Jun 3 vs TODA C - Durability / maintenance

[Johnny_9]

Jun 3 vs TODA C - Durability, Maintenance, Installation Hassles

- Which Is Better ? :cry_smile: :confused_smile:


a) Valve Springs
b) Rockers
c) Cam Lobes
d) Valve Seats



Installation hassles
- checking piston-to-valve clearances
- tuning AFR/ignition timing

 

[Oderf]

this is interesting..i would like to know too....:_:

 

[crower75]

why limit yourself to these 2 ? What about SkunK2 ?

 

[crower75]

Toda Spec C

Int-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Exh-295 dur. / 12.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Toda
Description: The ultimate cam. This cam mixes the midrange power of the Toda B cam with the top end of similar to that of the JUN Type 3 and Skunk2 Stage 2. Power gains from 4500rpms all the way to 9000rpms. This is truly, the best overall cam for both midrange and top-end power. They might not give the top-end gains of the Skunk2 Stage 3 but you get more midrange and these cams can be used on the street with the right set-up and the deep pocketbook. Due to the crazy off-VTEC lobes the idle is rougher than stock, just like the Toda B cam. I recommend using Toda cam gears with these cams.

 

[crower75]

JUN Type 3

Int-265 dur. / 12.0mm lift
Exh-265 dur. / 11.5mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: JUN preferred but Port Flow works as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: Until the Skunk2 Stage 3 this was the best high-end performing cam on the market. The JUN 3 and Toda B were the two fighting out for the top dog when it was just JUN and Toda (ahh the old days). Again, like the Skunk2 Stage 2, not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms. These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them the ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using JUN cam gears with these cams.

 

[crower75]

Do you know that there is actually TODA Type-D ???

 

[DC VTEC]

i think this i only the theory..
u cannot suddenly feel your car running faster if just
changing the cam.
let say if 10 person changing the cam...maybe only 3~4 person
satisfy with it.
what u say?

 

[crower75]

If what u say is true then why are there more and more cam producing companies in the market nowdays ??

Ofcourse besides the cam other factors play a big influence oso.....like......setting of the cams and re tuning.

 

[chris2000]

Hi, just my experience..

I have used both Jun 3 and Toda C on my B18C with ported B16A heads.

Jun 3 - Low to mid-range not fantastic. My vtec crossover point is at 4800rpm. After vtec switch over, the cam will suddenly pull real hard from about 6000rpm all the way to 9000rpm. Throttle respond from 6k to 9k rpm are awesome. I think if set properly on a B16 engine it will pull all the way to 9.5k to 10k no problem, coz on my B18C, the dyno graph showed that peak power was like at 8950rpm, and it was not dropping yet but lift throttle off at 9100rpm already. Idling also a bit problem but still not too rough on slow speed.

Toda C - Compared with Jun 3, it had better low to mid range power, i think due to the higher duration on the smaller lobe. I found it more difficult to set the cams and the idling was a bitch.. difficult to drive daily on street use.. At vtec cross over point, the power delivery is much smoother and it still pulls comfortably to 9k rpms. But it lacked the sudden surge like the Jun 3 at 6k to 9k.

For outright top end power, I feel Jun3 is better than Toda C. But Low to mid rev i feel toda C better.

Now i'm trying to source other cams option from Japan and USA. Looking for cams to test for daily street use that will give more power than the CTR cams yet near stock idle and another set of cams for outright top end power.. Will keep you guys updated when i get whole of a set to test..

 

[crower75]

Skunk2 Stage 2

Int-266 dur. / 12.3mm lift
Exh-262 dur. / 11.8mm lift
Valve Springs to be used: Skunk2 preferred but Port Flow will work as well. These cams are wild enough that you should not be using the low 8200rpms rev limit.
Description: The new top dog of the cam world. This will become the most common aftermarket (non OEM) cam in the US when they start getting distributed more. These have a very similar power band as the JUN Type 3, with less cost and better reliability (I said the “r” word). Not huge midrange but very good gains from 7000rpms all the way to 9000rpms(peak is usually around 8000-8200rpms). These cams have stock idle characteristics, thus making them the ultimate street/strip cam. I recommend using Skunk2 cam gears with these cams.

 

[Oderf]

good info guys..keep them coming...:X-:

 

[DC VTEC]

what i'am trying to say is, if we just fitted the cam bodoh2 without
doing other modification, it just wasting...(at least p&p)
standard b16a cam also can easily tapau b16a with highcam if they
set-up in the rite way...
i writing with my own experiences.

 

[crower75]

Then I would say that the mech who actually setup the B16A with high cam is bodoh........

 

[LoRiTaNaH]

what about TODA KILLER/JUN 4?? TODA KILLER.... kill the vtec function??

 

[ace79]

la crower75, those reviews is from US Civic Si forum...but yes, this thread is very interesting. the prob with VTEC is that the power is only at the upper end of the RPM range. would love to have more torque, only then can call our Civics as Time Attack / Track Attack machines. I'm not into drag very much, and a top speed of about 220kph is more than enough for me. It's the higher / improved torque values that I'm after, so that can get higher speeds exiting corners, easy overtaking and fun on 'jln2 cari pasal' sessions ( play2 for fun with other same - minded drivers lah ) I've heard about Toda C's idling and streetability probs. maybe those who got Rocket's M22 cams give a review ( damn good value too, less than RM4k for cams, valves, valve springs and Ti retainers! ).

 

[zamrioo2]

ctr with properly tune can tapau toda c... don't trust those advertise spec... higher lift n more duration doesn't mean power... it depends on tuner...

 

[DC VTEC]

ctr with properly tune can tapau toda c... don't trust those advertise spec... higher lift n more duration doesn't mean power... it depends on tuner...

yup...that is only theory.

 

[ace79]

Jun 3 vs TODA C - Durability, Maintenance, Installation Hassles

- Which Is Better ? :cry_smile: :confused_smile:


a) Valve Springs
b) Rockers
c) Cam Lobes
d) Valve Seats



Installation hassles
- checking piston-to-valve clearances
- tuning AFR/ignition timing

installation will not be a hassle, it's the settings and tuning work that's going to be a headache ( unless send your car to a experienced shop who've done such mods often ) usually to avoid valve to piston slam, piston heads should be modded. if you got a copy of Omniman's DVD, Omniman shows how much metal to be shaved from the piston head without losing reliability ( unless the guy who done the cams / valve / valve spring did a mistake lah ). to tune AFR / ignition timing, best go for standalone ( if you got the cash ), not enuff cash but you wanna have good result, go for our local forummer : cipan_supercas, his dad deals in Drax chips, and I've read a number of very good results from his work ( forgot which post lah ), should be less than RM1.4k ( plus chip tuning to your car's spec ).

 

[chris2000]

ctr with properly tune can tapau toda c... don't trust those advertise spec... higher lift n more duration doesn't mean power... it depends on tuner...

Yup, you're right! The CTR cams being a street cam, are so much more easier to tune. Where else those high lift + duration cams are real hard to set. Hence, you will see many CTR cams engine beat those not properly tune Toda C.

When i 1st fitted the Toda C, it took so long to set to get that sweet spot!! initially throttle respond was bad and no top end.

One more thing i forgot to add, one of the reason i changed from Jun 3 to Toda C was that my Jun 3 intake cam snap and broke into 3 pieces at 6500rpm!! End up with a blown motor..

 

[DC VTEC]

Yup, you're right! The CTR cams being a street cam, are so much more easier to tune. Where else those high lift + duration cams are real hard to set. Hence, you will see many CTR cams engine beat those not properly tune Toda C.

When i 1st fitted the Toda C, it took so long to set to get that sweet spot!! initially throttle respond was bad and no top end.

One more thing i forgot to add, one of the reason i changed from Jun 3 to Toda C was that my Jun 3 intake cam snap and broke into 3 pieces at 6500rpm!! End up with a blown motor..

yes...
experiences mechanic also sometimes cannot tuning the cam in the best way.
but this is not mean this mechanic is bodoh...apa la sifu crower ni...simply2 kata
mechanic bodoh.