Need advise..! Will downshifting without revving up the RPM spoil any part of my car?
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u mean heel-toe braking arr??.... yeah, must practice alot to get the right rpm to release the clutch pedal..... if not ur car will jerk....
easy and simple solution
BRAKE la dey hahaha.....brake until the suitable speed for Gear3 only engage Gear3
BRAKE la dey hahaha.....brake until the suitable speed for Gear3 only engage Gear3
"like 5th gear to 3rd gear" .. are u crazy skipping a gear downshifting from 5 to 3? ... u are damaging ure gearbox. Its not advisable to skip a gearing position to downshift or upshift. Most commonly, skipping a gearing position when upshifting wont affect anything, just a bit vibrate on engine bay when u floor back the throttle.
Downshifting without revving engine is normal and wont affect anything, make sure u dont skip gears when downshifting. Shift down from 5 to 4 and not 5 to 3!.
You shouldn't use the engine to brake aggressively for at least two reasons:
1. You can lock the rear and skid --> control challenges,
2. Transmissions are much more expensive to replace than brakepads.
Why do we want to learn to heel toe downshift?
Quick answer - smoothness, stability, stay in gear.
You've all let the clutch out in 2nd at too high of speed right? Jerks the car forward, whine of syncros = not smooth. You can power through a corner faster then you can coast through it plus you have WAY more stability.
Impress your friends - looks cool as hell
Example: Ever tried to make a fast power maneuver after braking?? Clutch & brake is in - who knows what gear your in. Suddenly a shopping cart is coming right for your car. You need to make a quick transition from braking to getting out of the way of the cart! If you learned the "two feet in" while braking (like myself) you will have a hard time finding a gear in 1/2 a second. Grind - clutch out - maybe make it in time with some bucking? With heel toe - you are always in gear. but for a brief half second while shifting. This has made a noticeable difference for me driving a manual in traffic, and has saved my ass once or twice.
Revmatching. or Throttle blip.
The fundamentals behind a successful heel toe downshift begin with KNOWING how high to rev the car before down shifting.
1. You are in 3rd gear at 3000RPM's you want to shift into 2nd. How high do you need to bring the revs up to make a smooth transition into 2nd?
OR - I'll ask it another way to clarify.
2. You are in 3rd gear at 3000RPM's you clutch in, shift to 2nd, and let out the clutch. The whine of the transmission is heard. How high will the revs go?
The answer to questions 1 and 2 are the same. 4200RPM's Give or take a little - based on transmission.
Downshifting without revving engine is normal and wont affect anything, make sure u dont skip gears when downshifting. Shift down from 5 to 4 and not 5 to 3!.
You shouldn't use the engine to brake aggressively for at least two reasons:
1. You can lock the rear and skid --> control challenges,
2. Transmissions are much more expensive to replace than brakepads.
Why do we want to learn to heel toe downshift?
Quick answer - smoothness, stability, stay in gear.
You've all let the clutch out in 2nd at too high of speed right? Jerks the car forward, whine of syncros = not smooth. You can power through a corner faster then you can coast through it plus you have WAY more stability.
Impress your friends - looks cool as hell
Example: Ever tried to make a fast power maneuver after braking?? Clutch & brake is in - who knows what gear your in. Suddenly a shopping cart is coming right for your car. You need to make a quick transition from braking to getting out of the way of the cart! If you learned the "two feet in" while braking (like myself) you will have a hard time finding a gear in 1/2 a second. Grind - clutch out - maybe make it in time with some bucking? With heel toe - you are always in gear. but for a brief half second while shifting. This has made a noticeable difference for me driving a manual in traffic, and has saved my ass once or twice.
Revmatching. or Throttle blip.
The fundamentals behind a successful heel toe downshift begin with KNOWING how high to rev the car before down shifting.
1. You are in 3rd gear at 3000RPM's you want to shift into 2nd. How high do you need to bring the revs up to make a smooth transition into 2nd?
OR - I'll ask it another way to clarify.
2. You are in 3rd gear at 3000RPM's you clutch in, shift to 2nd, and let out the clutch. The whine of the transmission is heard. How high will the revs go?
The answer to questions 1 and 2 are the same. 4200RPM's Give or take a little - based on transmission.
Blipping throttle in normal driving condition is not a must! .. do auto transmissions blips everytime it upshift and downshift? .. :)
Its just an art of driving ...
Good luck!
Its just an art of driving ...
Good luck!
sakuraguy , thanks for the long reply!! interesting to read .... but bro, MAYBE u got me wrong, or i explained it wrong .... my downshifting actually isnt to brake (or maybe its not called downshifting?) ... i actually wanna speed up to overtake, if i downshift from 5th -> 4th gear i'll loose some power already right? it'll be laggy ... So at higher RPM on 3rd gear to pick up is better right...?
So thats why i wanna know what is that sound i'm hearing, n whether "downshifting" n picking up WITHOUT blipping the throttle is a bad thing, n thus, creating that "eek" sound ..
I think u are trying to explain it to me here already... am i right?
So thats why i wanna know what is that sound i'm hearing, n whether "downshifting" n picking up WITHOUT blipping the throttle is a bad thing, n thus, creating that "eek" sound ..
I think u are trying to explain it to me here already... am i right?
So it is very very advisable to "blip the throttle" to a suitable rev before "downshifting" , right? To prolong clutch and syncro life, like rollakid said..?
In the first place, why do you want to downshift from 5th to 3rd gear?
I'm no track driver but I belive in track driving, decelerating before an apex requires smooth transition of vehicle speed deceleration.
If you decelerate abruptly, you will upset the car's balance and lose tyre grip or spin out.
downshifting at hi speed is engine braking (you slow your car down either with your wheel brakes or engine brake, thats the reason why we are taught to use low gear during downhill). Engine braking puts alot of stress on the drivetrain.
Your syncro die faster, your timing belt risk snapping (if its in pooor condition) and you fry your clutch.
I'm no track driver but I belive in track driving, decelerating before an apex requires smooth transition of vehicle speed deceleration.
If you decelerate abruptly, you will upset the car's balance and lose tyre grip or spin out.
downshifting at hi speed is engine braking (you slow your car down either with your wheel brakes or engine brake, thats the reason why we are taught to use low gear during downhill). Engine braking puts alot of stress on the drivetrain.
Your syncro die faster, your timing belt risk snapping (if its in pooor condition) and you fry your clutch.
Serious shit............ Damn weih. Then i better stop doing that la ....
But then if i'm not supposed to go from 5th gear to 3rd gear for picking up speed, please advise what other method/way should i use?
Takkan i shift down to 4th gear n full throttle ? It still won't beat another car who goes to a lower gear with a higher rev to full throttle ... Right? Or am i wrong..? Sigh.. Confusing.
How ar? Any other ways for picking up faster during high speeds? Thanks for the advise experienced ones..
But then if i'm not supposed to go from 5th gear to 3rd gear for picking up speed, please advise what other method/way should i use?
Takkan i shift down to 4th gear n full throttle ? It still won't beat another car who goes to a lower gear with a higher rev to full throttle ... Right? Or am i wrong..? Sigh.. Confusing.
How ar? Any other ways for picking up faster during high speeds? Thanks for the advise experienced ones..
bro nitrus how come your 'down shifting problem' got problem 1?
me also over-taking by just shift to Gear3 from Gear4 or Gear5 or even Free gear (down hill)........nothing happen like grinding cluth place or what wo no sound eh.
when engage Gear3 that time release clucth pedal got a bit PULLING EFFECT la but rev faster once release clucth pedal....should be ok....no PULLING effect.
sometimes really tulan.....1 lane front car answering Hand Phone......behind all line up like convoying lol......then shift Gear3 terus potong
me also over-taking by just shift to Gear3 from Gear4 or Gear5 or even Free gear (down hill)........nothing happen like grinding cluth place or what wo no sound eh.
when engage Gear3 that time release clucth pedal got a bit PULLING EFFECT la but rev faster once release clucth pedal....should be ok....no PULLING effect.
sometimes really tulan.....1 lane front car answering Hand Phone......behind all line up like convoying lol......then shift Gear3 terus potong
may i know how did u release ur clutch pedal? the slowly nicely kind, or terus let go clutch ?gohkokeng said:
coz i terus let go clutch n accelerate kind ... maybe thats why... think it is bad. haih, habit ady now i always dump the clutch wan trying to shift faster...
engage gear3 straight completely release clutch pedal at once and press gas pedal liao......
just like done everything in 1 second (step clutch, shift gear3, completely release clutch pedal and floor gas pedal)
if u slowly release the clutch pedal, kan the pulling effect pull all your speed down?
just like done everything in 1 second (step clutch, shift gear3, completely release clutch pedal and floor gas pedal)
if u slowly release the clutch pedal, kan the pulling effect pull all your speed down?
At first i was stucked and often "crack" my gearbox .. but often practice during driving makes "blipping" throttle with right heel toe and left-foot braking makes me easy .. now .. my daily drive is this method :)
So blipping the throttle before downshifting is a better way as to not spoil/damage any parts...?
Better make it a habit then .. .hehehee..
Better make it a habit then .. .hehehee..
Yups ..drive gears enters while the shaft is still spinning, this reduces "geseran" i dunno wat they call in english .. ... :) and the driving way is styling too
Wat you guys doin is rev mathing the gear.
5th gears are overdrive gear with about 1 : 0.9++ ratio.
3rd gear is usually in most case direct drive ( about 1 : 1++ ratio)
When you downshift from 5th to 3rd, the sudden gear reduction stresses the 3rd gear syncro.
Proton 3rd gears failure are quite common when abused.
WHen it fails, you won't be able to shift into 3rd gear or it automatically pops out of gear into neutral.
Drive sensibly.
The reason for the "crunch" during shifting from 5th to 3rd is due to gear reduction (the speed of the 5th gear's syncro unable match that of 3rd)
Gear reduction is what gives an engine its torque.
It is not as you mention "shaft still spinning or not".
5th gears are overdrive gear with about 1 : 0.9++ ratio.
3rd gear is usually in most case direct drive ( about 1 : 1++ ratio)
When you downshift from 5th to 3rd, the sudden gear reduction stresses the 3rd gear syncro.
Proton 3rd gears failure are quite common when abused.
WHen it fails, you won't be able to shift into 3rd gear or it automatically pops out of gear into neutral.
Drive sensibly.
If you are refering to Proton/Mitsubishi tranaxles, both drive and driven gears on the drive and iddling shaft are spinning continously regardless it is neutral or in gear.Sakuraguy said:
The reason for the "crunch" during shifting from 5th to 3rd is due to gear reduction (the speed of the 5th gear's syncro unable match that of 3rd)
Gear reduction is what gives an engine its torque.
It is not as you mention "shaft still spinning or not".
sakuraguy, thanks for the suggestion dude.. :regular_smile:
Joeker, very interesting read dude... :top:
So what u're trying to say (differing from sakuraguy's suggestion), no matter if i blip the throttle to rev higher when i shift to lower gear for pick up, it'll still screw the synchro/gear up ?
So if that's so, do u have any suggestion for how i can "not spoil" the parts, while still being able to pick-up quickly at high speeds?
Joeker, very interesting read dude... :top:
So what u're trying to say (differing from sakuraguy's suggestion), no matter if i blip the throttle to rev higher when i shift to lower gear for pick up, it'll still screw the synchro/gear up ?
So if that's so, do u have any suggestion for how i can "not spoil" the parts, while still being able to pick-up quickly at high speeds?
hey erm bout this downshifting thingy,i have a few comments.
at high speeds downshifting to a lower gear to get pickup requires practice and skill.u dun hafta shift it hastily and all to get into gear.as long as u can go pass the damn lori or another car its ok.
anyway downshifting while throttling up is a good skill indeed.its practised by many racers,especially drifters. this skill is important,especially when braking and dealing with corners,as the shifting of gears if not done properly will effect the weight distribution of the car.for drifters,it can either make the car stable into a corner or jus oversteer the car.it is a really important skill indeed,and requires a lot of practise doing it.downshifting while stopping down hard as u guys mentioned would make the skid and lose control.and also kill the gearbox and drivetrain.but then u can minimise the problem by getting into gear at the right rev.over rev will make ur car jump forward,will kill the gearbox,and under rev will do the same too,but worse effect to the car la.the car will somewhat jump backwards,and lose all power and momentum to go forward.
i had problems with my volvo clutchplate coz i let go of the clutch so fast everytime i go into a gear,and at the wrong rev.it kinda wear off hehe.so hafta pay rm1.5k for ori one.anyway,the cluthc plate will wear off firstly when it comes to problems like this,and you will have problems getting it into gear,and when it comes into gear,it kicks back to neutral.very damn dangerous.
anyway jus for extras bout the throttling into the right rev when goin into a gear really helps the car to stabilise.ive done doing some speedy action downhill cameron highlands with a trueno 92,it was okla,it was fun,and the method helps a lot.there was no unwanted wheel lock during braking and more traction required,so faster speed through corners lah. :( but then my car cant go very fast man...body turn like shit and tyre use wrong type huhu.suspensions also suited for old makcik going to the pasar....nuff bout it!
other than doing this method when picking up speed is to go to fourth gear la.but then go and overtake the car and change to gear 5 back again,right befre the cutoff point.as after the cutoff point,changing it into another gear will eventually lose all the momentum and also power.big nono.so study the peak torque of your car engine and applicate it la.
so bro,up to your judgement to do this method or not,and yea,one thing for sure,take care of the car and take care of urself.
at high speeds downshifting to a lower gear to get pickup requires practice and skill.u dun hafta shift it hastily and all to get into gear.as long as u can go pass the damn lori or another car its ok.
anyway downshifting while throttling up is a good skill indeed.its practised by many racers,especially drifters. this skill is important,especially when braking and dealing with corners,as the shifting of gears if not done properly will effect the weight distribution of the car.for drifters,it can either make the car stable into a corner or jus oversteer the car.it is a really important skill indeed,and requires a lot of practise doing it.downshifting while stopping down hard as u guys mentioned would make the skid and lose control.and also kill the gearbox and drivetrain.but then u can minimise the problem by getting into gear at the right rev.over rev will make ur car jump forward,will kill the gearbox,and under rev will do the same too,but worse effect to the car la.the car will somewhat jump backwards,and lose all power and momentum to go forward.
i had problems with my volvo clutchplate coz i let go of the clutch so fast everytime i go into a gear,and at the wrong rev.it kinda wear off hehe.so hafta pay rm1.5k for ori one.anyway,the cluthc plate will wear off firstly when it comes to problems like this,and you will have problems getting it into gear,and when it comes into gear,it kicks back to neutral.very damn dangerous.
anyway jus for extras bout the throttling into the right rev when goin into a gear really helps the car to stabilise.ive done doing some speedy action downhill cameron highlands with a trueno 92,it was okla,it was fun,and the method helps a lot.there was no unwanted wheel lock during braking and more traction required,so faster speed through corners lah. :( but then my car cant go very fast man...body turn like shit and tyre use wrong type huhu.suspensions also suited for old makcik going to the pasar....nuff bout it!
other than doing this method when picking up speed is to go to fourth gear la.but then go and overtake the car and change to gear 5 back again,right befre the cutoff point.as after the cutoff point,changing it into another gear will eventually lose all the momentum and also power.big nono.so study the peak torque of your car engine and applicate it la.
so bro,up to your judgement to do this method or not,and yea,one thing for sure,take care of the car and take care of urself.
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