What is importance between torque and horsepower?

[nurburing]

okla, i quite agree with the powerband thingie. in stock form b16a eg6 is quite a powerful car due to power to weight ratio, and its abilty to rev to 9000rpm undisputably its 1,2 gears are very fast making 0-100kmh. a stock 1600cc mivec can never catch up.

but what if, both heads up for a touge uphill race ? the person who drives b16a have to be super-fast in making gear change and maintain highrev, while the mivec driver just stick to 2nd gear and focus all his attention to handling control.

now see the picture ? plus if a 1600cc mivec throws in stndalone ecu n highcam, providing a good powerband from 3000rpm - 8000rpm do u think it cant win b16a ? mitsu engine are wellknown for WRC, honda were only in formula1.

and we mostly driving with torque NOT hp. coz we cannot hit hp(peak power) all the time and this is where torque is the most crucial

so imho, torque is more important than hp. but in laymen terms, regular ppl does amazed by small engine making BIG hp and say "AWESOME".....hehe

 

[khoo198]

guys....the topic started at Toyota thread....so pls discuss abt hows toyota's torque and horsepower only...ok?

 

[nurburing]

sorry, but the topic dint mention toyota although its a toyota thread....

anyway, carry on :)

 

[muzhaffar]

b16 maybe faster at straight line..
but at circuit or cornering road,..
20v has advantage

 

[AE75]

sorry, but the topic dint mention toyota although its a toyota thread....

anyway, carry on :)

Yeah~ Because all of big boss here are trying to show much clear view in torque and hp, so need to involve some non-toyota (sorry).

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------

b16 maybe faster at straight line..
but at circuit or cornering road,..
20v has advantage

Since some one here was said, HP for straight line; torque for cornering road & hill touge.
So you means 20V have more torque than B16?
But I think, Honda have much better suspension design than ours. How you think?

 

[muzhaffar]

Yeah~ Because all of big boss here are trying to show much clear view in torque and hp, so need to involve some non-toyota (sorry).

---------- Post added at 05:59 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:54 PM ----------




Since some one here was said, HP for straight line; torque for cornering road & hill touge.
So you means 20V have more torque than B16?
But I think, Honda have much better suspension design than ours. How you think?

yup
better suspension..
but how about in terms of reliability?
vtec open at high rpm..
20v vvt activate at 4k rpm..
for me, more advantage at cornering..
no need to take cornering at high rpm to maintain the power band..
just my opinion..
if wrong, dont shoot me..
and some more, dont rely on the factory output power..
it not really2 accurate..

the torque produce by the electric motor is the best
high stall torque
very fast 0-100 time..

 

[nurburing]

yes ofcoz, that is why i say b16a is powerful, but not the most powerful.....sr16vvl N1 is more powerful than b16a, but then if vs a 4age 20v on a hillclimb, maybe even sr16vvl N1 might lose to 4age....WHY ?

hehehe

 

[GasPedal]

Erkkk :hmmmm:
Why I use 4AGZE but with C56 gearbox + bigger crank pulley, I can always win B16A (near stock) and B16B (near stock) too? 1 thing I realize is when drag race between this 2, I found out in 1st 50-100m i can lead it easily; But once at 300-400m, I found B16 is closing up already.

---------- Post added at 12:21 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------



oo~ No wonder I feel more comfortable when uphill compare to B16 la...

U said u use bigger crank pully, is that suppose to spin the supercharger faster? This will increase boost, torque n horsepower, i dont think yr 4agze is near stock condition (just mod air filter n exhaust), thats why u always win.

My friend told me he saw wira with 2.0 4g63 dohc na play drag with ae101 with 1.6 4age 20v blktp with just airfilter n exhaust mod, they play 3 time, 20v win from 2nd gear onwards all 3 time.

Could somebody confirm this, or maybe the wira driver miss shift or something....

 

[muzhaffar]

i play with satria turbo before..
dont know what engine..
but can hear the bov sound..
at that time already 100++ km/h..
then he accelerating and i catch him from behind
drop to 4th gear and accelerate
manage to tailgate the car until 180 km/h and my speed cut does it job..
stock blacktop 6 speed...
even air cleaner stock..
with ae101 double muffler..

 

[lkeong88]

If not mistaken 4g63 NA no mivec, horsepower only around 140hp rite? Its just something like camry's engine ? 3sfe?

 

[GasPedal]

Another example of.....pulling power = torque x engine revolution ===> (hp = Tq x rpm)

U are cruising behind a car , say u are doing 60kmh at 4th gear n 2000rpm,
then u decide to overtake, if u simply floor the pedal without shiftdown,
the car pull slowly, since at that rpm it has low power (pwr= Tq x 2000).

But what if u shiftdown to 2nd n yr engine rpm jump to 4000rpm,
then u floor the pedal, of course u will feel much better pull,
since at that rpm it has almost twice power than at 2000rpm (pwr = Tq x 4000).

To simplify, i assume engine torque is same at all rpm, which is not in real life,
most single cam have max torque at low rpm, turbo at middle rpm, and dohc at high rpm,
i said most of them, not all.

The stronger pull u feel is not because u downshift,
it is actually because yr rpm is higher, means yr engine spin faster,
and make more power. Go start yr car n try it.

Some say high torque is important, it is extremely correct, since
high torque engine will have high power due to, pwr = big torque x rpm
but high rpm engine also will have high pulling power due to, pwr = torque x high rpm

Example: compare car A power (300Tq x 6000rpm) vs car B power (200Tq x 9000rpm),
both will have almost same pulling power.

Thats why on u-tube Best Motoring race video show
stock honda integra dc5 (2.0L n/a - low torque high rpm engine) can pull side by side
at straight line with stock nissan silvia (2.0L turbo - high torque low rpm engine).

Also on u-tube u can see drag race, b16b (1.6L n/a - low torque high rpm engine) pulls almost
side by side with 4g93t (1.8L turbo - high torque low rpm engine).

I'm just trying to explain.......
Both big torque n high rpm is important factor to have a big pulling power.

Tired already......need to sleep...........zzz

 

[muzhaffar]

but, when we shift down, we increase the torque by using different gear ratio right?
so, the torque on the tire will be higher let say the torque is idealistic(same throughout all rpm)
that's also can explain why we can accelerate faster besides higher hp..
so, the torque, hp and gear ratio is interelated with each that will affect the acceleration of the car..

 

[nurburing]

it has something to do with your gear ratio matching as well as how smooth your rpm can rev from low to high rpm....

 

[AE75]

After I watch this, now the ideal become clear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hhbGcTQKEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqkenoUi1ug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fU4f_NwAfUs

By actually it was interlink with 4 category. Torque, HP, weight, and gear ratio too

 

[hachiroku clan]

can we conclude that high revving engines that has a rather high 'sweet spot' needs a close ratio g/box?
from what i see, even the satria neo lotus uses a close ratio g/box due to 7000rpm sweet spot.