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riggy,
I can confirm that it is a typo. It is not 82mm as stated, but 81mm x 89mm, as with other stock 4G93Ps from Proton. The displacement still remains at 1834cc. Strange that some 1.8 SOHC ones are quoted 1797cc (just like my previous ride). I reckon it has to do with insurance/road tax structure in some foreign countries.
The SR3 got the extra horses from advanced cam timing and the free flow exhaust.
alexz,
I think an R3 SRM would look kick-ass, really. But a lot of R&D would go into tweaking the Campro (or has that already been done?). I'm sure the handling has already been sorted :) Would be interesting to see! I can't wait for the R3 Gen.2!
thinkthink
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2004
- Messages
- 1
- Points
- 3,001
hi guys,
I've heard a lot about ZTH forums and i've been browsing through it for the past 2 weeks or so reading useful first hand experiences and opinions about various cars and other autmotive related products. Although I'm always on autoworld but personally i think that having forums like this is very useful although sometimes time consuming and confusing as you cant resist yourself from reading all the postings with different OPINIONS.
Fellas, i dont usually comment as you can see this is my first post here on ZTH. However , after reading this thread i think i'll give a few fellas a pat on the back... you'll notice that i capitalize the word 'opinions' above. The reason for this is straightforward, forums like this are for people to express their opions and share experiences on what is being discussed...
In this 'new R3 forum' i cant help but to notice that some of it's members have different opinions on the R3. The guy (or maybe a lady) with the nick Riggy is probably the most outspoken here. He has valid points, good opinions, and from what i've read, valuable experiences gained probably from years of owning various cars and also a few protons. We should all value this, and NOT call him names like 'Proton basher' or 'Proton Critic' or 'bit**ing'. What he has said are valid points, what he has recommended are probably justified too.
As for the R3, personally i think that it's a sweet satria. I marks a new step for the Race Rally Research team that we have always wondered what do they actually do. The car is prove that the Proton realises that the average bloke in Malaysia loves cars that look good and goes as well as it looks.
I wont comment much about the car as riggy,adian, shaunchen and others have covered more than enough. But i would say this.. perhaps R3 could have done better (with the limited budget that they had).. a bit more Research on parts and less time Racing or Rallying could do some good here. The Recaros are nice, but really, is it worth spending 40% of the budget? Maybe bucketted leather seats with lumbar support adjustment would be a chaper and better alternative here. It would also add more character and identity if they could emboss the R3 logo there.
As for the other parts of the car, i'll choose not to comment as most of you have already covered them.
So coming back to my post... i pat all of you on the back and say 'enough with the personal and emotional remarks'! Here, i have to point out that some R3 people except for Adian are seriously lacking. Come on guys, we know it's all your hard work, cant you take a few good criticisms? People complain about BMWs and other europeans marques all the time but the manufacturers never go and attack the customers. Dont reply by saying something like this:
""Adian and Faisal (the other motorsports guy) has been very accommodating towards your queries, preserving professionalism whilst being informative. However, I have doubts on their actions to argue on your points that have no ends.""
or this
""That is why your points are laughable. Turns out, its not as ABC as you put it. “Why no more goodie parts???” U go figure…turn every rock and u still won’t be satisfied. U have much to learn young grasshopper ""
The people here are your customers or customers to-be.... somethings they say may be either right/wrong, but certainly NOT 'laughable' as you put it... now who is the one who should be learning?
Riggy, i say to you good job on your comments... Adian, i say well done on your responses.. lets keep it this way.
;)
I've heard a lot about ZTH forums and i've been browsing through it for the past 2 weeks or so reading useful first hand experiences and opinions about various cars and other autmotive related products. Although I'm always on autoworld but personally i think that having forums like this is very useful although sometimes time consuming and confusing as you cant resist yourself from reading all the postings with different OPINIONS.
Fellas, i dont usually comment as you can see this is my first post here on ZTH. However , after reading this thread i think i'll give a few fellas a pat on the back... you'll notice that i capitalize the word 'opinions' above. The reason for this is straightforward, forums like this are for people to express their opions and share experiences on what is being discussed...
In this 'new R3 forum' i cant help but to notice that some of it's members have different opinions on the R3. The guy (or maybe a lady) with the nick Riggy is probably the most outspoken here. He has valid points, good opinions, and from what i've read, valuable experiences gained probably from years of owning various cars and also a few protons. We should all value this, and NOT call him names like 'Proton basher' or 'Proton Critic' or 'bit**ing'. What he has said are valid points, what he has recommended are probably justified too.
As for the R3, personally i think that it's a sweet satria. I marks a new step for the Race Rally Research team that we have always wondered what do they actually do. The car is prove that the Proton realises that the average bloke in Malaysia loves cars that look good and goes as well as it looks.
I wont comment much about the car as riggy,adian, shaunchen and others have covered more than enough. But i would say this.. perhaps R3 could have done better (with the limited budget that they had).. a bit more Research on parts and less time Racing or Rallying could do some good here. The Recaros are nice, but really, is it worth spending 40% of the budget? Maybe bucketted leather seats with lumbar support adjustment would be a chaper and better alternative here. It would also add more character and identity if they could emboss the R3 logo there.
As for the other parts of the car, i'll choose not to comment as most of you have already covered them.
So coming back to my post... i pat all of you on the back and say 'enough with the personal and emotional remarks'! Here, i have to point out that some R3 people except for Adian are seriously lacking. Come on guys, we know it's all your hard work, cant you take a few good criticisms? People complain about BMWs and other europeans marques all the time but the manufacturers never go and attack the customers. Dont reply by saying something like this:
""Adian and Faisal (the other motorsports guy) has been very accommodating towards your queries, preserving professionalism whilst being informative. However, I have doubts on their actions to argue on your points that have no ends.""
or this
""That is why your points are laughable. Turns out, its not as ABC as you put it. “Why no more goodie parts???” U go figure…turn every rock and u still won’t be satisfied. U have much to learn young grasshopper ""
The people here are your customers or customers to-be.... somethings they say may be either right/wrong, but certainly NOT 'laughable' as you put it... now who is the one who should be learning?
Riggy, i say to you good job on your comments... Adian, i say well done on your responses.. lets keep it this way.
;)
thinkthink: thank you for the comments. Unfortunately (to some of you that is) i am a guy. But if i wore skirts, i'll have incredibly sexy hairy legs for all to see (and to throw up to).
To add to the comments made, about professionalism, a good manufacture response would be as follows:
'we have heard your comments and think that you may have some valid points on most of the issues, we will bring this up in our meetings and then see if we can imcorporate what you all have suggested into our next 'special edition'. However, as you are aware of, the r3 is the first (and not the last) of a series of very special protons that we, the ppl at racerallyresearch shall launch in the next few years. We thank you for your comments and hope hear comments from you soon.'
That was what should ahve been said very much earlier on...instead of 7 pages down the road. This is speaking from example, i corresponde a lot with various high end manufacturers and services from around the world,eg. omega, lgirard perragaux,louis vuitton, a few 5 star hotels . They hold their product in high self esteem. Which is what proton is striving to achieve.
But enuff on this. Carry on with this fine forum...... chin up r3 guys..chest out...stand proud.
crash: a typo....looks like the marketing team needs a proof reader.
regards.
To add to the comments made, about professionalism, a good manufacture response would be as follows:
'we have heard your comments and think that you may have some valid points on most of the issues, we will bring this up in our meetings and then see if we can imcorporate what you all have suggested into our next 'special edition'. However, as you are aware of, the r3 is the first (and not the last) of a series of very special protons that we, the ppl at racerallyresearch shall launch in the next few years. We thank you for your comments and hope hear comments from you soon.'
That was what should ahve been said very much earlier on...instead of 7 pages down the road. This is speaking from example, i corresponde a lot with various high end manufacturers and services from around the world,eg. omega, lgirard perragaux,louis vuitton, a few 5 star hotels . They hold their product in high self esteem. Which is what proton is striving to achieve.
But enuff on this. Carry on with this fine forum...... chin up r3 guys..chest out...stand proud.
crash: a typo....looks like the marketing team needs a proof reader.
regards.
thinkthink,
Welcome to the forum. Like you, I enjoy reading the posts because there is a lot of good stuff in this topic. A lot of information, a lot of good, solid content. You hear the good, bad, the ugly. But let's not get personal. We can debate till our hearts content, but let's keep it friendly. The motorsports paternity is small - everyone knows everyone.
In general, I think SR3 buyers who have received their cars (me included), are ultimately enjoying their cars. This IS a good sign that the SR3, to the very least, has lived up to expectations. Kudos to the R3 team for stepping out of the box. More work to be done, but the first step is always the greatest step :)
To hell with talking! Me want to go driving! 400kms and counting!
Welcome to the forum. Like you, I enjoy reading the posts because there is a lot of good stuff in this topic. A lot of information, a lot of good, solid content. You hear the good, bad, the ugly. But let's not get personal. We can debate till our hearts content, but let's keep it friendly. The motorsports paternity is small - everyone knows everyone.
In general, I think SR3 buyers who have received their cars (me included), are ultimately enjoying their cars. This IS a good sign that the SR3, to the very least, has lived up to expectations. Kudos to the R3 team for stepping out of the box. More work to be done, but the first step is always the greatest step :)
To hell with talking! Me want to go driving! 400kms and counting!
firstly i just browse to this topic... n find everyone have he/she point of view...
guys we all should happy tat proton come out a special... limited .... tuned... satria for the public... after so many years producing the national car for us...
anyway try to ask perodua to do so... on a kenari.. kelisa ala move or gino... even a kembara ct elangance only add in sometg or fabricate the entire kembara to make it looks differents.... i also wish tat kembara can have a turbocharged or terios bodykit lahhhh... but end up perodua only able to give wat they think is good for the marketing...
btw the manufacturer can't always pls anyone ... so as a buyer ... y so mind wat tat the OEM (original equipment manufactured) car does not suit wat u need or hunger??? if u wan a car that is suit or customize on ur hunger u can throw a bunch of $$$ to the manufacturer to produce or customize a R3 tat suit u? y think off the aftermarket parts tat u also will spend on someday?
i belief some of the R3 owner out there someday will get their ass itchy to upgrade the original car...
tats mine point of view n sorry if i offense any1 feeling here....
guys we all should happy tat proton come out a special... limited .... tuned... satria for the public... after so many years producing the national car for us...
anyway try to ask perodua to do so... on a kenari.. kelisa ala move or gino... even a kembara ct elangance only add in sometg or fabricate the entire kembara to make it looks differents.... i also wish tat kembara can have a turbocharged or terios bodykit lahhhh... but end up perodua only able to give wat they think is good for the marketing...
btw the manufacturer can't always pls anyone ... so as a buyer ... y so mind wat tat the OEM (original equipment manufactured) car does not suit wat u need or hunger??? if u wan a car that is suit or customize on ur hunger u can throw a bunch of $$$ to the manufacturer to produce or customize a R3 tat suit u? y think off the aftermarket parts tat u also will spend on someday?
i belief some of the R3 owner out there someday will get their ass itchy to upgrade the original car...
tats mine point of view n sorry if i offense any1 feeling here....
shaun,
Technically speaking you can over-bore the block to around 1880cc. This is about the max the 4G93 block can take reliably. This can be done and has been done, as demonstrated on the SSO Satria + Putra, as well as some performance Protons available locally. For example, YS Khong's Putra has also been over-bored.
The most reliable turbocharger would be the exact same bits that came from Mitsi's 4G93T although the internals of the 4G93P (pistons, conrods, etc...) should be upgraded to ensure the reliability of the block in the long run. The 4G93 has been known to crack under high boost.
Can the original SR3 ever be kept standard? Hmm...easy question really. Can ANY car/mod enthusiast resist modifying their rides? I think not! Personally, I would be optimising performance of the SR3 more than anything else (a CF bonnet being the only cosmetic exception). I would think that R3 would want you to upgrade to Stage 2, Stage 3 and so forth when those upgrades are made available. I for one would definitely be looking at a Stage 2 engine + suspension upgrade when the time comes.
My planned mods, which should come soon, would be the installation of a Pivot Volt Stabilizer + Grounding Kit, which I bought a couple of months ago, initially for my Persona, but kept it aside after I booked the SR3. Next would be a PiperCross drop-in + CAI kit. A Goodridge steel-braided hose upgrade would follow. And as soon as R3 makes available their PU bushing upgrade, I would install those as well.
What are YOUR planned mods?
About the grounding kit and volt stabiliser that I plan to install - I am not looking to gain any hp from the installation, just a step to stabilise the current. It is proven to work, and some even report slight gain in power.
I would rate things like air compressors/injectors + sway bars as 'decorative' items as mentioned by you. 'Real' mods like cam upgrade, ported heads, polished exhaust headers give substantial gains to your vehicle. Better to save up for these than spend a little whilst expecting 'miracle' gains.
:)
Oh, I'd advise you to keep your airbox instead of replacing it with an open-pod filter. May look good, but mostly sucks in hot air which is detrimental to performance, even with a heat shield. Better to get a high-flow drop in filter with a cold air intake. Proven results, mate.
Your thought-about-mods would alter the SR3 looks forever! Personally, I think the SR3 looks great as it is. I would do minimal cosmetic mods really.
Yokohama windscreen stickers? Instant 15hp gain!
Guys,
Promote and gull wings are rice.. Concentrate on the chassis and handling.. The first thing you should be getting are Goodridge braided brake hoses and maybe even a brake cylinder stopper. This will improve the already good braking up a notch..
Promote and gull wings are rice.. Concentrate on the chassis and handling.. The first thing you should be getting are Goodridge braided brake hoses and maybe even a brake cylinder stopper. This will improve the already good braking up a notch..
Shaun,
You referring to this mirrors? :lol:
http://groups.msn.com/TeamMatrixMotorsport...499609288348818
You referring to this mirrors? :lol:
http://groups.msn.com/TeamMatrixMotorsport...499609288348818
wow..you guys can really bitch about stuff eh. i skipped a lot of posts cause you were repeating yourselves.
anyway..for riggy,
you may or may not realise that budget is one thing, availability is another, and feasibilty is something else altogether. if you think hard enough you will realise that certain things just arent feasible. if you work in a corporate environment with high pressure and margins and results, you may know what the issues are.
taiwanese after market calipers? you do realise that OEM parts have undergone tremendous R&D in the first place. the whole reason these parts are cheaper is because they are produce in very high volumes. do you really think the taiwanese brakes are better? i am astounded. and going up in size will unsettled the brake balance.
CF or Aluminum bonnets? wow. to make a proper CF bonnet (full CF twill) to spec(within tolerance in strength and size) in high volumes (with a proper mould) with 'A' grade finishing (smooth epoxy or paint) is just abt too prohibitive. you do realize that the R3 satria's price is not too far away from its GTi sibling?
as for parts, proton is giving ppl a taste of what you can get in a fair value purchase. keeping equipment levels up to spec is the owner's prerogative. if you calculate the parts and development cost and extras just off hand you may realise that you guys are getting bargain. try buying those things separately NEW. with warranty. with engineering development. with the assurance that everything compliments everything else.
of course you can improve on the R3 satria. many things you can do. but would you buy satria if it costs RM180,000.++ including duty and tax?
and no...i dont work for proton.
anyway..for riggy,
you may or may not realise that budget is one thing, availability is another, and feasibilty is something else altogether. if you think hard enough you will realise that certain things just arent feasible. if you work in a corporate environment with high pressure and margins and results, you may know what the issues are.
taiwanese after market calipers? you do realise that OEM parts have undergone tremendous R&D in the first place. the whole reason these parts are cheaper is because they are produce in very high volumes. do you really think the taiwanese brakes are better? i am astounded. and going up in size will unsettled the brake balance.
CF or Aluminum bonnets? wow. to make a proper CF bonnet (full CF twill) to spec(within tolerance in strength and size) in high volumes (with a proper mould) with 'A' grade finishing (smooth epoxy or paint) is just abt too prohibitive. you do realize that the R3 satria's price is not too far away from its GTi sibling?
as for parts, proton is giving ppl a taste of what you can get in a fair value purchase. keeping equipment levels up to spec is the owner's prerogative. if you calculate the parts and development cost and extras just off hand you may realise that you guys are getting bargain. try buying those things separately NEW. with warranty. with engineering development. with the assurance that everything compliments everything else.
of course you can improve on the R3 satria. many things you can do. but would you buy satria if it costs RM180,000.++ including duty and tax?
and no...i dont work for proton.
ahh..cost and prohibitiveness...as with any company, boy racer, tuning company..all has to work around abudget. Suggested aluminium as a replacement to CF...why keep going back to the prohibitive cost of CF? give ur opinion on the aluminium alternative. maybe you've been skipping to many of the posts. :D
Yes yes i am fully aware of OE requirements......i only state what can be done..safely..if not i wouldnt recommend it in the first place. Taiwan or not, you can make the brakes have all the feel you require...if you are aware, the parts bin for most mitsu based cars is endless, try playing with the master pump with OE mitsu parts (those available and used by proton) to get feel supposedly lost thru such a conversion.
shaunchen: the volt stabilizer works...in that you'd notice two things...like you put your 'loudness' button on your car stereo and that your lights are brighter. As for power, you're not actually gaining anything, but making sure that your whole electrical system runs properly, hence that ensures less strain on the system, less strain on the charging system, hence less strain on the engine. Therefore, your engine is running at its optimum, and feels more powerful. Its actually enabling what your engine should get..itstead of what it loses. Somewhat like a properly done heat shield, or a exhaust wrap...it optimises the air going in and the surrounding air temp respectively, enabling the engine to work as it should.
i agree with llsaw, the GOODRIDGE braided hoses are an important upgrade. In fact NEXT car officially buys these and fixes these hoses to all of the ferraris that they service. Cant go wrong there if you put em on your proton.
regards
Yes yes i am fully aware of OE requirements......i only state what can be done..safely..if not i wouldnt recommend it in the first place. Taiwan or not, you can make the brakes have all the feel you require...if you are aware, the parts bin for most mitsu based cars is endless, try playing with the master pump with OE mitsu parts (those available and used by proton) to get feel supposedly lost thru such a conversion.
shaunchen: the volt stabilizer works...in that you'd notice two things...like you put your 'loudness' button on your car stereo and that your lights are brighter. As for power, you're not actually gaining anything, but making sure that your whole electrical system runs properly, hence that ensures less strain on the system, less strain on the charging system, hence less strain on the engine. Therefore, your engine is running at its optimum, and feels more powerful. Its actually enabling what your engine should get..itstead of what it loses. Somewhat like a properly done heat shield, or a exhaust wrap...it optimises the air going in and the surrounding air temp respectively, enabling the engine to work as it should.
i agree with llsaw, the GOODRIDGE braided hoses are an important upgrade. In fact NEXT car officially buys these and fixes these hoses to all of the ferraris that they service. Cant go wrong there if you put em on your proton.
regards
Mitsubishi basically has 4 master cylinder sizes today which they effectively use for most of their models :
13/16" - 1.3/1.5
15/16" - 1.6/1.8 with rear disk brake
1" - EVO1-4 and other twin-pots
17/16" - EVO5-8 (with Brembo setup)
There are also variations in master cylinder setup for ABS and non-ABS.
However all this is useless if you do not have full access to the Mitsu spare parts bin as AD has stated. Also bear in mind that the twin pot caliper is very very heavy and this would negate the advantages of going to a lighter rim with less unsprung mass..
The basic single caliper 54mm setup and 15/16" master cylinder is already very very effective. Put that with a fast road pad such as Pagid RS2-4, Endless CC-M or the chosen Mintex M1144 series and you have a setup which very little else can beat cept for maybe a 4-pot caliper. Front brake bias is also of the most utmost importance here as Kenboy has stated. There are many cars out there with 6 pot monster brake kits but actually end up stopping in a longer distance than stock setups. The key here is brake balance and the threshold is usually only about 15-20 percent more stopping power before you start to lose the balance.. IMHO Proton Motorsport has done an outstanding job here given the availability of budget and this will take some beating.
Recently in Sport Compact Car, the Sparco EVO with monster 6-pot WRC calipers + titanium pistons actually ended up stopping in a longer distance than the RRE EVO with a more basic setup. Brake design and balance is not easy and usually takes up a lot of tim and budget something which a run of just 150 cars does not simply justify. My 2 cents here..
13/16" - 1.3/1.5
15/16" - 1.6/1.8 with rear disk brake
1" - EVO1-4 and other twin-pots
17/16" - EVO5-8 (with Brembo setup)
There are also variations in master cylinder setup for ABS and non-ABS.
However all this is useless if you do not have full access to the Mitsu spare parts bin as AD has stated. Also bear in mind that the twin pot caliper is very very heavy and this would negate the advantages of going to a lighter rim with less unsprung mass..
The basic single caliper 54mm setup and 15/16" master cylinder is already very very effective. Put that with a fast road pad such as Pagid RS2-4, Endless CC-M or the chosen Mintex M1144 series and you have a setup which very little else can beat cept for maybe a 4-pot caliper. Front brake bias is also of the most utmost importance here as Kenboy has stated. There are many cars out there with 6 pot monster brake kits but actually end up stopping in a longer distance than stock setups. The key here is brake balance and the threshold is usually only about 15-20 percent more stopping power before you start to lose the balance.. IMHO Proton Motorsport has done an outstanding job here given the availability of budget and this will take some beating.
Recently in Sport Compact Car, the Sparco EVO with monster 6-pot WRC calipers + titanium pistons actually ended up stopping in a longer distance than the RRE EVO with a more basic setup. Brake design and balance is not easy and usually takes up a lot of tim and budget something which a run of just 150 cars does not simply justify. My 2 cents here..
Bear in mind that mods such as exhaust wraps will prolong the heat soak of a exhaust header which will ultimately increase the chance of stress failures from the heat. It would be better to coat the manifold/header with a ceramic or equivalent coating but again this is at additional cost..
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