Lsd....

Heheh...no lah, research for future B20B upgrades, like cranks and rods. Pistons of course OEM, I don't like forged pistons, sounds rattly at cold idle, and summore hafta wait for a good min 3 mins bfr can drive! Who can do the job, tell la!

hattech-v said:
ace, no need to do research anymore... send to me ur block... i know who can do the oil squitter for u...
 
Ok, for my B20B plans, I don't want to bore up the block, standard piston size will do.

Future upgrades ( if I do go for the B20B conversion ) is a block brace + baffled oil sump, then piston rods. So, a safe bet is to go for longer piston rods ( i,.e longer than OEM B20B ), that is, after fitment of a block brace?

shiroitenshi said:
The oil squirters I think you can observe the paths from a B16A block. Tooling wise.. I'm not sure it's DIY-able. Lucky you and your old man in interested in engines.. my old man only knows that a car runs on four wheels.. ROFL!

Oil squirters must also be angled to clear the B20 crank, and doesn't allow big bore sizes. I forgot the maximum bore with oil squirts installed, but I think it's 84mm or less. not sure, so don't trust me on that.

One reason that the B20B sleeves fails is not entirely due to lubrication in my opinion.. rather because

1) the sleeves are thin (esp when you run 86mm pistons or higher)
2) the piston speed is very very fast.

For example, let's look at the rod stroke ratio. For B20B, the crank stroke is 89mm. The speed of the piston is determined by [((rpm*2) * stroke)/1000] = avg. piston speed in metres per minute.

So at 8K, ((8000*2)*89mm) /1000 = 1424 meters per minutes . Divide by 60, you get 23.73m/s as the average speed.. I say average because the acceleration is influenced by the rod length, and this is where the vibration part comes in. It'll be clearer once you draw the diagram of piston and rods, and read the later part about rod length. The type R block pushes the piston at 1395metres per minute or 23.25m/s at 8K.. it doesn't seem much, but that minor differences will make a BIG difference when you push up the timescale, and that's where the problem lies with a B20B setup, where the sleeves are thinner (and more prone to vibration), and the rod angle is much more harsher (more on this later) and by this reason alone, it doesn't seem like a good idea to hit the same average speed as a B18CR. Notice the formula uses crank stroke, and which is why I implied (in my PM) a different shorter crank should allow for a less aggresive angle, and a lower avg. piston speed, and depending on the length of the rods you use, a more softer acceleration curve for the piston (which should lessen the vibration problem)

Now onto rod length.
The rods length determine the final position of the piston at TDC.. longer rods, and you'll find your piston popping out the top of the block, and doesn't reach down the usual location at BDC. A way to get around this is custom pistons with different wrist pin locations.. some (forged) pistons actually have the wrist hole higher, intruding into the ring area.. It's plausible this will allow use of longer rods, but worries about losing engine oil sort of make it quite a risk to try for street setups. The rods also determine the rod angle versus the crank (that's why if you've seen a Golden Eagle sleeved block, you'd notice that the bottom part of the sleeves are notched for rod clearance for preparation for use of an even shorter rod!. The stock B20B rods will result in a very steep piston rod angle that at the beginning of the stroke, they PUSH onto the sleeves hard at BDC, and less as it goes up the sleeves.. This is what causes the vibration, and even block guards cannot reduce it enough esp at high rpms.. and it's also what causes the premature wear and sometimes sleeve failure. Bigger bore also allows the use of shorter rods, but shorter rods (in a B20B setup with stock sleeves) is a risky venture.. one that my finances won't allow me to try.. and by observing the theories alone.. I don't think it's a safe bet that it will be reliable.

Generally, a longer rod reduces this, but a better option is using a block brace (Spoon or SS works) URL]

Yeah.. that might solve the heat problem.. but that doesn't solve the vibration problem. And the wall stresses aren't caused by heat alone, as I mentioned earlier in the rod length portion.

Read above on piston rod angle and how it causes vibration for why rods only doesn't cut it. Aftermarket rods are lighter and stronger, and also available in custom sizes.. but that's about it for the advantages from what I see.

But running on the track is to push the engine to the max, isn't it? Anyway.. I'm not saying you can't use it.. more like a B18C is a more nicer option since you can rev the shit out of it without worries. (provided you didn't remove the rev limiter).. I've never driven on sepang.. although I'm looking forward to it.. hopefully sometime in december. Perhaps I'll have a better idea of what you mean then. And it might just be the place to work on heel & toe skills.. :P
 
ace79 said:
Ok, for my B20B plans, I don't want to bore up the block, standard piston size will do.

Future upgrades ( if I do go for the B20B conversion ) is a block brace + baffled oil sump, then piston rods. So, a safe bet is to go for longer piston rods ( i,.e longer than OEM B20B ), that is, after fitment of a block brace?

If it was so easy.. longer rods means using forged pistons with a higher wrist pin, since the TDC height for the top of the piston is higher already..

I thought about it a lot already.. it always come back to using a shorter crank to accomodate the extra length of the rod. (>.<)
 
So a shorter crank + longer rods is still required...and custom forged pistons? Aiyak!

shiroitenshi said:
If it was so easy.. longer rods means using forged pistons with a higher wrist pin, since the TDC height for the top of the piston is higher already..

I thought about it a lot already.. it always come back to using a shorter crank to accomodate the extra length of the rod. (>.quote]
 
ace79 said:
So a shorter crank + longer rods is still required...and custom forged pistons? Aiyak!

not necessarily forged piston... if you can find a cast piston that fits with a higher wrist pin location... it will work.. it's easier to imagine what happens to your TDC height if you draw it out and plot the locations of the piston at 0, 45, 90, 180 degree at the crank.. then draw the height... if you have a block handy you can observe.. even easier (or harder, if you hate physical work.. :P)

Oh.. it seems I made an error.. it wasn't a DC2 piston that was mated to the stock crank and rod of the B20B.. more like a DC5 (K20A)... oops!
 
tokokman,
can..can...come lar n c 4 urself....i can even fit u into d gbox..setan u!hahahaha

*longer crank(B18C)+B16B rod+custom pistons(OMEGA)=SEEKER Japan....ain't their Civic oredy using dis set up?--->F.A.S.T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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