Damper tuning on coilovers

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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I am using HWL ST1 adjustable (oren one) in my persona. The spring rate on the front is 8k and rear is 4k. However my doubt is on the damper settings. Based on my research, some say damper setting depends on spring rate while some others say set it to full hard or soft and tune from there based on driving style. But my question is :

1) can this damper setting helps handle understeer/oversteer ? If yes then which one need to be harden or soften for both situation ?

2) can this damper setting help reduce body roll ? if yes then which setting need to be harden ? is it the rear ?

Not so familiar with adjustables yet but wanna learn a little :stupido2::stupido2::bawling::bawling:
 

vr2turbo

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To me, dampers are not the only things involved in over steer and under steer including body roll.
Tyres, camber setting, FWD or RWD and ARB all plays a part.....
 

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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To me, dampers are not the only things involved in over steer and under steer including body roll.
Tyres, camber setting, FWD or RWD and ARB all plays a part.....
Yup tyres side, it need to be grippy and the normally if the car understeer (for ff normally) you would use wider tyres on the front compare to the rear ones

and camber also will be on negative for front if understeer.

and thicker arb on the rear helps reduce body roll and understeer character of the car
Lets say if its ff. Roughly correct kan ??

But lets say this is right, so what are the things can the damper provide from its side ??
 

vr2turbo

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Yup tyres side, it need to be grippy and the normally if the car understeer (for ff normally) you would use wider tyres on the front compare to the rear ones

and camber also will be on negative for front if understeer.

and thicker arb on the rear helps reduce body roll and understeer character of the car
Lets say if its ff. Roughly correct kan ??

But lets say this is right, so what are the things can the damper provide from its side ??
Not an expert, but probably needs tuning difference between front and rear to overcome over and under steer. Body roll to me is stiffer to overcome. but when too stiff the ride can be bumpy or sometimes jerky as in hard jolts...:smokin:
 

Izso

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Izso

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Suspension is a black art. You have to consider a few things first :

- Are you looking for comfort or handling? Or both? Both means you'll have to compromise either one. There is no such thing as perfect handling with comfort unless you got a huge budget, then there are options out there that are close to being both comfortable and good handling.

- What is your budget? Money makes the world go round.

- What car? Some cars no matter how you mod won't make much of a difference since some chassis designs were just not meant for hard driving and are made 'safer' understeery or something like that.


After considering those few things, then there's a few things to consider when you mod handling :

- ARB are exactly that - anti roll bars. You want less roll get stiffer ARBs. But stiffer ARBs will make the car either oversteery or understeery depending on the combination of the front and rear ARB stiffness. Also the weight of your car affects how stiff you can go with the ARBs. Too soft and a heavy car will have almost no effect. Too stiff with a light car will make it drive weird. Stiff front soft rear or soft front stiff rear, or stiff front and rear all have different effects on the car and it depends on the car too. Torsion beam rears may not have as much effect with stiff ARBs vs independent suspension setup. A lot to consider. Best to trial and error to find out what suites you best.

- Spring stiffness plus absorber compression rate plus damping rates all affect how the suspension works. The faster the damping and compression, the bumpier the ride but at the same time the better it'll react in corners and the compression will work directly with the springs whose main function to try to "sproing" out full length as much as possible. Compression rate will determine how fast or slow the springs 'stretch' / 'sproing' (I dunno whats the proper term) which determines how comfortable your suspension will be.

- What type of tyres you use affect everything too. Wider tyres means more grip but if car is too light it won't grip as much or will be more prone to aquaplaning, harder sidewalls means better cornering / steering response but bumpier ride. Soft sidewalls means flexing tyres which makes cornering a little more slushy or slower, but way better at absorbing bumps and minor jolts which will upset your cornering ability.

- What sort of rims do you have? Lightweight rims affects overall unsprung mass. Affects acceleration, top speed etc. Larger/smaller diameter rims affect how much power you can plant on the road which affects how you corner / handling / etc.

- What sort of driver are you? How you drive dictates what sort of suspension setup you need.

A lot of things to consider la. Your question is way too generic.
 
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sweelt

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sweelt

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I got experience with hwl st-1, spring rate front 8k. Just too hard for normal street drive. Since my wira is light.
Been gone through damper tuning myself, one click by one click....
Yet, cant drive over 130kph. Very bouncy. My bone, butt can handle but safety is at risk. Bridge joint, toll bumps...etc just bone breaking for my mom but my son enjoy it.
6k front /4k rear is just nice. Reminder, don hope stock comfort on coilovers. We want is control, drivability.

Like izso mention, handling got many parts inter-related.
Coilovers, macam macam bar , rims, tyre, car weight...etc

Even before i jump to ftuned, dealer ask me msg Farouk.
Explanation from farouk about same as izso.
 
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vr2turbo

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You guys gave him full explanation....:driver:
He already have a set of HWL and need to know just using dampers can set for over/under steer and less body roll or not.....lol:burnout:
 

y2188

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y2188

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Can try stiffening the rear dampers a few click to see if it helps your understeering problem, if not just get 6kg spring rates at the rear :biggrin:

EDIT : stiffer rear arb, softer front arb helps to reduce understeer as well
 

sweelt

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sweelt

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Hahaha....but if spring rate wrong.
Like i face before, how many times i adjust the damper soft/hard.
Handling take me merry go round 360 degree, until i penin.
I patient enough for 1 yr with hwll set.
 

vr2turbo

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vr2turbo

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Hahaha....but if spring rate wrong.
Like i face before, how many times i adjust the damper soft/hard.
Handling take me merry go round 360 degree, until i penin.
I patient enough for 1 yr with hwll set.
That is the thing, he here to learn, so with you sharing your experience he will be better off......lol:rofl:
 

Izso

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Even before i jump to ftuned, dealer ask me msg Farouk.
Explanation from farouk about same as izso.
WOW.... you on Ftuned now? :adore:


Btw to the TS : understand what is understeer and oversteer, and learn how to induce it. I can induce oversteer on a Wira quite easily with the right setup.

And understeer is when your front loses grip and you wash out straight instead of turning. This is usually when your weight is shifted front and breaks your front tyre traction. So how does one setup their car to do this? Soft front springs+over hard rear springs will do this, and overly stiff front ARB also will do this too. But this really depends on your overall setup.

So if you're looking to reduce understeer (without taking into consideration the way you drive) one of the things you need to look at is your front vs rear balance and how it works with your driving style.

Dark art like I said.. not so simple.
 

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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Hahahaha thanks everyone for sharing out some tips on coilovers. Yea for now I just want to learn about the damper part. But tested out few combinations just now to get rough idea. Because the shop I had this coilovers fix didn't explain anything about it. Even worse, once I got it fix at the shop I bought, I check on my own to learn something and realised the preload, dampers and bodyshift level on each coilovers are different from others. Left and right also not the same. End up I did myself everything back (I think its ok now as not cacat). Only stuck a little at damper part. Hahahaha
 

sweelt

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sweelt

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Bodyshift u easily know.
Preload i set another 5mm from zero.
Yup, dampening is a bit tricky. Cant have both world in one go.
Set for street typical malaysian road or track use.
Or road in KL is flat ? I duno...
 

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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Bodyshift u easily know.
Preload i set another 5mm from zero.
Yup, dampening is a bit tricky. Cant have both world in one go.
Set for street typical malaysian road or track use.
Or road in KL is flat ? I duno...
Isee, I set preload at zero. I'm from subang so the roads ok la unless if go out of subang then some parts are bad. But mostly use this car at highway only. So I thought of put the front not to hard. More to soft side and rears on middle level. So thats why wanna know about dampers so can do minor adjustments after test drive
 

^pomen_GTR^

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I am using HWL ST1 adjustable (oren one) in my persona. The spring rate on the front is 8k and rear is 4k. However my doubt is on the damper settings. Based on my research, some say damper setting depends on spring rate while some others say set it to full hard or soft and tune from there based on driving style. But my question is :

1) can this damper setting helps handle understeer/oversteer ? If yes then which one need to be harden or soften for both situation ?

2) can this damper setting help reduce body roll ? if yes then which setting need to be harden ? is it the rear ?

Not so familiar with adjustables yet but wanna learn a little :stupido2::stupido2::bawling::bawling:
thats too hard spring rate for street...


swap front spring with 5k spring and rear to 3k spring...then only u can play with damping setting to your liking....


with that current spring only good for track, no amount of damping adjustment can help much...
 

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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thats too hard spring rate for street...


swap front spring with 5k spring and rear to 3k spring...then only u can play with damping setting to your liking....


with that current spring only good for track, no amount of damping adjustment can help much...
So let's say I don't care comfort. Handling is more important. Then based on this spring rates at around how many clicks should I set ? My adjustable has 15 clicks. Because I wanted a good handling compared to comfort.
 

^pomen_GTR^

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^pomen_GTR^

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So let's say I don't care comfort. Handling is more important. Then based on this spring rates at around how many clicks should I set ? My adjustable has 15 clicks. Because I wanted a good handling compared to comfort.
like i said... 8k spring rate not suitable for road use....it would works great on track use with high grip tyre....but handling not just about absorbers...


if u want to maintain that high spring rate u need better grip tyre, and more detailed alignment+camber setting....


i cant say how many click to set because i'm not the one driving it....and i'm not sure what kind of road condition u were facing....


and u want handling over comfort...there is a lot more than just setting up the damper setting...

1-u need correct ride height
2-u need properly sized anti roll bar front and rear
3-u need proper alignment and camber
4-u need proper spring rate to start with before setting up the damping setting
5-u need proper tyre to fully utilize the potential....but if u decide to get better grip tyre...or just retain your current tyre...u still need to do 1-2-3-4 all of those step above before able to look into 5 and then enjoy full handling potential...


so before u start thinkering about anything.... get the spring rate correct for you usage first....like i've suggested above... 5k front and 3k rear.....or atleast 5k front with 4k rear....
 

GuyInPersona

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GuyInPersona

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like i said... 8k spring rate not suitable for road use....it would works great on track use with high grip tyre....but handling not just about absorbers...


if u want to maintain that high spring rate u need better grip tyre, and more detailed alignment+camber setting....


i cant say how many click to set because i'm not the one driving it....and i'm not sure what kind of road condition u were facing....


and u want handling over comfort...there is a lot more than just setting up the damper setting...

1-u need correct ride height
2-u need properly sized anti roll bar front and rear
3-u need proper alignment and camber
4-u need proper spring rate to start with before setting up the damping setting
5-u need proper tyre to fully utilize the potential....but if u decide to get better grip tyre...or just retain your current tyre...u still need to do 1-2-3-4 all of those step above before able to look into 5 and then enjoy full handling potential...


so before u start thinkering about anything.... get the spring rate correct for you usage first....like i've suggested above... 5k front and 3k rear.....or atleast 5k front with 4k rear....
Alright thanks bro, will invest on the springs next before moving on other mods
 

Izso

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Izso

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So let's say I don't care comfort. Handling is more important. Then based on this spring rates at around how many clicks should I set ? My adjustable has 15 clicks. Because I wanted a good handling compared to comfort.
Alright thanks bro, will invest on the springs next before moving on other mods
I have a different take compared to what Pomen said. If you can handle 8k springs and don't feel too bad in terms of comfort - I would just stick with them and fiddle with the damper hard/soft setting. Comfort is relative. Some people can take more bumps than other people.

Btw, having played with pre-loading and read about it online, pre-loading is pointless apparently. Spring reaction is the same whether loaded or not, you are just restricting how far the springs can compress and un-compress (decompress?). Just set the springs to allow for maximum spring movement. Then adjust the bodyshift to get the desired ride height. Too low and you will affect your drive shafts and suspension bushes so don't go all slammed unless that was your goal all along.

Anyway, I dunno what characteristics your absorbers have. But what I did with my old BC Racing was I stared at 10 (max was 30 clicks) and slowly increased it by 2 clicks everytime I found it was too soft or something was wrong. Increase 2 clicks, but if needed I can decrease 1 click or 2. Keep increasing the clicks until it's too hard, that's when you dial it down. When you increase, you increase front and back together.