Imola, San Marino Gp

[zero4]

and kimi is good, all he need is a reliable car now

 

[cyclonite]

Originally posted by BlackSamurai@Apr 26 2005, 09:23
bridgestone always having better performance than Michelin at cooler temperature . And now the F1 is back to europe, which also helps Ferrrari performance.

Plus, Imola is Ferrari home GP, their factory is just miles away from the circuit and they conduct lot's of testing there. All these fact, actually help Ferrari to have a stunning race last weekend.

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Yes I think you have a very balanced view of the situation. 1 more thing to add, Schumacher was running on a new engine as compared to Alonso and the rest. It seems that Ferrari was squeezing the juice out of everything just to get a win at their home track, but they couldn't and they know that they can't perform this great in the coming races because so happened everything fell into their favour this weekend. Maybe that's why jean todt wasn't so happy. :(

Next weekend will be Alonso's home race. I hope Schumacher will steal the win back from him la.

 

[butthead]

its those round black things... that we call TAYAR/tyres... and i would believe that this track rewards mechanical grip way more than aerodynamics. As i've read, someone said mr. shoeman was right at the rear wing of AhLunsok...... well that's cause they were both braking into a very slow corner (5th last corner/ near the end of sector 3) where mechanical grip is more important than aero. If you notice, the other part SCHUmaikai was near again is at the hairpin!! Aside from that, he's always 3-4 car lengths away.... so... wanna know if the F2005 is damn good aerodynamically? Look out for the next race in Barcelona, Spain. Any car that has bad aero will be uncovered there! Only conclusion i'm drawing from this race is

1. Bridgestone upped their game
2. The F2005 is very good mechanically (well they were last to bring their new car out, so there's definitely more development.)
3. Schumaikai has bloody good stamina even though he's 36yrs-old

i believe Schumi has a much better aero package... he was surprisingly fast after leaving the pack he started with and until he was near Alonso and Button...at that point he seems to lost all speed...i think if he was given a clear track...Alonso with or without engine problems would have sucked dust...

even at Bahrain, Schumi was stabbing at Alonso's ass all the time...i jus dun get where the heck did Renault pull all those torque from...every corner it seems that Alonso can jus pull away from Schumi even though he is stuck on his rear wing...

 

[butthead]

Yes I think you have a very balanced view of the situation. 1 more thing to add, Schumacher was running on a new engine as compared to Alonso and the rest. It seems that Ferrari was squeezing the juice out of everything just to get a win at their home track, but they couldn't and they know that they can't perform this great in the coming races because so happened everything fell into their favour this weekend. Maybe that's why jean todt wasn't so happy. :(

Next weekend will be Alonso's home race. I hope Schumacher will steal the win back from him la.

to me, i think Ferarri has a better chance at reliability than Renault...Ferrari always had reserve in their engine for use when in needed... i saw rumours in magazines stating that they showcased their true engine potential last year once only at Italian GP...the race where Schumi spunned on the first lap and Rubens got caught in a screwed up tyre choice...they got a 1-2 in that race...

i think Alonso would have looked out for his engine at Bahrain as he was leading a lot...still he get some engine issues in Imola...next race reliability issues or not...they would have to risk it at Imola or Ferrari president Jean would have stab his own balls for letting his country down... we would know the results in the next race...

 

[prodigy]

i do agree that ferrari's put together a superbly quick and reliable machine thru the years. just look at how many times michael has retired due to parts failure. however, don't listen to rumours saying ferrari always have some reserve in engine power when it matters most. formula 1 cars are always at the cutting edge of new technologies and i truely believe they're maximising what the engine can offer in every single race. its hard to believe ferrari would 'reserve' the extra 20hp or 500rpm worth of revs just to use it in front of the tifosi. to me, the extra power that we see is a little bit of psychological. imagine you're running at the home track. most of your engineers are italian, your whole executive board is italian, the tifosi are rooting for you every single lap, you car feels great. thats where you get the additional motivation. just like football.

generally i'd say every f1 team has their own R&D and constantly coming out with new parts. even if a newly manufactured part which has a 50-50 chance of blowing in the race, these guys will still wanna take the risk by using it. its the best team like ferrari, that is able to reduce the risk of 50-50 to 80-20 so successfully.

 

[[Joc]]

i believe Schumi has a much better aero package... he was surprisingly fast after leaving the pack he started with and until he was near Alonso and Button...at that point he seems to lost all speed...i think if he was given a clear track...Alonso with or without engine problems would have sucked dust...

even at Bahrain, Schumi was stabbing at Alonso's ass all the time...i jus dun get where the heck did Renault pull all those torque from...every corner it seems that Alonso can jus pull away from Schumi even though he is stuck on his rear wing...

that renault has tremendous traction!! remember last year when they were overtaking 2 cars everytime they get off the start line? that's how good their traction is. this, to me, i think, can be down to two things.
One, is their engine. Renault are now using their 72degree engine rather than the conventional 90degrees. Before this it was their fabled 110degree "wideangle" engine which didn't give them enough power and reliability. So this little engine of theirs have recently came back up the power chart, and i think they have tuned it very nicely, allowing the engine to give plenty of torque even at low RPMs.
Second, it could be their car setup and suspension geometry. Renault were the first team a few years back to fully design a suspension completely around and for Michelins. And i'm sure today, they've fine tuned and built the suspension to the tyre and the tyre to the suspension and it's an iterative process, but i'd bet they've got a hell lot of results out of it.
Can't seem to find any other reason as to why their traction is so good, anyone care to share some light?

 

[prodigy]

joc,

good thinking you've had. yes, i used to envy those crazy renault starts whereby they overtake 2 or 3 cars almost just for fun. good start is one thing, mid range torque is what the renault is good at the moment. you'll see them pulling away from the corners but as they reach the braking point of another corner, the opposition has already close up.

one thing which i think plays a part in renaults super quick starts is their traction control design ie. on board electronics. i remember 2 years back the FIA banned renaults traction control because they were intercepting some signal and using it to perfectly launch the car once the light turned green. can't remember in detail but at least is sounded like that.

 

[butthead]

that renault has tremendous traction!! remember last year when they were overtaking 2 cars everytime they get off the start line? that's how good their traction is. this, to me, i think, can be down to two things.
One, is their engine. Renault are now using their 72degree engine rather than the conventional 90degrees. Before this it was their fabled 110degree "wideangle" engine which didn't give them enough power and reliability. So this little engine of theirs have recently came back up the power chart, and i think they have tuned it very nicely, allowing the engine to give plenty of torque even at low RPMs.
Second, it could be their car setup and suspension geometry. Renault were the first team a few years back to fully design a suspension completely around and for Michelins. And i'm sure today, they've fine tuned and built the suspension to the tyre and the tyre to the suspension and it's an iterative process, but i'd bet they've got a hell lot of results out of it.
Can't seem to find any other reason as to why their traction is so good, anyone care to share some light?

i think their traction would be due to how they design their chasis to fit their engine characteristics...it is also a superb advantage to be able to launch out of the corners faster than the rivals...they could control the pace of the rivals at the corner entry and leave then on the straights...remember last years German GP were Button was faster than Alonso for most of the lap but still got stuck behind Alonso...he was taking ages to pass him especially the Sachs hairpin where Alonso could outrun Button into the Stadium...he did the same to Schumi at Tosa..

 

[BoatOwner]

i remember 2 years back the FIA banned renaults traction control because they were intercepting some signal and using it to perfectly launch the car once the light turned green.

They wouldn't be overtaking many cars if they wait for the lights to turn green ;).


Renault starts during recent years has also been atributed to their rearwards weight bias. Notice especially last year how understeery the cars were(because of the weight bias). They made it work for them - there doesn't seem to be as much understeer this year, probably because they need to make the tyres last the entire race.

Mclaren launch system can't be too shabby either, notice that Alonso was unable to pass Kimi at Imola :).

 

[[Joc]]

Mclaren launch system can't be too shabby either, notice that Alonso was unable to pass Kimi at Imola :).

Ohhh yes i vouch for that!!! Sigh, damn McLarens... when are they ever going to be REAL good. For the past 4 races now, they've always managed to get best lap of the race or 2nd best at Imola, but they somehow just can't quite make it work and turn it into a win. When kimi's car broke and slowed down, i nearly needed a new tv, but obviously i can't afford one so i refrained. And you know how bloody irritating it would be to have some friends call and start laughing!! Sigh, barcelona is coming and i'm already prepared to be disappointed once more.

prodigy,
yeah i've heard about that rumour, and apparently it is still a rumour, that the renaults have intercepted the electric wave/frequency of the start lights. Apparently after the last red light lights up, and its about to dim off, there has to be a cut in electricity, so there's a change in EMF or flux or whatever (im not a electrical engineer or a physicist), their onboard computer captures it and disengages the clutch. But it was fun watching them fly past everyone. Did you hear Sato's radio during the starts!!! Its awesome!! The BARs are ok too, remember sato nudging schumacher at monaco last year?? hahaha, kamikaze is always his style. Well back to Sato, his race engineer Jock Clear would always go through the start with him. Like who's in front who's behind, until after the first corner and the cars take place properly. So he'll go like "Sauber sauber behind you on the right... williams williams left left left, space in front.... bla bla bla" its real fun to watch!!

 

[prodigy]

joc,
glad you clarified but it could well be true. these f1 guys are pure genious. how could they ever think of doing such thing. however, they're still very much a quick starter.

also glad you're a mclaren fan coz i am too. and yeah, i've been laughed at almost 4 years since mika last won the WDC. its quite dissapointing watching mclaren smoke their cars every now and then. just when i thought they're back with kimi driving strongly over the pass few races, they hit another low by retiring in the lead. just for the records, team mclaren now have 4 different drivers in the championship points.

sato's onboard is real funny. jock clear must have thought sato suck at the starts that he had to guide him thru the first corner. makes me wonder if we're watching 'formula 1 for dummies'. hard to imagine why would they even want sato in the driver lineup if they had to guide him. to please sponsors?

 

[butthead]

Ohhh yes i vouch for that!!! Sigh, damn McLarens... when are they ever going to be REAL good. For the past 4 races now, they've always managed to get best lap of the race or 2nd best at Imola, but they somehow just can't quite make it work and turn it into a win. When kimi's car broke and slowed down, i nearly needed a new tv, but obviously i can't afford one so i refrained. And you know how bloody irritating it would be to have some friends call and start laughing!! Sigh, barcelona is coming and i'm already prepared to be disappointed once more.

prodigy,
yeah i've heard about that rumour, and apparently it is still a rumour, that the renaults have intercepted the electric wave/frequency of the start lights. Apparently after the last red light lights up, and its about to dim off, there has to be a cut in electricity, so there's a change in EMF or flux or whatever (im not a electrical engineer or a physicist), their onboard computer captures it and disengages the clutch. But it was fun watching them fly past everyone. Did you hear Sato's radio during the starts!!! Its awesome!! The BARs are ok too, remember sato nudging schumacher at monaco last year?? hahaha, kamikaze is always his style. Well back to Sato, his race engineer Jock Clear would always go through the start with him. Like who's in front who's behind, until after the first corner and the cars take place properly. So he'll go like "Sauber sauber behind you on the right... williams williams left left left, space in front.... bla bla bla" its real fun to watch!!

dun be dissapointed...Kimi's day will come...personally i rather see him win the WDC rather than Alonso...i dun like Alonso that much...i jus dunno why...

joc,
glad you clarified but it could well be true. these f1 guys are pure genious. how could they ever think of doing such thing. however, they're still very much a quick starter.

also glad you're a mclaren fan coz i am too. and yeah, i've been laughed at almost 4 years since mika last won the WDC. its quite dissapointing watching mclaren smoke their cars every now and then. just when i thought they're back with kimi driving strongly over the pass few races, they hit another low by retiring in the lead. just for the records, team mclaren now have 4 different drivers in the championship points.

sato's onboard is real funny. jock clear must have thought sato suck at the starts that he had to guide him thru the first corner. makes me wonder if we're watching 'formula 1 for dummies'. hard to imagine why would they even want sato in the driver lineup if they had to guide him. to please sponsors?

yeah U R right...it's all about pleasing sponsors especially HONDA...remember how furious Villeneuve was when he found out that a Jap took his seat...

 

[[Joc]]

speaking of kimi over alonso, i definitely don't like alonso. i find him cocky, real cocky. Too confident of himself, but there's a saying that they are all like that to be F1 drivers anyway. Hehe, and the next time you watch a post race conference with alonso in it, take note of his eyebrows and tell me what u think... :)

 

[phizer]

after the imola race we can finally see ferrari is coming back.they still need a lot of work to do because their car still have some reliable issue.