Alternator versus Battery

[vr2turbo]

just to change batt only..not more than just 30sec..hehe..good info btw bro vr2

Yup, nothing wrong ok, but if spike too high more costly to repair.....

 

[Izso]

Don't do too often. Removing the battery terminal when engine is running can send electrical spikes to your ECU and fry it up...Some reading here.....

Your battery does more than just provide electricity. It also shorts AC, spikes and transients to ground. Removing the battery from the circuit allows those spikes and transients to travel around, endangering every semiconductor circuit in your car. The ECU, the speed sensitive steering, the memory seat adjustments, the cruise control, and even the car's stereo.

Even if your computers and stereo remain intact, in a great many cases removing the battery burns out the diodes in the alternator, necessitating a new alternator. If disconnecting the battery interferes with the voltage regulator's control voltage input, it's possible for the alternator voltage to go way over the top (I've heard some say hundreds of volts), frying everything.

Even the initial premise was wrong. If you disconnect the battery and the car conks out, you don't know if it conked out due to insufficient alternator current, or whether the resulting transients caused your ECU (the car's computer, which controls fuel mixture, timing, and much more) to spit out bad data, shutting down the car.

Nobody should EVER run your engine without a battery.

It's not that dramatic la. ECUs come with built in spike resistance to some degree. But you're right about the battery acting as a capacitor though. But it's a good way to test whether the alternator is working or not. In my opinion there's 2 main things that'll affect 'transients' to give out bad data. Insufficient current/voltage and lack of/poor grounding.


Jedi : I used to use a NS70 battery and a 90A alternator. The stock 70A alternator lasted for about 5 years before it gave up but only because the carbon inside it was completely worn out. My ICE power requirements are quite high which is why I needed a bigger current battery and alternator. You need to find a good alternator (recon or otherwise) and make sure your car is properly grounded. My guess is your car has been in some accident before and accident-cars tend to have bad grounding which is further compounded by the age of the car and probably worn out original grounding leads.

Imho recon alternators can't all be that bad so what I suggest you do :

- Get an aftermarket grounding kit installed and if you have one already make sure you didn't connect it in a loop which would short circuit your alternator or whatever. Dimming headlights, dashboard lights and all that is usually because of bad or worn out grounding. All cars come with stock grounding which is why you'll never see a new car with a GK having any improvements. An old car however will benefit from a GK since time will wear out everything.

- I had a aftermarket VS as well, this thing seemed to extend the life of my batteries, the batteries I use last minimally 2 years and I use dry-cell batteries.

Amongst all the electrical components in your car, the alternator is the highest current thing there and if that is breaking down all the time, something is causing it break down faster than it should. Either bad recon parts (which is rare) or short circuiting somewhere or bad grounding.

Oh what's more I had a direct charging cable from the alternator to the battery too. Faster charge to the battery so that gave me more punchier bass. If my electrical system failed a lot of things would have fried but it didn't.

 

[jedi]

im using ns70 also..just change about 2 weeks ago..before this also ns70..so dont really know diff between ns60..
so here my answer according to my car only..
1- When my engine is off, i measured the battery, it's 12.8V,
- yes this is normal volt..got circuit load..if disconnect terminal volt diff..last time my batt die on me the volt only 11.3V..could not crank anymore..

2- Then I start the engine & measure, it's 13.3V.
- yes this is normal also..like sf said take time to charge bigger batt..the volt just hover around 13~13.6V..

3- Then I turn on the headlamp + radio and measure, it's 13.09V
- for sure volt drop..headlight bulb got big watt..load is increase here..

4- Then I unplug the -ve terminal while the engine is still running, the engine WON'T die off, still running... headlamp & radio still operating like normal
- yes its going to operate like normal..alternator doing its job now..i also changing batt without turn off engine..to avoid alarm turn on..

by looking at your numbers, I think we are having the same reading.
So i think the alternator is good ?
What i think lah, as long as i remove with -ve terminal with headlamp + radio ALL ON and the engine won't die, that means the alternator is producing enough juice... am i right ?

 

[Izso]

Yes. You are probably right.

 

[Kopi]

not healthy if at any point of the car is driven (proton), the volt drops below 13.5v. Minimum is 13.5v when aircond (at full blast), headlamp (high beam), foglights, room lamp, window heater, wipers & radio turned on (even for a 15yrs old Proton). Most proton circuit voltage when every electrical switch is turned on will display 13.5-13.6v. Only occasionally for cars with big ICE, or 100/120w spotlights using 75/90A alternator & 70A battery shows 13.3-13.5. On 100A alternator + 70A batt it should still show 13.6v. but on initial startup of the day, it should make 14.1-14.4v with 60A & 70A battery, regardless of dry or wet cell, and what amp of alternator.

Many possibilites that may have led your car doing 13.3v and its not something that can be advised easily through writings, but it is something that can be confirmed that your car's electrical system is not well and need to be sort out immediately. However, do use a multimeter first (tap to battery while engine's running) to get the voltage reading correctly. Some voltmeter may show shyte reading... like those fake Apexi pen timer or... fake brand voltmeter.

 

[slipar]

not healthy if at any point of the car is driven (proton), the volt drops below 13.5v. Minimum is 13.5v when aircond (at full blast), headlamp (high beam), foglights, room lamp, window heater, wipers & radio turned on (even for a 15yrs old Proton). Most proton circuit voltage when every electrical switch is turned on will display 13.5-13.6v. Only occasionally for cars with big ICE, or 100/120w spotlights using 75/90A alternator & 70A battery shows 13.3-13.5. On 100A alternator + 70A batt it should still show 13.6v. but on initial startup of the day, it should make 14.1-14.4v with 60A & 70A battery, regardless of dry or wet cell, and what amp of alternator.

Many possibilites that may have led your car doing 13.3v and its not something that can be advised easily through writings, but it is something that can be confirmed that your car's electrical system is not well and need to be sort out immediately. However, do use a multimeter first (tap to battery while engine's running) to get the voltage reading correctly. Some voltmeter may show shyte reading... like those fake Apexi pen timer or... fake brand voltmeter.

need gounding la like this my car.. 20 years old already my car this year..

 

[scoupe]

what i did for my 20 year old car was remove all the old grounding wires re sanded the terminals and the grounding points. In some cases the grounding wire also was sanded down. i got almost 1 volt increment. :) if your gonna buy after market grounding cables buy proper ones not those rm 15 hks ones.. just my two cents.

 

[vr2turbo]

need gounding la like this my car.. 20 years old already my car this year..

Did not know your car already 20 years old. Thought mine was old....hahhaha

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Bigger amp alternator give out more current only, not higher voltage. Big amp alternator charge up your battery faster and should have enough juice to run most things

 

[slipar]

Did not know your car already 20 years old. Thought mine was old....hahhaha

---------- Post added at 01:50 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 01:47 PM ----------

Bigger amp alternator give out more current only, not higher voltage. Big amp alternator charge up your battery faster and should have enough juice to run most things

1st batch wira with rear lamp like those merc masterpiece one..hahahah..
will try diy 1st sand the ground terminal & point..if no effect grounding cable will be the choice..

 

[vr2turbo]

1st batch wira with rear lamp like those merc masterpiece one..hahahah..
will try diy 1st sand the ground terminal & point..if no effect grounding cable will be the choice..

I had the first batch Wira too. 1993 model bought in 1997, sold in 2003 because the roof rusted. That model the alternator never had problems at all for me.....

 

[ken yeang]

I had the first batch Wira too. 1993 model bought in 1997, sold in 2003 because the roof rusted. That model the alternator never had problems at all for me.....

hahahahaa, the (in)famous roof rusting and blisters....among proton Wira. Some had rusted door panel. Really brings back "sweet" memories to me.

 

[vr2turbo]

hahahahaa, the (in)famous roof rusting and blisters....among proton Wira. Some had rusted door panel. Really brings back "sweet" memories to me.

Door panel rust usually the old model Sagas....
Wira is 99% roof....

 

[jedi]

guys, thanks for all the advises.
I whacked the spare part shop nicely for selling me a FOCUS/APM alternator @ RM220
He then told me that he has original brand new alternator @ RM370, we then agreed to trade in the old unit and top up RM150 for it.

I will do something on the grounding too...

thanks !

---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 11:40 AM ----------

My guess is your car has been in some accident before and accident-cars tend to have bad grounding which is further compounded by the age of the car and probably worn out original grounding leads.

yes sir, you are absolutely right ! i had an accident before the alternator starts to give problem

 

[vr2turbo]

guys, thanks for all the advises.
I whacked the spare part shop nicely for selling me a FOCUS/APM alternator @ RM220
He then told me that he has original brand new alternator @ RM370, we then agreed to trade in the old unit and top up RM150 for it.

I will do something on the grounding too...

RM370 for original is cheap. My friend say he bought his Waja at around RM700....:hmmmm:

 

[jedi]

RM370 for original is cheap. My friend say he bought his Waja at around RM700....:hmmmm:

I asked 2 mechanic to check for me, 1 say RM350 and 1 say RM370
So i believe RM370 is genuine. warranty 1 year