who expert in ice please help me....help help...

[oldskolboyz]

Yup... U can survey at this shop KF Audio Aman Suria, ACP PJ, SoundQuest Cheras, KK Lau around PJ, MegaSound PJ if I not mistaken laaa.... but some of those product beyond your budget... 2 or 3 amp can get 1 new MYvi or Wira SE....

 

[acidcoller]

Yup... U can survey at this shop KF Audio Aman Suria, ACP PJ, SoundQuest Cheras, KK Lau around PJ, MegaSound PJ if I not mistaken laaa.... but some of those product beyond your budget... 2 or 3 amp can get 1 new MYvi or Wira SE....

hehehe
watever tq

mayb i can improve my knowledge

 

[r60262]

increase you amp watt to support you woofer... use 1000w 2 channel

 

[acidcoller]

increase you amp watt to support you woofer... use 1000w 2 channel

bro..
what ur means..


ermmm...

for examples

can i use this amp

General
Output 4 Ohms 150W x 1
Output 2 Ohms 300W x 1
Signal-to-Noise Ratio >100
Frequency Response (±3dB) 20Hz - 500Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion 0.1%
Input Sensitivity 250mV - 4V



or


RMS watt @ 4 Ohm = 1x400w
RMS watt @ 2 ohm = 1x700w
RMS watt @ 1 Ohm = 1x1200w
Frequency Response = 20Hz - 2500Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion 0.1%

or any suggest for spec i must get???

 

[kyheng]

Sure the second 1 is better. But the price sure will be higher compare to first 1.

 

[Zenn]

General
Output 4 Ohms 150W x 1
Output 2 Ohms 300W x 1
Signal-to-Noise Ratio >100
Frequency Response (±3dB) 20Hz - 500Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion 0.1%
Input Sensitivity 250mV - 4V

or

RMS watt @ 4 Ohm = 1x400w
RMS watt @ 2 ohm = 1x700w
RMS watt @ 1 Ohm = 1x1200w
Frequency Response = 20Hz - 2500Hz
Total Harmonic Distortion 0.1%

or any suggest for spec i must get???

your 2 subs are svc and wired in parallel gives u 2ohm, so u need to find an amp that gives enough power to both subs at 2ohm

the 1st amp gives u only 300W at 2ohm, which means each sub gets 150W only, not enuff one...

the 2nd amp better, gives u 700W at 2ohm which means each sub gets 350W, should be enough la since the subs are 250W rms.

 

[appleyard]

i am guessing that amp is the Zeuz amp selling in gr8tunes isnt it. Of course more is better. Someone gave a review that amp is good for its money, never heard or seen that amp but i heard good or average stories on that amp.

Actually last time when i was looking for a mono someone recommended me Zeuz amp, I was sceptical at first because i dont have a big budget. But lastly when i got extra i got a better amp.

 

[acidcoller]

bro..
what is defference original product with ayam product??
got more impact the sound system quality..???

 

[gwsallen]

acidcoller:

original product, says European or U.S products, when stated 200W rms means it actually producing 200W rms or slightly more. ayam brand may stated there 1000W but it actually mean 1000W p.m.p.o which may convert back to about 200W rms more or less. some of you may xperience, my one also 1000W, my friend's one also 1000W but his one more expensive. But my one not as punchy as his. Two also 1000W what.... by the time you found out what is PMPO and what is RMS, you will never go back for ayam brand again.

Secondly, original more durable, less noise, better SQ = more stable signal and etc.

Btw, guys, this is a good thread.

Something just came across my mind. Say i have an amp 500W rms to drive a 10" sub. On my amp, my gain level is half. My question here is am i sending 500W signal to the sub or just 250W? This question has been flying around my head for some time, just that i did not bother to go and find out. Hope some gurus here help me in a short cut way :P Thanks in advance.

 

[acidcoller]

acidcoller:

original product, says European or U.S products, when stated 200W rms means it actually producing 200W rms or slightly more. ayam brand may stated there 1000W but it actually mean 1000W p.m.p.o which may convert back to about 200W rms more or less. some of you may xperience, my one also 1000W, my friend's one also 1000W but his one more expensive. But my one not as punchy as his. Two also 1000W what.... by the time you found out what is PMPO and what is RMS, you will never go back for ayam brand again.

Secondly, original more durable, less noise, better SQ = more stable signal and etc.

Btw, guys, this is a good thread.

Something just came across my mind. Say i have an amp 500W rms to drive a 10" sub. On my amp, my gain level is half. My question here is am i sending 500W signal to the sub or just 250W? This question has been flying around my head for some time, just that i did not bother to go and find out. Hope some gurus here help me in a short cut way :P Thanks in advance.

yes
im very agree with u bro

anyone have any opinion or idea this hot topic???
help me now for upgrade the knowladge about ice system

:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:

 

[kyheng]

gwsallen, the gain on the amp is actually not volume control. Where some people tends to misunderstand it, including me last time. What I understand now(correct me if wrong), if said the amp is 500w and the gain is 50%, it will still reach 500 with this gain(50%) when we push our HU volume higher. If we set to 75 or higher, it will distort or clipping faster(where the speakers starts to crack). This can be notice on speakers and tweeters when the gain is set high, you will get noise or airplane sound. But if you let the HU to work more with the gain set lower, then this problem will be lesser. More info you can get from this website : http://www.bcae1.com/

 

[oldskolboyz]

acidcoller:

Something just came across my mind. Say i have an amp 500W rms to drive a 10" sub. On my amp, my gain level is half. My question here is am i sending 500W signal to the sub or just 250W? This question has been flying around my head for some time, just that i did not bother to go and find out. Hope some gurus here help me in a short cut way :P Thanks in advance.

Not 100% laa.. it's depend on current flow to amp.. let say your amp 500W at 14.4v.. only at this current the amp will pump 500W (max) to you sub.. if the current flow at 13.8v maybe less than that laa.. around 400-450W.. Hope you can check with manual.. every amp manual will show/state the actual power rating like 100w X 2 4ohm 12.v & 150w X 2 4ohm at 13.8v or 14.4v..

Gain control is the Volume Control knob.. I don't know why so many ppl are taught that gains are NOT volume controls.. but that the fact.. Let me try to clarify this a little..

If we hook up a head unit with a 4volt (or more) output to an amplifier, then the volume will get loud very fast when we start to turn it up...In other words if our digital volume control goes from 1-30, then a HIGH VOLT output to an amplifier might make the amplifier reach full power at 5 on the volume scale... That not good cause it would be nice if you had a little more swing in your 1-30 range!

And by the same token a headunit with a LOW VOLT output might have to be turned up all the way to 30 and might still not quite drive the amplifier to full power... That not good either..

A gain control in this case will allow you to adjust the amplifier so it allows the volume of a headunit to control the amplifier so it will get loud at a desirable point in the 1-30 swing... Usually about 3/4 the way up. We don't want it to get loud too fast as we wont have a good control as music levels differ. And we don't want it to have to be turned up all the way to get loud either, because since different music may be recorded at different levels if we set the gains for max output with one music source it might not get loud with a music source recorded at a lesser level.

So, by setting the gains so 3/4 turn of the headunits volume knob gets it LOUD gives you plenty of control and some extra above the 3/4 mark in case you get some music that's recorded at a lesser level...

 

[kyheng]

http://www.bcae1.com/gaincon2.htm

http://www.lightningaudio.com/scrip...mFueX4mcF9zb3J0X2J5PWRmbHQmcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=

Have check 2 website for the gain's topic. Looks like the gain for some amps is volume control and some are not. For Lightning Audio amps thery are from 150mv to 4v on the gains. If we are using middle end HU that have 1.8-2.2v pre-out, by using the calculator(don't know how true is it) we can see that the amp output will be lower with gain set higher

 

[acidcoller]

ok

how about the local brand with ori brand...??

for examples JBL original from distributor with JBL china
got more impact the sound system quality..???

i saw many shop acc sale this item not much defference with ori product
so confuse where is ori or not

:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:

 

[kyheng]

First you must know 1 thing, most of the USA brands are made in China.

 

[appleyard]

Not 100% laa.. it's depend on current flow to amp.. let say your amp 500W at 14.4v.. only at this current the amp will pump 500W (max) to you sub.. if the current flow at 13.8v maybe less than that laa.. around 400-450W.. Hope you can check with manual.. every amp manual will show/state the actual power rating like 100w X 2 4ohm 12.v & 150w X 2 4ohm at 13.8v or 14.4v..

Gain control is the Volume Control knob.. I don't know why so many ppl are taught that gains are NOT volume controls.. but that the fact.. Let me try to clarify this a little..

If we hook up a head unit with a 4volt (or more) output to an amplifier, then the volume will get loud very fast when we start to turn it up...In other words if our digital volume control goes from 1-30, then a HIGH VOLT output to an amplifier might make the amplifier reach full power at 5 on the volume scale... That not good cause it would be nice if you had a little more swing in your 1-30 range!

And by the same token a headunit with a LOW VOLT output might have to be turned up all the way to 30 and might still not quite drive the amplifier to full power... That not good either..

A gain control in this case will allow you to adjust the amplifier so it allows the volume of a headunit to control the amplifier so it will get loud at a desirable point in the 1-30 swing... Usually about 3/4 the way up. We don't want it to get loud too fast as we wont have a good control as music levels differ. And we don't want it to have to be turned up all the way to get loud either, because since different music may be recorded at different levels if we set the gains for max output with one music source it might not get loud with a music source recorded at a lesser level.

So, by setting the gains so 3/4 turn of the headunits volume knob gets it LOUD gives you plenty of control and some extra above the 3/4 mark in case you get some music that's recorded at a lesser level...

Gain is NOT a volume knob. a gain is simply a matching level of your speaker. E.g If you set your gain for your sub higher than your component than your sub wil be louder than your component means your sound is not balance.

Amplifier output it not based on what voltage alone but also current supply. If you run in high voltage but low current draw then your amp will give low output.

E.g let say 2 cars are has an amp that run on 14.4v. Car A use 8 gauge power cables and car B runs with 0/1 gauge. Which car amp's has higher current draw and power output??

I suggest you read more before making your own conclusion as it might mislead those new to ICE and want to learn.

cheers

 

[acidcoller]

First you must know 1 thing, most of the USA brands are made in China.

so..
better we buy the pirate product lar...??
this true...???

 

[oldskolboyz]

Gain is NOT a volume knob. a gain is simply a matching level of your speaker. E.g If you set your gain for your sub higher than your component than your sub wil be louder than your component means your sound is not balance.

Amplifier output it not based on what voltage alone but also current supply. If you run in high voltage but low current draw then your amp will give low output.

E.g let say 2 cars are has an amp that run on 14.4v. Car A use 8 gauge power cables and car B runs with 0/1 gauge. Which car amp's has higher current draw and power output??

I suggest you read more before making your own conclusion as it might mislead those new to ICE and want to learn.
cheers

hope you can read this.. www.teamrocs.com/technical/pages/gains.htm .. the voodo lie around us.. I'm not 1 off the ppl inside that group.. are you?

 

[kyheng]

Not really, even the amp is made in China(US brand) is still better than pirated/imatation. Only I don't like is that US company make more money, just imagine they make the amp in China for 200, but they sell to end user at 3000. 1 thing we must know that all the eletronic component when buy in bulk will be dirt cheap, sometimes maybe few cents per piece.

Relax, my friends(Oldskolboyz and appleyard), both of you are right on the gain settings, only some amp is like this and some are not. Based on the Oldskolboyz's website, it is a volume control. But on bcae.com it does not mean like this, even Rockford Fosgate and Lightning Audio also say it is not. So this means both also right as who make the amp will know it the best. But if we can use the calculator provided in bcae.com, then few conclusion can be made. Eclispe HU(8v pre-out) is a waste as the HU volume can go upto 49% with the amp(LA) gain setting at max(4v).

 

[oldskolboyz]

Last time also I tot Gain Control.. when ppl asking I said Gain control.. some stuff call it Gain Or Level Adj Knob & come with 2 rate Volt or Db.. before ppl argue Why in Db coz I'm refer to Macrom 48.13 rate in Db.. to adjust signal before reach speaker... after afew time thinking & look my installer tune my system.. I notice it is Volume Control just name only Gain or Level adj.. Why.. Ist step we adjust signal output from HU before reach Pro, Xo, Amp & last speaker.. as we know HU doesn't have Gain Knob only Volume Knob.. We only across Gain Knob after HU.. Why after HU but the Signal to adjust at Pro, Xo, Amp same as HU... From HU until amp we adjust each signal due to 1 main reason clipping & distorted.. That why I said the Gain Knob function is to control volume output same as HU..

 

[gwsallen]

Not 100% laa.. it's depend on current flow to amp.. let say your amp 500W at 14.4v.. only at this current the amp will pump 500W (max) to you sub.. if the current flow at 13.8v maybe less than that laa.. around 400-450W.. Hope you can check with manual.. every amp manual will show/state the actual power rating like 100w X 2 4ohm 12.v & 150w X 2 4ohm at 13.8v or 14.4v...

So let says:
HU sending 4V to amp
Amp fuse 35A, rated 200W
Battery voltage, 13.5V

Calculation will be 13.5V x 35A = 472.5W pmpo is this calculation correct?

 

[acidcoller]

wah..
vey difficult to understand if not expert in ice like me...


:cry_smile: :cry_smile: :cry_smile:

 

[kyheng]

Too difficult? Ok, to make it simple :
Some amps gain can be used as volume control and some are not so there is always have 2 version of stories.
Based on the bcae.com and LA website, amps are from few mv to 4v, maybe some amps can get higher voltage, this I not that sure.
Most ofthe HU pre-outs voltage now are around 1.8-2.2v.
Mid speakers power is around 50-80w rms.
HU and amps tend to 'clip' or distort when the gain or volume set to too high(80-95%) where they cannot give clean signal anymore. I call this the speakers starts to crack.
So if using the calculator from bcae.com under amp gain, you can put the amp gain at max(4v) and HU at 2v and see the power output. Then follow by amp gain at half(2v) and HU still 2v. You will notice amp gain at max power is lesser than amp gain set at 4v.
The above calculation is based on bcae, if this website is cheating, then I also cheating....

 

[Zenn]

all also the same lah, volume/level/gain from all the devices (HU, crossover, amp) will all increase signal voltage via RCA

 

[appleyard]

Gain = Volume knob

I guess someone else can explain better than me.

A bold statement would be to say that the majority of
power amplifier design is as described in previous post about
gain knobs on amps as being input attenuators.

The real amplifier gain is fixed, the knobs to control gain
are really input signal attenuation 'volume' knobs {potentiometers to reduce the signal}.

Example;
QSC PLX proamps;
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx/plx.htm

Scroll down;

Voltage Gain = 40x (32dB) across all models.

Each PLX has the game voltage gain by design and it's
fixed. Each amp has different power ratings and the amps all have 'gain controls' even though the real gain is fixed.

The word gain is used loosely and it confuses
people.

This may be the reason on how the issue gets confused.

music signal -> Input attenuation pot -> amplifier input stage -> output stage.

Two gain levels;
Gain is fixed between the amplifier input stage and output stage.

But amplifier gain as a whole measured from
the music signal to output stage is different as you
adjust the input attenuation pot, but it will never be
greater than the fixed gain, only equal or less.

This doesn't imply that all amps are this way, most are.
There is nothing stopping anyone from making the real
amplifier gain adjustable by adding a pot and removing the input attenuation pot.

Gains on an amp are made to match the Source units Voltage gain...Squeezing twice the voltage through the amplifer @ 4 volts into (2 volts gain setting on amplifier) will yeild a better noise floor and improved dynamics...increasing the gains on the amplifier allow it to accept a small 2 volt signal and use it's own gain properties to increase the signal to amplify it to audible levels...this isn't the best option due in part that the amplifier would undoubtedly amplify NOISE AND HISS due in part that it isn't sufficiently sheilded or designed to prevent noise from entering the signal...(The Source Deck is responisble for amplifing a clean signal)------not the amplifier.

The amplifier gain is a passive helper to accomodate various SOURCE DECKS voltage differences with out the need to purchase a deck with a higher voltage output. Still the gain on the amplifer is NOT DESIGNED to amplify the signal itself perfectly without noise...it is the source unit's responsibility.