6 speed or e-manage?

[Veloc]

Dear sifus and experienced seniors,

Having a dilemma now on my next upgrade. I am now using a 4AGE Blacktop on AE111 chassis. When I swapped the engine the last time, I retained the 4AFE gearbox with a high final drive. Acceleration is slower but I do get a relaxed cruising and good fuel economy. Sometimes when wanting to have some fun, I feel that it is too sluggish. I have been thinking of 2 mods of approximately the same price:

1.) C160 6 speed 1-way LSD
2.) Piggyback such as e-manage.

I am slightly inclined towards e-manage because buying used gearbox is always a risk; and I have heard bad stories about the weak C160 internals. Plus, piggyback can be tuned to run on our inferior fuel. C56 gearbox is out of question as I do not like high cruising rpm for daily drive.

Can I feel significant improvement from installing piggyback? Or nothing can beat the 6 speed gearbox?



Thanks!

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

i always think that piggyback cant do much...

it doesnt alter close loop..
it change open loop base on prediction...

still think save the money, get standalone...

sites like autospeed prefer reflash stock ecu rather than piggyback...

 

[Izso]

yeah agree with waiora_protuner. Don't bother with piggyback.

But I don't think you should bother with the 6-speed either, used GB is risky and will be costly to rectify unless you're buying it from a trusted source.

 

[vr2turbo]

Some more LSD one more costly also....

 

[kenklyap]

go for greddy emanage if you don't want a high rpm on high speed cruising
let the tuner know what you want when tuning
have fun and good luck:proud:

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

sluggish acceleration...u need closer ratio gearbox...

not matter what....


unless u have the time and money to mix n match 12345 shorter gear ratio with tall 6th gear for highway cruising

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

go for greddy emanage if you don't want a high rpm on high speed cruising
let the tuner know what you want when tuning
have fun and good luck:proud:

i wonder if you can do that by ecu tuning...

:hmmmm:

 

[vr2turbo]

sluggish acceleration...u need closer ratio gearbox...

not matter what....


unless u have the time and money to mix n match 12345 shorter gear ratio with tall 6th gear for highway cruising

With 6 speed the ratio not better spaced?:hmmmm:

 

[^pomen_GTR^]

With 6 speed the ratio not better spaced?:hmmmm:

most of the time it wasnt evenly spaced...usually a compromise short 1st..tall 2nd and then short 3-4-5 then tall 6th again...


is i have the luxury to do custom ratio, i'll do it on every single ride i have....

(ie: all 3 of my race bike using custom ratio for ultimate performance)

car not yet since too many money involved....

 

[ragerunner]

I vote for 6 speed.

For one, I can say that you will definitely feel improved acceleration with 6 speed, whereas emanage is tuner based, and does more to optimize and improve response more than anything.

Besides, people usually start tweaking with management only after they have gotten their hardware settled. Is it possible you might wanna upgrade extractor, cams etc in the future? If yes, it's best to save your emanage for after those hardware upgrades, as that is when the fine tuning and optimization offered by the emanage really helps.

Yeah 6 speed gearboxes are somewhat infamous for synchro failures esp for gear 2 and 3 (5 speed gearboxes are not exempt from failing either, mind you) so gentler shifting is required, meaning always shift with clutch fully disengaged. That also means you should try to minimize Hot Version style speedshifting, if only to protect your 6-geared investment. Better, pricier gear oil also helps. In the event of synchro failure, I know the synchro rings can be purchased and are not too pricey, but I'm not sure about the labour to rebuild the gearbox and their results.

As for getting a 6 speed in good condition in the first place, always make sure your purchase comes with warranty (usually 1 week); a gearbox from a low milage halfcut always helps as well.

 

[Veloc]

Thanks guys for all the input... I guess, afterall, I should be aiming for a shorter and close ratio version of the 5 speed. The 6 speed is just waaayyy to pricey (around 2.5k and above for total conversion), and coupled with the famous synchro problem, i find it a bit unattractive.

 

[vr2turbo]

Thanks guys for all the input... I guess, afterall, I should be aiming for a shorter and close ratio version of the 5 speed. The 6 speed is just waaayyy to pricey (around 2.5k and above for total conversion), and coupled with the famous synchro problem, i find it a bit unattractive.

Close ratio 5 speed, then you will have high rpm cruising......

 

[KenDiriwan]

actually do you really need LSD? as for highway cruising, i find auto gearbox of 20v is much sweeter for me due to overdrive feature. Easily over 200km :D

 

[sarutobi84]

I more incline towards 6 speed gear box, you can have better acceleration and low rpm cruise in the same time.

Last time i change from 4.312 to 4.65 final drive and improves a lot on the acceleration.
#btw high final drive means better acceleration,for cruising normally either low final drive or low final gear(gear5)

Emanage go hand in hand with mechanical support such as IHE,port polish,skim head etc.
Agreed with kenklyap,with piggyback or standalone just ask tuner you want better fuel economy at cruising,he will help to lean out the cruising map(low tps/mid rpm) for you.as for WOT that you can left to tuner as this what normally tuner focus on.haha

Dear sifus and experienced seniors,

Having a dilemma now on my next upgrade. I am now using a 4AGE Blacktop on AE111 chassis. When I swapped the engine the last time, I retained the 4AFE gearbox with a high final drive. Acceleration is slower but I do get a relaxed cruising and good fuel economy. Sometimes when wanting to have some fun, I feel that it is too sluggish. I have been thinking of 2 mods of approximately the same price:

1.) C160 6 speed 1-way LSD
2.) Piggyback such as e-manage.

I am slightly inclined towards e-manage because buying used gearbox is always a risk; and I have heard bad stories about the weak C160 internals. Plus, piggyback can be tuned to run on our inferior fuel. C56 gearbox is out of question as I do not like high cruising rpm for daily drive.

Can I feel significant improvement from installing piggyback? Or nothing can beat the 6 speed gearbox?



Thanks!

 

[BuroQ]

actually do you really need LSD? as for highway cruising, i find auto gearbox of 20v is much sweeter for me due to overdrive feature. Easily over 200km :D

Although I'm a manual kind of driver, I have to agree with Ken on this. The auto box is not bad for highway cruising especially when you get stuck in ridiculous traffic jams. Overdrive + POWA button = Overtaking or leaving those troublesome drivers that like to cucuk you like there's no tomorrow in the dust (even for a short distance )

Since I'm working from home nowadays, I don't use the highway daily anymore. I might change to a manual tranny if I have the extra moolah.

Also, other things that you might consider veloc are:

1 - Will you be using utilizing the 6th gear quite often?
2 - Pricing between a 5 speed and 6 speed tranny
3 - Mechanics that are familiar with the 6 speed and lsd issues.

I guess your best bet would be to find someone in sabah that has a stock 5 speed and 6 speed tranny whether they have no lsd, 1 way, 1.5 way or 2 way lsd and test those cars yourself.

(Well, if your lucky enough to be surrounded by those people )