how to improve the performance of 4G13 stock engine

[dakwan5555]

4g15 can use 4g18 crank???...

4g18 is code for waja 1.6 engine and get the 1st model one bro :)

---------- Post added at 04:31 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 04:21 AM ----------

Probably not. But what most people do is use the campro one. *ahem cough secret cough ahem*

For s4ph crank, don't forget to grind the bottom end (for crank/conrod clearance)of the block and full engine balancing too..

 

[azharzawawi]

thanks S16 for the info..

does it means that i have to rebore my block to fit the 74mm piston?

waa...really newbie laa bro...huhuhu

 

[S16]

I myself still on learning process bro... yup, ur block need to be rebored... If your budget allow, go for 1.5 block as u wont regret for it... can use 78mm oversized pistons with 4g15 block... :)

---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:04 AM ----------

if u wanna get more info about fitting 4g18 crank shaft on 4g15, can try PM khguan...

 

[kanthang]

helo everyone. i have a 4g15 engine which has just failed jpj inspection. Whats best way around getting the engine back in order to pass the inspection? It failed because they claimed that engine no was tampered with. So far, I know 2 options:
1) Change the whole engine - RM3k (include labor)
2) Change the block - below RM1k(cheaper but labor will be expensive and jpj endorsement will be tedious.)

Anyone with suggestions, i would really appreciate it

 

[ixeo]

helo everyone. i have a 4g15 engine which has just failed jpj inspection. Whats best way around getting the engine back in order to pass the inspection? It failed because they claimed that engine no was tampered with. So far, I know 2 options:
1) Change the whole engine - RM3k (include labor)
2) Change the block - below RM1k(cheaper but labor will be expensive and jpj endorsement will be tedious.)

Anyone with suggestions, i would really appreciate it

Go straight to a 4G93 block.. still within 30% allowance..

 

[S16]

helo everyone. i have a 4g15 engine which has just failed jpj inspection. Whats best way around getting the engine back in order to pass the inspection? It failed because they claimed that engine no was tampered with. So far, I know 2 options:
1) Change the whole engine - RM3k (include labor)
2) Change the block - below RM1k(cheaper but labor will be expensive and jpj endorsement will be tedious.)

Anyone with suggestions, i would really appreciate it

Firstly, I don't think so a complete engine (without wiring) gonna cost you RM3k with labor charge. If not mistaken, just an engine is around RM1.3k without installation. Its hard to get only a block only as the availability mostly without custom letter/form.

Can you provide us more info? U just transplanted the engine or what?

 

[firezy]

good morning,

i know it is an old thread that i dug out but just dont want to restart any new thread as basically it is same. yes, now is 2018, im taking over a 1994/1995 Iswara A/B manual gear, with 4G13P as it heart ever since. it has done top overhaul few years back to fix up the white smoke and the engine oil reduction/top up issue.

objectives:

1. better performance without cost of an arm or leg, understand that each HP come with dollar n cent, let's work around Rm3k +/- as budget, just for the engine enhancement.

2. not overenthu toward changing engine as finding 4G61 which is very old engine reliability/condition of it, 4G9x/sohc/dohc/mivec need to alter/mod the engine mounting. as uncle that going thru mid life crisis, really do not have the patience to let the car sit in workshop more than i'm driving it.

3. using it as town driving and if condition allow, do not mind some distance driving like jb-kl, tahan in jam for hours, etc.


now, my questions are below, really appreciate the kind wording from any of you that have done it, been there, learn it, etc that so kind of you taken your precious time to read up and answering (if you can).

1. 4G13P can fit in 4G15P block assuming the head is the same (correct me if I'm wrong), will the oem piston/conrod too small for 4G15P block? If yes, meaning to say need to find the full set piston/conrod? are they sharing same crankshaft, bearing, etc?

2. If chose the option of 4G15P block, internal enhancement on piston/conrod/crankshaft of 4G18P, this will need to bore the 4G15P block, if running on high rpm, which i usually do bcos the other car im driving is turbo, hence my driving style will always high rpm and turbo kick and the g-force feel, of course not applicable in this 4G13P but still wanted to ask whether such stroker kit + my driving will eventually crack the block or my head 1st. Yeah, this Q defying my objectives, but really wish to know what's the outcome. Thanks.

3. Current gearbox, hmmm... can engaging gear but at times it feel like the box wanted to drop off... to solve this, by overhaul the gearbox?

4. Performance Carb, after some reading it seem like if no patience dont go for it as a lot of tuning/tweaking needed. If so, finding 4G15P block + EFI will be better option, as OEM carb engine, if add on EFI, extra wiring + ecu needed, hence will it be extra headache? or stick to oem carb, anything to do to for enhancement?

5. This car really like an old man on ciggarettes for long long time, each morning wake up, it will choke as if engine dropping off until it warm up, relatively acceptable level. It can't immediately action like drop off pant and viola, and need long foreplay (too long in my opinion) before actual action. Read up some, it says carburetor, fuel line, spark plugs, distributor, etc, really would like to rectify this.

6. Clutch... is due... overdue actually... any recommendation?

7. Brake, if enhancement done, this need to relook as safety 1st always important. I lurked around saw Nissan brake servo double layer pump can PNP, is it better than oem servo? or just add on the brake booster pump? I have bad experience taking over those bigger brake kit from half cut, etc... it jammed and lots of headache.

8. Lastly, i'm from JB, hence those recomendation has to be done in JB. Any highly recommended, trusted, reputable and done before such trivial modification really appreciate your kind gesture to inform me.

Finally, to sell the car, it do not worth much. to fix it up, run errand, go deeper inner road for trial/jungle runs, bike racing, dirt plantation, will be good using such car of course reliability as well, as stranded in middle of nowehere really no eyes see...

thanks in advance for your kind inputs

 

[Izso]

Hi Firezy, first of all I just wanted to put my 2 cents forward before answering you. Since this car has been phased out along with Wira, I'd personally sell it, get an Axia for daily rough use.

i know it is an old thread that i dug out but just dont want to restart any new thread as basically it is same. yes, now is 2018, im taking over a 1994/1995 Iswara A/B manual gear, with 4G13P as it heart ever since. it has done top overhaul few years back to fix up the white smoke and the engine oil reduction/top up issue.

Free cars are always nice. Even beat-up bangers like yours.

1. 4G13P can fit in 4G15P block assuming the head is the same (correct me if I'm wrong), will the oem piston/conrod too small for 4G15P block? If yes, meaning to say need to find the full set piston/conrod? are they sharing same crankshaft, bearing, etc?

2. If chose the option of 4G15P block, internal enhancement on piston/conrod/crankshaft of 4G18P, this will need to bore the 4G15P block, if running on high rpm, which i usually do bcos the other car im driving is turbo, hence my driving style will always high rpm and turbo kick and the g-force feel, of course not applicable in this 4G13P but still wanted to ask whether such stroker kit + my driving will eventually crack the block or my head 1st. Yeah, this Q defying my objectives, but really wish to know what's the outcome. Thanks.

The head for the 4G13 if I'm not mistake is PNP to the block of the 4G15. But don't bother trying to mix and match. A complete 4G15 engine (VDO not MMC) should be in the 1k to sub-1k price range and with wiring and all maybe plus minus RM300. Buy a complete 4G15 VDO engine with wiring, overhaul it, install it for probably less than your 3k budget.

What you're talking about is an old open secret. Waja crankshaft, 4G15 conrods, FLX 1.6 pistons and hey presto you get close to 1.7L stroke and oversized pistons. I would recommend boring the cylinders either way since the block would be damn old. And doing this btw will exceed your budget assuming you buy the crankshaft and conrods used and piston new. Some other modifications will need to be done too but this sorta thing should be peanuts for an old-school mechanic.

3. Current gearbox, hmmm... can engaging gear but at times it feel like the box wanted to drop off... to solve this, by overhaul the gearbox?

Check your gearbox mounts, the shifter linkage bushes and that should be all you need. If you got the budget look for Racetech a M'sian performance company that specialized in 4Gxx mods. They made solid bushes for the gear shifter linkage and lots of other awesome stuff.

4. Performance Carb, after some reading it seem like if no patience dont go for it as a lot of tuning/tweaking needed. If so, finding 4G15P block + EFI will be better option, as OEM carb engine, if add on EFI, extra wiring + ecu needed, hence will it be extra headache? or stick to oem carb, anything to do to for enhancement?

Don't bother with carb la. You already complained about chain smoker difficult to start morning start. That's normal for old carb cars. Swapping over to EFI will definitely be better on the FC and morning start. But carb to EFI conversion needs a good mech to do unless you're transplanting an entire engine and wiring across. Then that should be PNP.

5. This car really like an old man on ciggarettes for long long time, each morning wake up, it will choke as if engine dropping off until it warm up, relatively acceptable level. It can't immediately action like drop off pant and viola, and need long foreplay (too long in my opinion) before actual action. Read up some, it says carburetor, fuel line, spark plugs, distributor, etc, really would like to rectify this.

Service the carb, check your spark plugs, distributor and fuel pump and.... swap to EFI

6. Clutch... is due... overdue actually... any recommendation?

Stock is best. Changing to anything else with stock power is pointless.

7. Brake, if enhancement done, this need to relook as safety 1st always important. I lurked around saw Nissan brake servo double layer pump can PNP, is it better than oem servo? or just add on the brake booster pump? I have bad experience taking over those bigger brake kit from half cut, etc... it jammed and lots of headache.

Personally I think bigger pumps are better but you need to learn to modulate your brake pedal if you do this. The tendency to over-brake is always there so lockup is a possibility. Apart from double layer servo, you should think about those brake lines and a good set of pads + drums. Cars that old usually have worn out rubber brake lines and no one ever spends on good brake pads. No need for steel braided hoses, stock new rubber ones are cheaper and actually better since they are more flexible and the new rubber is less prone to expansion, and since you plan to go off-road rough usage with this car just stick with OEM replacement. Braided hoses in dusty / muddy environment need constant cleaning and care otherwise run a risk of leakage.

 

[firezy]

Izso,

Thanks for your 2 cents and of course priceless mins to read/reply to me.

1. 4g15 enging kosong with surat quoted for rm1.65k, without surat just block (need to give my 13 block) rm950, these are without installation cost. i have not really on the ground checking from shop to shop, as of now just on whatsapp and few calls. It seem to get a good 1 is like finding needle in haystack. hence, sub rm1k, i think is littlebit tough even without gst these days the shop will tell you, aiya, the stock i have in store was before gst scrapped. so no choice but to add on, so UBAH/Malangsial 2.0 apa also i dunno... (just to rub on, nothing political)

2. EFI, this is another thing i blur with... meaning it has to come with ecu. and my current ride is carb which literally mechanical and no wayar science to it. EFI/VDO i must make it very clear to mekanik (if i able to get a good 1, which usually wont know until the car is out, whether it will sit in workshop more than i drive? lets keep finger cross, and hopefully some good and kind forumers can pointed me to the right/do before workshop in JB that have done/did the same mod and no problem)

3. open secret, i guess too much to swallow for 4g18 crank, 4g15 conrod and FLX 1.6 piston. bore either the block/cyclinder as i said on my kind of driving... the chances it crack faster than my balls, quite high.

4. gearbox, noted.

5. interim, if cant get 15 block/head, then shud just service the carb and see how it goes.

6. clutch... i hope when changing block, this will change as well, noted on OEM.

7. brake, standard of using bendix metal king/titanium on NA been traced long way. yeah, steel braided, is kind of wasting time, is better changing new rubber hose and using the plastic tie to tighten it and prevent from expansion, and also flush the DOT oil.

8. some friends telling me UNLESS sentimental value, else really F it off. indeed it hold something to my mom... so just want to redo, not overdo, sometimes to pick up errands, go pasar buy fish/vege, etc... looking at the car... i guess going to spend a small fortune on it soon... replace the rear bonnet, reskin as plenty of rusted holes, dynamat roof, seat/cushion OMG, speakers, non working dash/speedo/etc...

dem... so many things to do... so limited moola...

 

[ixeo]

Very honest opinion, after going thru the whole modding phase etc. on a, lets just say, not so suitable platform. It's not worth the effort and money unless you really really really really love that platform for no good reason.

Like our friend says, inherit it, drive the crap out of it, sell it and get a better car. Don't dump more money into the pit.

 

[Izso]

1. 4g15 enging kosong with surat quoted for rm1.65k, without surat just block (need to give my 13 block) rm950, these are without installation cost. i have not really on the ground checking from shop to shop, as of now just on whatsapp and few calls. It seem to get a good 1 is like finding needle in haystack. hence, sub rm1k, i think is littlebit tough even without gst these days the shop will tell you, aiya, the stock i have in store was before gst scrapped. so no choice but to add on, so UBAH/Malangsial 2.0 apa also i dunno... (just to rub on, nothing political)

Wah... prices have gone up. I just found this on Mudah :

https://www.mudah.my/4g15+saga+fuel+injection-66248482.htm

A complete saga EFI for 2k. Sometimes makes you wonder if it's worth upgrading your engine. Also I found a 4G15 block for RM500 on Mudah, your 950 price is a bit high. Sounds like it might be just better to maintain what you have.

2. EFI, this is another thing i blur with... meaning it has to come with ecu. and my current ride is carb which literally mechanical and no wayar science to it. EFI/VDO i must make it very clear to mekanik (if i able to get a good 1, which usually wont know until the car is out, whether it will sit in workshop more than i drive? lets keep finger cross, and hopefully some good and kind forumers can pointed me to the right/do before workshop in JB that have done/did the same mod and no problem)

Honestly it's not going to be worth converting your carb to EFI. You'll need to get all the sensors, the crankpulley (assuming you opt for VDO), the ECU and the wiring guy needs to know what he's doing.

7. brake, standard of using bendix metal king/titanium on NA been traced long way. yeah, steel braided, is kind of wasting time, is better changing new rubber hose and using the plastic tie to tighten it and prevent from expansion, and also flush the DOT oil.

OMG.. I absolutely effing hate Metal king from Bendix. It has absolutely horrible cold bite and that may be why you think you have shit brakes. I think there's a new Trestor Advantage model coming out soon or already out. Use that instead.

Also, new rubber brake hoses are already very very hard. If you're going to cable tie the hose, do it on your old hose, don't waste it on your new hose. Cable ties is just to prevent expansion. New hoses won't expand at all or very very very minimally.

8. some friends telling me UNLESS sentimental value, else really F it off. indeed it hold something to my mom... so just want to redo, not overdo, sometimes to pick up errands, go pasar buy fish/vege, etc... looking at the car... i guess going to spend a small fortune on it soon... replace the rear bonnet, reskin as plenty of rusted holes, dynamat roof, seat/cushion OMG, speakers, non working dash/speedo/etc...

Dynamat roof for what? Waste money la. Get those sound insulation sponges like superlon or something and stuff it in your roof liner cukup la. Don't make the car heavier or prone to rust with more bitumen based products. And fix the car and make it road worthy before doing things like speakers and stuff. It's a daily beater, you don't want it to become a thief magnet with all that speakers and stuff. Do you know how easy it is to break into a Saga/Wira/Iswara?

 

[firezy]

ixeo,
looking at the numbers, it does put me off... but for my mom, i guess no choice but to make it a little rideable/sitable.

izso,
yeah... prices has increased vs many many years back... was thinking to push that 15block to rm1k including pasang (but no surat, can skin off the serial and etch 13 serial number on it) ILLEGAL, so scrapped the idea rather advocate stealing of cars for spare parts.

metal king... kekeke the disc will uneven... need to reskim... but was told the latest version titanium better. but no chance to try cos my turbo using yellow stuff, also need to heat up baru makan... so... ok ok la...

whatever that are inside literally just for start engine, isi minyak jalan, tekan brek boleh berhenti. speakers, radio, remote, speedo, odo, etc all as good as for display, non working condition. when raining, i guess need to shout only can hear what people saying, that's why the idea to sound proof it but downside is heavy.

in short, it is literally a junk. if im not into trail run, biking, etc... really no bother to redo it.

 

[vr2turbo]

When the engine supply gets less, that is the time it goes up in price.....lol

 

[RENESIS VIII]

Speaking about taking over a 4G13 Saga Iswara Aeroback, it does sound a lot like my situation this year. Early on this year, I decided to take up my grandfather's Saga Iswara for daily use to work. He stopped driving in middle of 2016 and the car is left outdoors rotting under the sun ever since then with occasionally startup once in a while. Regarding the car's condition, the external paint is fading due to constant sunlight exposure for years and as for the engine, it is pretty much neglected by my grandfather. He is the type that doesn't change engine oil at all since he got the car in 2006, only top up oil when necessary. He drives the car daily to nearby places mostly for the past 10 years. What I can say is, the engine condition is not really that good and I am fully aware of it. I've asked around how much can the car be sold now and I've got people quoting me as low as RM800. Looking at it that way, there is no point to sell off the car and I felt that it is always better to have an extra car at home to use in case of emergency. Plus the fact that it is already quite beat up on the outside, I don't have much worries in driving and parking this car to anywhere that I am going since any dings and bangs added to the car means nothing much.

After driving the car for 6 months, I find the car not bad after all but that is after I fixed a lot of things. I mean, although there are problems here and there, this car is relatively cheap and easy to fix. So far, the car hasn't failed me at all from getting to my destination. Means, no break downs halfway when driving or unable to start the car. Anything wrong, I can still drive the car normally to the mechanic to get it sorted out. Here is a list of things that I have done to the car so far. I am quite picky on things like my engine condition so I tend to fix more than what is necessary to run the car and some of the things that I have done is really just an optional choice like the audio player. Here goes the list.

1. Oil Change 20W-50 Mineral, Spark Plugs (RM90)

2. Front left door lock actuator (RM47)

3. Key alarm lock battery (RM20)

4. Metre cluster repair (RM40)

5. Distributor O ring oil seal, Fuel filter (RM50)

6. 4x Maxxis MA-P3 Tyres (RM500)

7. Radiator cap (RM20)

8. Exhaust muffler (RM150)

9. Radiator fan switch, Carburetor auto choke (RM170)

10. Gearbox oil (RM85)

11. Fender Signal (RM9)

12. Audio player (RM220)

13. Top Overhaul (incl a whole cylinder head from Japan halfcut, new piston rings, new valve seals), Steering rack boot, Driveshaft boot + engine oil, gearbox oil, coolant (RM870)

Altogether it adds up to RM2271. Round it up to RM2.3k is enough I suppose. The car now runs much better than it ever did before after all these repairs. Some might think it is stupid to spend more than what the car is worth but for me, I think it is ok because I will be using this car for long term and I suppose it will save me more money than buying a new car. A new car will depreciate, lose more money on interest rate if you take up a loan, pay more for yearly insurance premium and maintenance in service centre is also more expensive especially for labour charges.

I hope this can help you a bit, Firezy. Thank you for reading.

 

[firezy]

vr2tebu,
i guess so, and those GST add on, devalued against USD, etc... habis...

renesis,
indeed same situation. i dont even dare to check the price of a 1994/1995 iswara... bcos scare i might fall off from chair... from your number rm800, really no eye see.

this iswara that im going to take over, did a top overhaul few years back, basically it is in running condition, but just not up to my preferences, of course at such, POKET PECAH is inevitable. it is just the matter, how far/deep im into fixing it up.

- fixing those holes/leakages as of raining front passenger seat will be flooded, (unknown where leak, need to get it check)
- did an intensive read up on 4g13 vs 4g15 vs 4g18

The SOHC 4G13 displaces 1.3 L 12 valves (1298 cc) (73 hp) with a bore and stroke of 71.0 mm x 82.0 mm
The SOHC 4G15 displaces 1.5 L (1,468 cc) with a bore and stroke of 75.5 mm x 82.0 mm.
The SOHC 4G18 displaces en el1.6 L (1,584 cc) with a bore and stroke of 76.0 mm x 87.3 mm.

basically the block of 13/15 are the same except the stroke/crankshaft. on theory if im heading for 18 internal which crank, conrod and piston, i can literally bore my existing 13 block to fit. the issue will be to bore 5.3mm x 4 cylinders = 21.2mm, i dunno how reliable the block will be thereafter. many reviews saying ok, no issue, depend on enginnering machine that boring it, depend mekanik skill and so on so forth. so my take will be if i able to find the right block, 18 internal, i might go for it, else i stick to 13. what i will do is port n polish but that also subjective.

ultimately, just want to keep that car and keep my mom happy that we arent selling it off as it was part of her blood and sweat to pay for it too. just to keep it clean, running and fixing up those what supposed to be.

really thank you for sharing the cost of your fixing up the iswara. that at least giving me a guideline that what i supposed to lookout for. to complete make over, it would easily cost few more Ks... which i do not think i will go for that... unless strike 4D with my oldman's blessing. kekekeke...