoyos]

Hey Khoyos, can share abit on your tuning part? what water/meth to fuel ratio you use? mine starts injecting at 0.5 bar, using 315cc/min nozzle.

not sure la bro, i leave it to my tuner n dont ask questions hehehe... what i know, i"m using the smallest nozzle among the 3 nozzles given in the kit.

 

[mengz]

not sure la bro, i leave it to my tuner n dont ask questions hehehe... what i know, i"m using the smallest nozzle among the 3 nozzles given in the kit.

hehehe, you not curious about what your tuner do to your car?

smallest nozzle means 130cc/min. depending on the size of your injectors, i'd say you're probably injecting only about 3%-5%

 

[jinkl]

About the Hydrogen thing I heard a lot of testi that they work. And unlike some bullshit magnetic fuel saver bla bla bla, this actually has a science behind it. Because is supplies combustible material (hydrogen) and combustion support material (oxygen) into the engine. In turn, the car will use less petrol to produce the same amount of power. Of course not much la... The engine's vacuum will suck far more than it produce. But it is not running purely on the supplement gas. The gas is just to "enrich" only... SO okay la... If alot become like NOS effect lo...

Btw, agree about the VGT/VNT thing...

share the hydrogen links la bro, i also would like to read for knowledge :)

 

[AlucarD]

Have been running water/meth injection for years on my cars and friends cars... but mainly for high boost/ignition timing or compression purposes. Used mainly to suppress knock. Car is tuned with water/meth injection and without it will knock :P But yes if tuned with Ron95 I guess it can be use to suppress knock. Get a progressive controller if you want to do this instead on just injecting at max duty cycle at a particular point. So you start injecting way earlier with a small flow and as it goes up the curve the flow increases. This can also be mapped to your TPS, EGT, RPM and etc etc to make it more accurate and on demand. Pretty cool when you're whacking it and intake air temps shows 27c and your intake manifold is cold like ice...

A good local write up and installation pics can be found here The SP Files: Water Methanol Injecton

Yes, you can make you own methanol/water mixture just get it from them industrial suppliers. I get 25L jerry cans for around RM70-80 and that can last you for months or years depending on how heavy your foot is. Just remember that pure aka 100% methanol is highly poisonous and needs to be handle with a bunny suit. Even the industrial grade 97-98% is highly flammable. So be careful when playing with it. I'd strongly advise you NOT to store it at home.

They are many Websites, after market parts and shops selling them. Just Google and learn all you can.