VTEC RON95 Myth

[Izso]

I've heard that lower RON 'can' give better power...in case which the spark timing is already at its advance limit..
Logically higher RON have more additives rather than the oil itself. Thus lower energy overall..
It's only the to prevent knocking/detonation...



Many people wouldn't agree this...

Dude - please start a new thread for this. I would really want to hear what it is you have to say about this.

 

[vr2turbo]

Dude - please start a new thread for this. I would really want to hear what it is you have to say about this.

Yup, want to know more of it too......

 

[arturo]

ya...how?

 

[xtremeleo]

sure,if d ignition timing remains d same,and its not pinging,ron 95 may be able to produce more power. higher ron have a higher resistance to preignition,hence u r able to further advance the ignition timing,which is key to produce more power. simply,higher ron allows u to tune d igniton timing more aggressively to produce more power

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

sure,if d ignition timing remains d same,and its not pinging,ron 95 may be able to produce more power. higher ron have a higher resistance to preignition,hence u r able to further advance the ignition timing,which is key to produce more power. simply,higher ron allows u to tune d igniton timing more aggressively to produce more power

^
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This!

I read it from here..
The influence of RON on engine performance

The question is, how far can this ignition timing advance go...im speaking for engines originally tuned for RON91..or even RON95..
can it take advantage when using RON97 or RON99 or RON104?
How far can this timing advance go...anyone test? got proof?

p/s: really need to open new thread to discuss this? lets see how the discussion go 1st..

 

[xtremeleo]

u go as far as u can,dependant on d firstly ron and den ur system's limit

 

[cvkit17]

Octane number only determines the ignition temperature. Low octane fuel ignites at lower temperature / pressure inside the combustion chamber and high octane fuel burns at higher temperature / pressure. If talk about pure fuel without any additives, they are pretty much the same except for the sentence i mentioned above.

The 'power' from RON97 over RON95 is actually provided by the additives (from an engine which is compatible with RON95 or even lower).
I would say that RON97 fuel from Brand A isnt necessarily better than RON95 from Brand B. It all depends on the additives and the so called great formula.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

u go as far as u can,dependant on d firstly ron and den ur system's limit

yes, the sysem limit..
i believe our ecu can do auto timing tuning...while carburator have manual tuning..

when people replied, tested both 95 and 97...97 give more power and better efficiency..
i think they don't manually tuned the engines...they let the engine adapt/tuned itself to the fuel...
surely the system have limits...can engine tuned for RON91 gives better power by adapting to RON97?can it adapt until that level?

Octane number only determines the ignition temperature. Low octane fuel ignites at lower temperature / pressure inside the combustion chamber and high octane fuel burns at higher temperature / pressure. If talk about pure fuel without any additives, they are pretty much the same except for the sentence i mentioned above.

The 'power' from RON97 over RON95 is actually provided by the additives (from an engine which is compatible with RON95 or even lower).
I would say that RON97 fuel from Brand A isnt necessarily better than RON95 from Brand B. It all depends on the additives and the so called great formula.

you're saying that additives can add power to the fuel..what additive is that?the exact name of the additives...

i just want to know what chemical have more energy than the fuel itself..

 

[K_C]

what about b16b and b18cr on ron95?

 

[cvkit17]

Err..sure dowana open another thread for this ar?

Well I can see where your question is going - additives providing more power than the fuel itself. Fuel is the energy source when it burns. We are not pumping additives and add fuel into the additives, are we? And frankly speaking I'm not a petrochemical engineer or I work in fuel processing R&D department. So I don't know what additives they put in. If I do I might be rich lol...

So when fuel comparing to each other, RON95 or RON97, without any additives, the only comparison we can do is the octane number. And octane number doesn't equal to power.

Btw does B16 has knock sensor? If yes then it might be able to adapt until certain RON number...

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

Err..sure dowana open another thread for this ar?

Well I can see where your question is going - additives providing more power than the fuel itself. Fuel is the energy source when it burns. We are not pumping additives and add fuel into the additives, are we? And frankly speaking I'm not a petrochemical engineer or I work in fuel processing R&D department. So I don't know what additives they put in. If I do I might be rich lol...

So when fuel comparing to each other, RON95 or RON97, without any additives, the only comparison we can do is the octane number. And octane number doesn't equal to power.

Btw does B16 has knock sensor? If yes then it might be able to adapt until certain RON number...

yup..got it there...
fuel that provides energy...the power source..

additives use to increase octane rating..lubricant...bla-bla...
List of gasoline additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Higher RON can produce more power only if the engine advance the ignition timing (or manually)..
If not...hope you get the point..

i might open new thread later today for this..

 

[udengfahlawi]

tune your ecu to max power using RON95, then at any time it will be safe to run with either RON95 or RON97....but not the other way around...should be fine for daily driving n occasional rempit....there ain't much difference in max power just comparing between RON95 and RON97 anyway...but if you comparing RON95/97 with F-gas, VP race fuel, etc., then baru laa the differece is noticeable....

 

[vr2turbo]

yup..got it there...
fuel that provides energy...the power source..

additives use to increase octane rating..lubricant...bla-bla...
List of gasoline additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Higher RON can produce more power only if the engine advance the ignition timing (or manually)..
If not...hope you get the point..

i might open new thread later today for this..

Yup, Basically if your car originally is tuned to Ron95, with Ron97 it does not make any difference.
I tested my Old Hyundai that requires Ron91 only and no difference....:rolleyes:
But if your car is originally tuned to RON97 then using Ron95 will have loss of power. Bringing down the ignition advance is actually bringing down it's power too.
This one I tested my VR and it cannot go pass 4.5k RPM and knocking starts...

 

[cvkit17]

Yup, Basically if your car originally is tuned to Ron95, with Ron97 it does not make any difference.
I tested my Old Hyundai that requires Ron91 only and no difference....:rolleyes:
But if your car is originally tuned to RON97 then using Ron95 will have loss of power. Bringing down the ignition advance is actually bringing down it's power too.
This one I tested my VR and it cannot go pass 4.5k RPM and knocking starts...

Yeap that is it. The octane number doesn't mean the power one can churn from the fuel. It is the engine tuning itself that utilizes the octane number. It is sometimes tired and sad to hear many people including some of my friends and families believe that RON97 is more powerful than RON95 because it is more expensive, premium, high number (97 than 95, but most don't even know what the number means and what it does), etc.

And it is even more saddening when I tried to explain to them the theory behind but the acted in a way that I'm a fool and baseless, and that the rumors by others of their kind are reliable. Talking bout pride...

I wonder where is the TS btw...to the TS, does your engine knocks running on RON95, at both high or low rev? If yes, then either tune your engine or use RON97 or add octane booster. If not, just keep it that way and your engine will be fine.

 

[6UE5t]

Actually one can just look at the US who only has max RON95 available anywhere, but yet they also have most cars in the world sold there, be it slow econo cars to hyper cars with scary power levels, and all those still can run perfectly ok with the available RON95, don't they? :) So that should answer any doubt if RON95 will damage your engines or not.

Few days ago I also saw an episode of 5th gear whereby they tested several fuels of RON 95, 97, & 98 on a Golf GTI. The result was some of the higher RON do produce a bit more max power (some up to 3-4HP) but other also only produce <1HP difference compared to RON95. When test driven, they would only notice a slight difference in throttle response. So the conclusion, even if they do can make more power, it actually might not be worth the price difference as most of the time you would not benefit from it (I guess unless you go racing or time attack session where every bit of power and seconds is important). Of course again provided the car can still adjust to accommodate the lower RON so it won't knock.