VTEC RON95 Myth

[xtremeleo]

u go as far as u can,dependant on d firstly ron and den ur system's limit

 

[cvkit17]

Octane number only determines the ignition temperature. Low octane fuel ignites at lower temperature / pressure inside the combustion chamber and high octane fuel burns at higher temperature / pressure. If talk about pure fuel without any additives, they are pretty much the same except for the sentence i mentioned above.

The 'power' from RON97 over RON95 is actually provided by the additives (from an engine which is compatible with RON95 or even lower).
I would say that RON97 fuel from Brand A isnt necessarily better than RON95 from Brand B. It all depends on the additives and the so called great formula.

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

u go as far as u can,dependant on d firstly ron and den ur system's limit

yes, the sysem limit..
i believe our ecu can do auto timing tuning...while carburator have manual tuning..

when people replied, tested both 95 and 97...97 give more power and better efficiency..
i think they don't manually tuned the engines...they let the engine adapt/tuned itself to the fuel...
surely the system have limits...can engine tuned for RON91 gives better power by adapting to RON97?can it adapt until that level?

Octane number only determines the ignition temperature. Low octane fuel ignites at lower temperature / pressure inside the combustion chamber and high octane fuel burns at higher temperature / pressure. If talk about pure fuel without any additives, they are pretty much the same except for the sentence i mentioned above.

The 'power' from RON97 over RON95 is actually provided by the additives (from an engine which is compatible with RON95 or even lower).
I would say that RON97 fuel from Brand A isnt necessarily better than RON95 from Brand B. It all depends on the additives and the so called great formula.

you're saying that additives can add power to the fuel..what additive is that?the exact name of the additives...

i just want to know what chemical have more energy than the fuel itself..

 

[K_C]

what about b16b and b18cr on ron95?

 

[cvkit17]

Err..sure dowana open another thread for this ar?

Well I can see where your question is going - additives providing more power than the fuel itself. Fuel is the energy source when it burns. We are not pumping additives and add fuel into the additives, are we? And frankly speaking I'm not a petrochemical engineer or I work in fuel processing R&D department. So I don't know what additives they put in. If I do I might be rich lol...

So when fuel comparing to each other, RON95 or RON97, without any additives, the only comparison we can do is the octane number. And octane number doesn't equal to power.

Btw does B16 has knock sensor? If yes then it might be able to adapt until certain RON number...

 

[Waiora_ProTuner]

Err..sure dowana open another thread for this ar?

Well I can see where your question is going - additives providing more power than the fuel itself. Fuel is the energy source when it burns. We are not pumping additives and add fuel into the additives, are we? And frankly speaking I'm not a petrochemical engineer or I work in fuel processing R&D department. So I don't know what additives they put in. If I do I might be rich lol...

So when fuel comparing to each other, RON95 or RON97, without any additives, the only comparison we can do is the octane number. And octane number doesn't equal to power.

Btw does B16 has knock sensor? If yes then it might be able to adapt until certain RON number...

yup..got it there...
fuel that provides energy...the power source..

additives use to increase octane rating..lubricant...bla-bla...
List of gasoline additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Higher RON can produce more power only if the engine advance the ignition timing (or manually)..
If not...hope you get the point..

i might open new thread later today for this..

 

[udengfahlawi]

tune your ecu to max power using RON95, then at any time it will be safe to run with either RON95 or RON97....but not the other way around...should be fine for daily driving n occasional rempit....there ain't much difference in max power just comparing between RON95 and RON97 anyway...but if you comparing RON95/97 with F-gas, VP race fuel, etc., then baru laa the differece is noticeable....

 

[vr2turbo]

yup..got it there...
fuel that provides energy...the power source..

additives use to increase octane rating..lubricant...bla-bla...
List of gasoline additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Higher RON can produce more power only if the engine advance the ignition timing (or manually)..
If not...hope you get the point..

i might open new thread later today for this..

Yup, Basically if your car originally is tuned to Ron95, with Ron97 it does not make any difference.
I tested my Old Hyundai that requires Ron91 only and no difference....:rolleyes:
But if your car is originally tuned to RON97 then using Ron95 will have loss of power. Bringing down the ignition advance is actually bringing down it's power too.
This one I tested my VR and it cannot go pass 4.5k RPM and knocking starts...

 

[cvkit17]

Yup, Basically if your car originally is tuned to Ron95, with Ron97 it does not make any difference.
I tested my Old Hyundai that requires Ron91 only and no difference....:rolleyes:
But if your car is originally tuned to RON97 then using Ron95 will have loss of power. Bringing down the ignition advance is actually bringing down it's power too.
This one I tested my VR and it cannot go pass 4.5k RPM and knocking starts...

Yeap that is it. The octane number doesn't mean the power one can churn from the fuel. It is the engine tuning itself that utilizes the octane number. It is sometimes tired and sad to hear many people including some of my friends and families believe that RON97 is more powerful than RON95 because it is more expensive, premium, high number (97 than 95, but most don't even know what the number means and what it does), etc.

And it is even more saddening when I tried to explain to them the theory behind but the acted in a way that I'm a fool and baseless, and that the rumors by others of their kind are reliable. Talking bout pride...

I wonder where is the TS btw...to the TS, does your engine knocks running on RON95, at both high or low rev? If yes, then either tune your engine or use RON97 or add octane booster. If not, just keep it that way and your engine will be fine.

 

[6UE5t]

Actually one can just look at the US who only has max RON95 available anywhere, but yet they also have most cars in the world sold there, be it slow econo cars to hyper cars with scary power levels, and all those still can run perfectly ok with the available RON95, don't they? :) So that should answer any doubt if RON95 will damage your engines or not.

Few days ago I also saw an episode of 5th gear whereby they tested several fuels of RON 95, 97, & 98 on a Golf GTI. The result was some of the higher RON do produce a bit more max power (some up to 3-4HP) but other also only produce <1HP difference compared to RON95. When test driven, they would only notice a slight difference in throttle response. So the conclusion, even if they do can make more power, it actually might not be worth the price difference as most of the time you would not benefit from it (I guess unless you go racing or time attack session where every bit of power and seconds is important). Of course again provided the car can still adjust to accommodate the lower RON so it won't knock.

 

[xtremeleo]

if ur engine comes with an ecu and it has a good knock detection system,then there must be a different when using different ron values. my rides give different pulls when changing between the two ron values,so they are quite correct when saying one is better den the other

 

[vr2turbo]

Yeap that is it. The octane number doesn't mean the power one can churn from the fuel. It is the engine tuning itself that utilizes the octane number. It is sometimes tired and sad to hear many people including some of my friends and families believe that RON97 is more powerful than RON95 because it is more expensive, premium, high number (97 than 95, but most don't even know what the number means and what it does), etc.

And it is even more saddening when I tried to explain to them the theory behind but the acted in a way that I'm a fool and baseless, and that the rumors by others of their kind are reliable. Talking bout pride...

I wonder where is the TS btw...to the TS, does your engine knocks running on RON95, at both high or low rev? If yes, then either tune your engine or use RON97 or add octane booster. If not, just keep it that way and your engine will be fine.

A lot is like that, more expensive = better.....
My mechanic once told me his spare part supplier bought a Honda with vtec engine. He is an old uncle who drives around town, so my mechanic asked him why buy the vtec and not the normal engine, his reply exactly was more expensive not better ah?
vtec to one who uses it, yes is better in power but this uncle will never rev it to activate the vtec...:rolleyes:

Normally at low revs won't knock as compression increases at high revs (more air/fuel) and that is where it knocks, mine start around 4.5k...


---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

Actually one can just look at the US who only has max RON95 available anywhere, but yet they also have most cars in the world sold there, be it slow econo cars to hyper cars with scary power levels, and all those still can run perfectly ok with the available RON95, don't they? :) So that should answer any doubt if RON95 will damage your engines or not.

Few days ago I also saw an episode of 5th gear whereby they tested several fuels of RON 95, 97, & 98 on a Golf GTI. The result was some of the higher RON do produce a bit more max power (some up to 3-4HP) but other also only produce <1HP difference compared to RON95. When test driven, they would only notice a slight difference in throttle response. So the conclusion, even if they do can make more power, it actually might not be worth the price difference as most of the time you would not benefit from it (I guess unless you go racing or time attack session where every bit of power and seconds is important). Of course again provided the car can still adjust to accommodate the lower RON so it won't knock.

The GTi is high performance, therefore Ron98 will definitely gives more power than Ron95

 

[Izso]

Actually one can just look at the US who only has max RON95 available anywhere, but yet they also have most cars in the world sold there, be it slow econo cars to hyper cars with scary power levels, and all those still can run perfectly ok with the available RON95, don't they? :) So that should answer any doubt if RON95 will damage your engines or not.

Few days ago I also saw an episode of 5th gear whereby they tested several fuels of RON 95, 97, & 98 on a Golf GTI. The result was some of the higher RON do produce a bit more max power (some up to 3-4HP) but other also only produce <1HP difference compared to RON95. When test driven, they would only notice a slight difference in throttle response. So the conclusion, even if they do can make more power, it actually might not be worth the price difference as most of the time you would not benefit from it (I guess unless you go racing or time attack session where every bit of power and seconds is important). Of course again provided the car can still adjust to accommodate the lower RON so it won't knock.

You know - I hate to personally admit this cuz I've also used the "The USA are using RON95 as premium petrol" but there's actually a flaw to this statement. The Americans don't use the same gauge as us when it comes to measuring the octane levels of petrol. They are actually much more conservative and have other things taken into consideration. I can't remember the exact explanation but RON95 to them (ie - premium gas) is almost the equivalent to our RON98 or 99.

 

[vr2turbo]

if ur engine comes with an ecu and it has a good knock detection system,then there must be a different when using different ron values. my rides give different pulls when changing between the two ron values,so they are quite correct when saying one is better den the other

Yes, as mentioned if your ride is tuned to higher Ron, higher Ron will give more power then lower Ron, but if engine is tuned to lower Ron, then higher Ron will not give any better power....

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

You know - I hate to personally admit this cuz I've also used the "The USA are using RON95 as premium petrol" but there's actually a flaw to this statement. The Americans don't use the same gauge as us when it comes to measuring the octane levels of petrol. They are actually much more conservative and have other things taken into consideration. I can't remember the exact explanation but RON95 to them (ie - premium gas) is almost the equivalent to our RON98 or 99.

US uses AKI (Anti Knock Index) and yes, AKI91 = Ron95, AK95 = Ron98 (something like that)

 

[6UE5t]

You know - I hate to personally admit this cuz I've also used the "The USA are using RON95 as premium petrol" but there's actually a flaw to this statement. The Americans don't use the same gauge as us when it comes to measuring the octane levels of petrol. They are actually much more conservative and have other things taken into consideration. I can't remember the exact explanation but RON95 to them (ie - premium gas) is almost the equivalent to our RON98 or 99.

Well actually the US octane rating is based on AKI (Anti-Knock Index) which is avg. value between RON & MON (Motor Octane Number). They have only up to 91 AKI rated fuels which is widely available in the US. Converted to RON, it should be about equivalent to our RON95 maybe max RON96 at best, but not yet reaching RON97-98.

---------- Post added at 06:34 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 06:25 PM ----------

...

The GTi is high performance, therefore Ron98 will definitely gives more power than Ron95

Yeap, I remember they tested like 4 fuels: Shell98, Esso97, BP97 and BP95 as the base. Their best test result came from Shell98 which gave >4HP increase over the baseline BP RON95. Next best was the Esso97 with also about 4HP increase, only beaten by 0.xx HP compared to the Shell98, practically negligible difference. Then the BP97 surprisingly only gave <1HP increase over the BP95!
The GTI I think was also already lightly modded as it already produced around 236HP with the BP95, then increased to around 240HP with the Shell98 & Esso97.

 

[papagoines]

Well actually the US octane rating is based on AKI (Anti-Knock Index) which is avg. value between RON & MON (Motor Octane Number). They have only up to 91 AKI rated fuels which is widely available in the US. Converted to RON, it should be about equivalent to our RON95 maybe max RON96 at best, but not yet reaching RON97-98.[

Correcto up to the point.... Their premium unleaded gasoline rated RON95 should be @ RON97 at the lowest since the difference between AKI and RON is that AKI rating is between 4 - 5 lowere than what the RON stated

One interesting fact though, most of the JDM tuners in USA resides on the west coast, and in particularly in the California where most of the time the RON max out at 91 (RON95 - RON96 for us)

so if they can say they can run 300whp B series running on regular gas, we should be paying attention to them

 

[6UE5t]

Correcto up to the point.... Their premium unleaded gasoline rated RON95 should be @ RON97 at the lowest since the difference between AKI and RON is that AKI rating is between 4 - 5 lowere than what the RON stated

One interesting fact though, most of the JDM tuners in USA resides on the west coast, and in particularly in the California where most of the time the RON max out at 91 (RON95 - RON96 for us)

so if they can say they can run 300whp B series running on regular gas, we should be paying attention to them

The US only have max octane rated AKI 91 every where, so that equals to about RON95-96 only. They don't have fuels rated AKI 95 widely available. :) Btw AKI also more often known as POM (Pump Octane Number).

 

[ae92r]

Easy to say RON95 is adequate and we can padel to the floor with it.....right???
Off course with a minor tweak at the distributor........

 

[Unsacred8002]

Yeap that is it. The octane number doesn't mean the power one can churn from the fuel. It is the engine tuning itself that utilizes the octane number. It is sometimes tired and sad to hear many people including some of my friends and families believe that RON97 is more powerful than RON95 because it is more expensive, premium, high number (97 than 95, but most don't even know what the number means and what it does), etc.

And it is even more saddening when I tried to explain to them the theory behind but the acted in a way that I'm a fool and baseless, and that the rumors by others of their kind are reliable. Talking bout pride...

I wonder where is the TS btw...to the TS, does your engine knocks running on RON95, at both high or low rev? If yes, then either tune your engine or use RON97 or add octane booster. If not, just keep it that way and your engine will be fine.

As i said, when im running on my B16A with RON95, i found no problem at all. Happily rev until 8500rpm, no knocking detected. Its just when i cruise along, den i rtelease my throttle pedal, ders a explosion sound occur from my exhaust. "Bup bup bup bup". I wonder what sound is dat. Only happen during decceleration, not acceleration.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

I wonder where is the TS btw...

Sorry bro.. Baru balik from LD. Doing weaponry assesment over there. Huhu.. Just coming back last Sunday. Happy to see my family and My car safely. hehehe.

 

[cvkit17]

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As i said, when im running on my B16A with RON95, i found no problem at all. Happily rev until 8500rpm, no knocking detected. Its just when i cruise along, den i rtelease my throttle pedal, ders a explosion sound occur from my exhaust. "Bup bup bup bup". I wonder what sound is dat. Only happen during decceleration, not acceleration.

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

I wonder where is the TS btw...

Sorry bro.. Baru balik from LD. Doing weaponry assesment over there. Huhu.. Just coming back last Sunday. Happy to see my family and My car safely. hehehe.

Wah lahad datu?

The exhaust bup bup bup isn't engine knocking sound. Engine knocking sound is something like pinging..like two flat flexible plate tapping each other...klank klank klank. If you wana have a feel of how it sounds, try going up hill, then put high gear and press the pedal. You hear that sound for sure.

I think ur engine has no problem with RON95. But as per mentioned before, the safest is by looking at the engine spec and manual book for clearer statement.