PS AFE on BT 20V..

[glanza]

anyone has use this Air Fuel Enhancer from PS? i heard this is a good product from US but dunno the compatiblity with our 20V..ai hope someone feel free to share..:stupid:

 

[meg_omen]

interested to know also? anybody have any idea on this?
thanks...

 

[chinozie]

Features looks similar like APEXi SAFC...:hmmmm:

 

[tks]

there is a 17-page long discussion on their products here. Non specific application, but maybe you'll find it interesting.

Cheers!

 

[meg_omen]

there is a 17-page long discussion on their products here. Non specific application, but maybe you'll find it interesting.

Cheers!

search engine is my best friend actually...
already gone thru it and yes no specific application to 20V... which is why i'm following up with the thread owner question...
right now i'm considering other ecus whether piggy or standalone...:hmmmm:
anybody with 20V Blacktop using:-
- Haltech S500 or E6X
- Adaptronic
- Haltech Interceptor
- Unichip
- PS Powersports - AFE and/or battery enhancer

care to share your experience?
how about using high cams with VVT enable, anybody?
my consideration is caused of tuning and installation... coz of...
"tuning and re-tune emanage cost around 300 - 350 each time"

 

[pcmoddingmy]

I think the most common piggyback for 20V would be Emanage as I've seen quite a number of 20V owners using it already. Basically, most piggyback and standalone have more/less about the same feature... the question is finding the right tuner to fully utilize the management. IMO, no point installing even the most expensive EMS such as Motec if your tuner cant fully utilize it let alone properly tune your engine.

bro meg_omen: I think maximum duration for VVT with high cams would be 272°. If seen some claim that some could still run VVT with 280° but its gonna be pretty tight. You might want to refer to 9000rpm.net forums to check on this.
Retuning emanage depends on tuner and tuning shops, some will charge you from as low as RM150 (for wideband road tuning) and the cheapest I've known is around RM250 for dyno tuning. Best practice would be to install everything and tune at one go... but of cause as time moves on we will tend to upgrade parts and needs retuning again, but if its minor upgrade then maybe you might want to wait until you're comfortable to spend money on dyno tuning it again.

 

[chinozie]

yup tuner...not all tuner give thier 100% potential...for sure...i would be doing the same thing...heeeee...

self tune would be nice...but hard to get the real deal...unless have tones of experience not to forget failures...cuz it's not easy to get from A to Z...

examples...Kegani...took years for them to achieves the priceless wins at S1k...

errrrr...am i out of topic here ? ngehhhh...

 

[meg_omen]

I think the most common piggyback for 20V would be Emanage as I've seen quite a number of 20V owners using it already. Basically, most piggyback and standalone have more/less about the same feature... the question is finding the right tuner to fully utilize the management. IMO, no point installing even the most expensive EMS such as Motec if your tuner cant fully utilize it let alone properly tune your engine.

bro meg_omen: I think maximum duration for VVT with high cams would be 272°. If seen some claim that some could still run VVT with 280° but its gonna be pretty tight. You might want to refer to 9000rpm.net forums to check on this.
Retuning emanage depends on tuner and tuning shops, some will charge you from as low as RM150 (for wideband road tuning) and the cheapest I've known is around RM250 for dyno tuning. Best practice would be to install everything and tune at one go... but of cause as time moves on we will tend to upgrade parts and needs retuning again, but if its minor upgrade then maybe you might want to wait until you're comfortable to spend money on dyno tuning it again.

as i said... the search engine is my friend... i already knew all this...
and i don't agree with your statement bold above... features and usability is different subject...
there's also people in SA who runs 290 with VVT... however their arena is different coz their ecu is local built...
you should knew me coz regular at Salak wshop...
for me cost is not an issue if it's justifiable...:proud:
i know the best would be Megasquirt, coz the owner must know everything... but the amount of time you've to spend to learn is crazy, due to other commitment...:hmmmm:

the question are:-
- would the tuner tune your engine properly and according to what the owner wants
- which is easier to tweak by the owner himself? of coz with proper tools and WB

you have a lof of experience with emanage, why don't you share the emanage portion like
- complete wiring diagram for 4age BT and ST
- wiring up WB O2 to emanage for autotune

imagine this ya --> i've being asked whether my emanage wiring is properly done... this is on the 3rd tuning and dyno at the same place...:stupid:

 

[pcmoddingmy]

as i said... the search engine is my friend... i already knew all this...
and i don't agree with your statement bold above... features and usability is different subject...
there's also people in SA who runs 290 with VVT... however their arena is different coz their ecu is local built...
you should knew me coz regular at Salak wshop...
for me cost is not an issue if it's justifiable...:proud:
i know the best would be Megasquirt, coz the owner must know everything... but the amount of time you've to spend to learn is crazy, due to other commitment...:hmmmm:

the question are:-
- would the tuner tune your engine properly and according to what the owner wants
- which is easier to tweak by the owner himself? of coz with proper tools and WB

you have a lof of experience with emanage, why don't you share the emanage portion like
- complete wiring diagram for 4age BT and ST
- wiring up WB O2 to emanage for autotune

imagine this ya --> i've being asked whether my emanage wiring is properly done... this is on the 3rd tuning and dyno at the same place...:stupid:

Hmm.... sorry lah bro... I didnt know that you're a regular at Salak workshop...hehehe
Anyways, my bad on the features & usability as I was actually replying that to the thread starter in regards to the PS AFE.
Well... SA and Malaysia is not much different actually, as we also have our own local built ECU... heard of Protech? But I believe, running VVT with higher cams is more of a mechanical issue rather than electronical issue due to the valve lift & clearance especially during VVT is activated. Anyways, based on most cam manufacturer's spec 272 should be the max when retaining the stock VVT function.

i) Yes, there are turners who will go to extra lengths to get the tuning properly done... but it would usually take up a lot of time. I've seen tuners who will do dyno tuning for starters and finishing it off with road tuning for a more finer tuning. However, 1 tune would never be enough as usually you wont be able to find the sweet spot during the first tune. Mostly you would have to revisit the second or third time. If the tuner is not up to your expectations, its time to move one to another tuner perhaps.
ii) i guess any piggyback is easier to tune when compared to standalone.

well, i dont have a lot of experience with emanage... just slowly learning only through forums/friend and from other tuners and mechs. For complete wiring for BT & ST, I think you can find it on the emanage manual (or search online). Basically you'll need the BT & ST ECU wiring pinout and you're good to go. As for wiring up WB02 to emanage, there is a diagram online too... but I can only remember the WB02 output being connected to the boost socket. Only one output wire from WB02 is connected to the boost socket on the emanage.

If your emanage wiring is not properly done, you would have issues even tuning it at the first place. Perhaps we could meet up at Achai's and I can have a look at ur map and maybe u can try my map as well.

 

[meg_omen]

no issue in doing that...
do you have anything that can do dataloging...:hmmmm:

btw, it's very hard to get the wiring diagram nowadays... coz em blue is considered old model...

some info if you browse thru --> http://www.diytuning.com/forums/index.php

to thread owner --> apologies if it seems i've hijacked this thread, just wanted more infromation related to ecu...
btw, nowadays techinal duscussion is getting lesser...

 

[glanza]

nevermind bro meg since we still got something from here..but a bit disapointed bcoz too limited info for PS product on 20V.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

no issue in doing that...
do you have anything that can do dataloging...:hmmmm:

btw, it's very hard to get the wiring diagram nowadays... coz em blue is considered old model...

some info if you browse thru --> http://www.diytuning.com/forums/index.php

to thread owner --> apologies if it seems i've hijacked this thread, just wanted more infromation related to ecu...
btw, nowadays techinal duscussion is getting lesser...

As for dataloging, E-manage blue can do that. It can even datalog AFR and chart it along with RPM, TPS, MAP... etc. Then you can trace the AFR to the map and adjust accordingly (it will highlight the affected areas).
However, please note that auto-tuning is not possible with E-manage Blue... at least when using the E-manage Support Tool. I've read in some emanage forums that autotune is possible when using some third party software but I've tried it and it doesn't work. Note that Autotune is currently supported with the Ultimate.

As for wiring, you can try this website: http://www.greddy.com/tech-support/e-manage/
But i noticed the diagrams over there are quite outdated as I have a printed original Emanage Instruction Manual with diagrams for AE101/AE111 4AGE. The one on the web only shows diagrams for AE86 4AGE. Maybe I'll scan mine and upload it.

 

[km_chew]

Stock ECU supporter here ... <-- out of topic ..

 

[lkeong88]

I thought you are running adaptronic?

 

[cuscostrutbrace]

I support stock ecu and stock engine also.....

 

[km_chew]

No changes with Adaptronic / stock ECU for a stock engine .. Hence the stock ECU perform better in street & dyno machine. And pls, this is based on my car and my humble facts.

 

[pcmoddingmy]

Hey sifu km_chew.... hehe... i think you're special case bro... coz even with stock ecu, your engine is putting out some serious whp over there.
Anyways, stock ecu + stock engine is the best setup... but once you've altered the intake and exhaust setup, its good to have piggyback to correct back the airflow and gain some hp with ignition mapping. Note that stock ecu can only calculate and learn the intake/exhaust changes based on various sensors in the engine... but once you're on WOT, it goes back to the original fuel mapping that was tuned for stock intake/exhaust setup.
As for standalone, I believe its more effective for engines with modified internals or if tuning the engine for a specific use (track/drift/etc). Most importantly, its the tuner and how much time is he/she willing to spend and fine tuning the EMS.

 

[meg_omen]

one of the reason i seldom post in ZTH is due to spam...
very contructive comments indeed...:hmmmm:

anyway, let make it a clear discussion and assume you're having 27+ cam in/ex... plus all the necessary hardware to support it... at this point your idling is out coz of the high cams as even TODA recommend the highest to be 256/264 cams with stock ecu...

so you'll need some support to make your drive livelier...
and it's hard to trust the tuner coz of money... well each time you wanted to re-tune it cost $$$...
then the best will be something that you're able to understand and tweak by yourself...
of course you need to have at least a WB O2 sensor with datalogging in order to properly tweak it...

so lets the discussion begins....

---------- Post added at 09:06 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 08:53 AM ----------

PS-AFE --> allows you to tweak the setting by youself but how about the tuning coz i see the tuning point is very minimal...
Haltech Interceptor --> do you need a special tool to tweak.. is it easily available to the owner...
Microtech --> which is best for 20V... i believe you need special tool for this...
Haltech S500 or S1000 --> do you need a special tool to tweak.. is it easily available to the owner...
is it best to change to ignition i.e from distributor to wasted spark or full sequential or COP... what other hardware needed...

some decision on whether it's piggyback or standalone is the idling and air-cond control...:hmmmm:

pcmoddingmy:- yes the diagram is outdated which is why i'm asking for it...
at the moment i haven't acquire the em-blue support tools and the cable... current lokking to purchase one, i believe still availble thru the marketplace...

 

[EG9]

Forget about piggyback. Piggy back is only alter the signal that capture from map sensor to ecu. The function of piggy back is just to cheat the stock ecu by sending altered signal to direct the ecu to read on different cells on the stop mapping.
When you alter the map sensor signal but using safc or e-manage or any other piggy back, don't forget that it's not only change the reading on the fuel map but it also affect the reading on the ignition map. It may not give the result that you want.

Go for standalone ecu, Any standalone ecu is just a ecu with tweak-able variable. It's all depend on tuner to extract the power of the ecu.
Some of you may be surprise with what standalone ecu can do if the tuner really put effort in tuning it.
A totally stock healthy 4AGE 20V engine with proper tuning (standalone ecu)on SEG chassis can keep up with Honda B16B stock engine (stock ecu) or maybe overtake it.

 

[meg_omen]

it will be the next step to do now... probably going for Haltech S500...
atm doing r&d to know whether MyVi can use this e-manage blue???:hmmmm: