On road tuning vs dyno tuning

Discussion in 'Forced Induction & Engine Management' started by liz@rd, Aug 9, 2008.

  1. cmng

    cmng Senior Member
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    Street tuning vs Dyno tuning
    it neverending arguement

    but one solid point i want to bring out
    assuming a estimated 400 to 500whp car
    go to road tuning and accident happen
    assuming tune halfway ,car lost control and end up smash something
    who bare the repair cost ?
    owner or tuner ?
     
  2. waisign

    waisign Senior Member
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    Anywhere we can do street/road tuning in Malaysia?
     
  3. renxun

    renxun Senior Member
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    if i have a "steady state dyno" i would forget about on road tuning.
     
  4. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    Road tuning can be done anywhere. I've done my road tuning using Putra Jaya highway, it was a great job. Engine clocked 7seconds to 100kmh, 16seconds to 160kmh.

    Overall 1.8seconds improvement over dyno tune that I've done earlier at GTauto.
     
  5. waisign

    waisign Senior Member
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    Thanks mate for the answer. maybe I was not clear enough on my questions earlier. What i try to mean is, where (as in which shop) offers road tuning services?
     
  6. Enslaved

    Enslaved Senior Member
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    Go look for Joshua at Millenium - he started out as a road tuner before getting his dyno and he still does road tuning. Only problem is finding a clear road to do it. Alternatively, Mat Penang at Setiawangsa Motorsports does road tuning but its usually during the wee hours of the morning when the roads are clear. Watch out for the cops though!
     
  7. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    U can try OPTIMA TUNING services (at pandan indah cheras) , call AH YEE 012 231 3638, he do road tuning for any car, his road tuning price only around RM150. He is my current best n honest tuner, after I have terrible experience with Sunway's arrogant tuners that only want to chop ppl's wallet.
     
  8. waisign

    waisign Senior Member
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    haha.. thanks mate for ur tips. Its going to step on alot of nerves but Its good to have u to step up and give feedbacks on their services! :) thanks again for this.

    Enslaved.. wah.. doing in the wee hours in the morning meh... -_-
     
  9. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    I am an avid and skeptical car lover, and focus all my time and money in engine performance, just sharing what I know n experienced.
     
  10. waisign

    waisign Senior Member
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    Im wonderring whether this shop does Dyno tune as well.. hmm..
     
  11. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    nola, Ah Yee dont have dyno tune (coz he dont believe in that)......He is expert road tuner for streetcars and trackcars.

    but if you insist to dyno tune, look for Robyn from RS Tuning in Puchong. He is a good but conservative tuner (he never tunes aggresively and almost rarely blown any engine as far as his reputation stretches) his dyno tuning costs RM250
     
  12. waisign

    waisign Senior Member
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    Im wonderring, if i were to go for Apexi Neo on my piggyback. I have to keep 2 profile logs of the street tune AND the dyno tune rite?
     
  13. Jun_EK9

    Jun_EK9 Senior Member
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    i do road tuning using guthrie highway during night time and road tuning is better compare to dyno as load is diff especially during uphill.
    sic will be a ideal place to go to but most of the time open track is like federal hwy
     
  14. Enslaved

    Enslaved Senior Member
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    Yeah, i went for a tuning session once at around 2 am but it was all for nothing as my injectors were maxed out to allow any changes made on the afc to take effect..lol
     
  15. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    actually, to fine tune, you could tune from midnite until dawn, hahah! my fren nissan blue bird dragster almost occasionally tune till dawn.....
     
  16. turbine ett

    turbine ett 5 Year | Silver

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    i will use machine dyno tune after make it any new modif....like replace new turbine, porting....or piston to look my engine capability ( torque/whp )....

    but, when i joint any drag / feel fuel consumption high/rich...i prefer to use tune on the road as well....

    and syahz 012-2864000( sport compact racing ) at USJ 1 provided both of tuning....but prefer 4 microtech / haltech user only....:driver:


    both of it have PRO n CON....:biggrin:
     
    #56 turbine ett, Dec 25, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  17. Syahz

    Syahz 5 Year | Silver

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    For me 90% complete on the dyno tuning better than On the road.10% u have to touch up from your experience for daily driving.Safety and no risk when u tune on the dyno.Moving foward with a new technology .
     
  18. Syahz

    Syahz 5 Year | Silver

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    Some good info from Haltech Tuner Forum:

    To begin let me say that using a load bearing dyno is superior in almost every way to road tuning. You can work out a better tune in a shorter amount of time in a much, much safer environment on the dyno than you can on the street. There is still a place for calibrating on the street but it should come after you've done your dyno work and want to make certain there are no driveability issues or abnormalities that didn't show up on the dyno. It's also so much more accurate to setup timing on the dyno than on the street. Spend the money on dyno time. It's worth it.

    Having said that, the easiest way to tune on the street is to start with the lowest rpm range you can maintain a steady cruise speed at and work your way up. Say 1500 rpm. If you have working cruise control that makes this so much easier. Just pick the speed, set the cruise and drive. You'll need to chase the load indicator and wideband readout around and be quick with your fingers to make adjustments. If you live in an area that is very flat you will need to use the brakes to increase load. The hand brake seems to be more easily controlled. You can very quickly roast a set of pads so be cautious and work in short intervals letting the brakes cool between. Having a long steady grade hill to work with is a big plus here. Once you have one rpm range scratched out move to the next and repeat.

    For low load tuning you want to use at least 3rd gear to keep the car steady. Gear is usually dictated by the speed you need to maintain to not be a complete nuisance to traffic. As you climb through the rev sites you will want to gear down to keep your speed down. 4500 rpm in top gear may be too fast for your local speed limits. Ultimately gear isn't too important for this stage of tuning.

    I usually work up to about 5000 rpm like. Assuming that is near your torque peak you can safely make an educated guess as to what the fuel requirements will be for the low load sites from there to the end of the rev range. It's safe to assume you want be cruising at low load at 7000 rpm anyway. Unless you're circuit racing these sites are very rarely used.

    You should now have a good commuter car that drives down the road as well as your daily drie Camry. If it bucks and pops you have work left to do. I usually do the above in stages. Make one pass through to get the car driving well but not too worried about ultimate a/f ratio and economy v. power. Once it's driving smoothly I'll go back through and begin setting very low load and cruise load sites to near stoich. As the load comes up I'll richen the mixture toward what I assume will be best power. Near 0 in/hg MAP you'll want to be at the mixture you assume will make best power, say 12.5:1, and taper that down to 14.7:1 where the car likes to cruise and below.

    With that done you move to full load tuning. You'll need to make power sweeps from low to high rpm. Start with a mixture you assume will be fat and work toward a leaner mixture. It's OK to flood the engine with fuel under boost when you first start out. With an NA car you should have most of this worked out already in the first step and now you'd only be working on the high rev sites. With a boosted car you have lots of work left to do. I'll start my runs below the point the turbo starts providing positive pressure. If you can hit full boost at 4500 I'd start at 3000 and mat the accelerator. You'll want to be datalogging this and you will need the wideband integrated into the data stream. That's really required. Watch the wideband readout as the revs come up. Lift immediately if you begin to lean out. If the tune is too fat and the engine begins to misfire lift. At this point I'm usually not worried about the datalogs I'm just roughing it in and getting it to make a clean pull to red line without being lean. Say you're shooting for 11.5:1 under boost I'd be trying to get it in the 11 - 11.5 range here and making sure it pulls cleanly to red line. Once you have that then you can begin datalogging and using the information there to narrow down the tune and get a consistent reading from boost threshold to red line.

    A partner makes this go by so much more smoothly, quickly, and safely. I can't stress the last one enough. I tune alone on the road but it's dangerous and I hate doing it. Go to a dyno... There's really no secrets to working alone. Cruise control helps a ton! It's one less gauge you have to watch. Monitoring speed, rpm, a/f ratio, engine temps, boost, and maybe the road and innocent drivers is hard enough for two people but doing it by yourself and trying to make key stroke adjustments is dangerous. Only word of advice for doing it yourself is to find a way to securely mount your laptop so you can see it and work the keyboard without it moving around on you. Take breaks, review the data, take time to think over anything that might be confusing you before moving on to the next step.

    Notice I didn't mention ignition timing. The proper way to work out timing requires a dyno IMO. You can tune to the knock threshold on the road if you have a proper know detection system but it's still not as accurate as using the dyno. Regardless of dyno of road work start with timing figures known to be conservative, work out the fuel, then move to the timing. On the dyno you can advance timing until the power doesn't rise anymore or you find the knock threshold. If power quits rising before the knock threshold there is no need to add more timing and you are probably costing yourself power at that point with further advance. On the street you can't see the reaction between power and timing and can only (hopefully) know if you've reached the knock limit.

    To answer your direct questions directly.
    1)How many runs? As many as it takes.
    2)How long should each run be? Lift if you're lean or it rich misfires. Otherwise boost threshold to red line.
    3)What gear(s) should be used? 3-top gear. Boost pulls should be 3rd or 4th. 3rd will allow full revs without a hugely excessive speed. 4th gear allows for a pull that is longer is duration and maybe some better data. 3rd gear may not provide full boost so that may be an issue.
    4)Which rpm/load points should be targeted? All of them. Work out the cruise sites first, then the full load sites. If your boost limit is 15 psi you won't be able to hold 7 psi through the rev range so you will need to interpolate between 0 in/hg and 15 psi for all rev ranges.

    Good luck.
     
  19. ipohboy

    ipohboy 15 Year | Platinum

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    Target AFR = Road tune at lowest and constant intake temp ( usually around 3-4 a.m )
    Timing Map = Dyno tune period.
     
  20. tigger5251

    tigger5251 Banned

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    The write up, more like a personal opinion to me. There are many things that dyno cannot do, it will never know the car's curb weight, how much respond the car needs during in/out corners, hill climb.

    Tuning on dyno, is driver adapting to the tuning.

    TUning on street, is tuning adapting to the driver.
     

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