If you stop with the dislike button mashing, I will answer you properly. I've already answered Razlan's post by email earlier on:
Question 1 :
I believe this post will be deleted and if it is, its a misuse of moderator privileges. I hope this stays up because its constructive, does not have foul language and is meant to express an opinion.
The reason why this project is phenomenally unsuccessful in addition to what our esteemed member BLaCkHoWLiNG has already listed is the fact that the reasons for which this car is being built keep changing.
When the project first started, it was meant as a ZTH tool for fund raising and charity related events. At this point, I was all for it and I would have eagerly helped raise money from corporates and individuals alike. Then, the scope changed and suddenly the goal was to build a sports car capable of God knows whatever speed for under RM50,000. At this point, I was already turned off by the project because at around the same time, I realized that this car is not owned by ZTH but by one of the moderators. Now, the goal of the project has changed yet again and its now to compete in some classic car championship or whatnot while flying the ZTH flag proudly on its rusted fenders.
Not only is this misrepresentation, its a disgrace and I believe its an insult to every single ZTH member who pays for their own mods. Some of us aren't well off, some are filthy rich but none of us ask for handouts. Especially when its to support a hobby or a passion of ours. If you're really passionate about something, you'd work your butt off to afford it somehow rather than coming up with some fraudulent scheme to squeeze money out of the members here on ZTH who have car maintenance, repairs, instalments etc to worry about.
It's not like you're agreeing to match RM1 for every RM1 donated even. All you've donated according to this 'temperature meter' is RM300. That's not even half of what other people have sacrificed in cold hard cash. Yet you could afford to go holidaying around Europe partying etc and you come home expecting handouts? Many of the people here have probably never been to Europe yet they have the dignity to pay their own way through life.
Answer 1:
The project was deemed to be phenomenonly unsuccessful because you assumed so. The project is working at a slow pace because I have mentioned to you that, the labour sponsor is taking his time to strip out the car. First and foremost. The theme of the project, has always been to build a supercar beater under RM50,000. Take it as a Top Gear Challenge. I am not a moderator of Zerotohundred.com. I am a staff as of April 2011, when Tom later changes our designations to Contributors. I was hired in a time where Tom still pays his employees, even Dinesh if you recalled. Whatever I earn from writing for Tom, is directly paid back to the loan of the car, to offset the difference. Tom was definitely not willing to put out RM10,000 to someone who never knew, so I suggested a measure of security, that is to create a bank loan under my name. Should he finds my writing unsatisfactory, he could terminate me and I could sell the rest of the car and bare the losses. A big gamble, but for the sake of educating how it is possible to rescue a scrap yard car and build it to something awesome, Tom views it as a noble cause.
I did mentioned, the possible outcome of having such a car:
a) A participant car between Tom and me in the upcoming Zerotohundred.com TimetoAttack. Unfortunately it didn't happened this year, due to busy schedules in Sepang
b) Showcase car of what we can do and show the world what Malaysian's can do. It is a way to be proud of being Malaysian
c) With the money donated in the donation box, I am able to use the money for good cause, to perform research and development and educate the members of the public about how to build up a car. It was sad to see a legacy of motoring history going to the scrap, considering people would just junk their old cars and buy new ones. Where the opposite culture prevails in other countries of the world, where old is good.
d) I did this project on the understanding that I will be able to get help from sponsors to complete the project. In exchange from the money and paid sponsorship for the car, I am certain I am able to use the car as a mobile advertisement billboard car on the road.
e) With a finished car, I was hoping I would be able to do a taxi ride for any unfortunate children on Sepang track. At least they get to feel how it is like sitting in a fast car. I could load up the car with boxes of goodies to be given up to the children. But honestly I have not handled any charity at that scale and have no experience. My previous experience was only handling a small 10km Ekiden run around Ipoh town, to raise money for Tsunami victims in Japan. I was the treasurer for the event.
Question 2:
And even if this is all for charity as you had originally led us all to believe, what guarantee does anyone have that you'll even complete the project? Is Tom going to personally guarantee every RM donated and every man hour companies put in that you will see this through? Where's your Honda? Did you complete it totally? How long did that take? What's your track record with restorations? I remember you telling me "someday I'll reach a point where I'll be passionate enough to restore something yada yada" or something along those lines. Quite patronizing I must admit but I let it slide. Considering the fact that I've been in the scene slightly longer than you with just under a decade of RB engines and having had the pleasure of moderating Skylines Australia, I believe "that point in life" you're referring to has long since passed for me. For you, its time to grow up.
In parting, let me just leave you with this piece of advice. Call it a day. You just do not have what it takes to raise money. How do I know? Browse through the latest edition of Hypertune and Shift and you'll see how the Skyline owners raised money for charity and although I won't divulge the exact amount, all up it was more than 10x what you have raised so far. And we did it in less than two weeks. Why? Because its was for a good cause. People don't give to people, people give to causes. How do I know? Well, having raised money for quite a few years now for our privately run orphanage I think I know a thing or two by now.
For all those who maintain that Kevin's personal life should remain private, I couldn't agree with you more. However, Kevin obviously does not think so. For the past few hours I've been inundated with messages both via SMS and on FB from friends who were contacted by Kevin wanting to get my number.
Why does he want to speak to me privately? I do not know. All I asked was very simple and I'll list it down again:
1) Initially Kevin said the car was to be used for fund raising activities to which I was enthusiastic and agreed to donate a spare HKS F-Con which I'm not using. At this point in time, if you read the earlier threads note how it seems as though this was a car owned by ZTH and Kevin was sort of the appointed guy to spearhead the project. Even to this day, he keeps using "we" as though there is more than one person who has a stake in the car.
2) Fast forward a few weeks later and suddenly the goal has changed to proving that a performance car or something can be built for under RM50k. I believe there was even an implied target top speed and a lot of the posts had a Wangan theme to it. What happened to the fund raising, displaying the car all over the country?
3) Now the goal seems to be racing the car in some classic car championship which I admit I don't know much about. Nevertheless, I fail to see the link between any form of competitive racing AND fundraising.
That is the main issue I believe Kevin has yet to clarify. Why the changes in the scope of the project? If someone had donated RM50 in the second week thinking it was going towards a car built to raise funds for charity is it fair to him that the goal is to now race the car? Shouldn't that money be returned?
The reason why I mentioned the European trip was to question Kevin's dedication to the project. Given the fact that he has managed to squeeze in a long holiday which I'm sure wasn't cheap, why only RM300 attributed to you so far based on what you have posted in your graph? As you said, if one were to follow you 24/7 then the dedication you have towards this project would be obvious but if this was truly your goal then it should be reflected in the contributions. If indeed you had contributed more than the RM300 you listed, why not list it all down properly? That's what full disclosure is all about isn't it.
You solicited donations from people under various pretences and not a single receipt of any kind has been posted here on ZTH.
Answer 2:
Value of something is always measured differently by everyone else. Sometimes giving out money is a form of charity. Giving out free education is also a form of charity. At least I don't charge by the hour or hide any technical knowledge I gained from the build. The build is solely to enchance one's knowledge in hope they can learn something about it. I believe if I can educate people to be wiser and smarter, why doesn't that count. I am putting 2 years of my time, to write something out, to be paid at a meagre wage and never asking Tom additional money for reimbursing my travel, phone and petrol costs to Kuala Lumpur. One would know, I am not from KL and it costs up to RM150 per trip. It took me several trips to KL to sort things out, as people needed to see me face to face, before they put trust on sponsoring the project. If that is not charity, then I don't know what it is. I just don't declare the amount spent because I felt it was unnecessary and looked petty.
I haven't finished the Honda for many reasons. The engine is not your average engine. It is a hell of an engineering gem. It runs on roller bearing crank and the crank is fragile and no one here really knows how to fix it. It runs on ITB, so you have to get the original carbs to run the car. Nothing can be modified or retro-fitted. Only original parts can be used. Try fixing up an early 1970's C10 Nissan Skyline, I bet you will enjoy the fun of sourcing for parts and all. Collectors keep these parts and often you have to beg them to sell them. When you strip the car apart, you realised there could be more gremlins to it. I persevered for the long journey. I suggest you check out
Honda | Acura Research, Reviews, Performance Parts, Owners - Honda-Tech.com , there are a few restorations in progress for the Honda S600 and most of them take more than 2-3 years. Brian Baker, the restorer for Jay Leno's Honda S600 took 7 years to finish up his car. So technology helps a lot now, when there is access to Ebay and Japan Yahoo Auctions! You may have experience in the RB engine, but you may not have any idea how the AS285 engine works. I look forward to any sound advice you can provided. I've been moderators and admins on several tech, graphic designing and anime club forums. I believe you would know Lowyat.net and you can ask the rest of the guys how was knowledge on them. I am always open to learning something new.
1) I have no use for your HKS F-con as we don't even have an ECU for the engine we are looking at. As mentioned in the other email, Tom left the project to me, as he had to finish up renovating and starting up his office.
2) It has always been a performance car to be built under RM50K. There is a thread before Week 1 that states that.
http://www.zerotohundred.com/newfor...-supercar-beater-project-sponsors-needed.html . I suggested that the car could be used to bringing up charity work. That's what I did. But I did not had a solid plan laid out at that point of writing.
3) That was not a goal. That was just saying, what we can do with the car finished. The scope of the project never changed. It was always and has been to demonstrate it was possible to build a supercar beater at RM50,000 or less. Only a complete car could be realisation of more activities we can do, namely charity in this sense.
Are you able to disprove the above statement? Until you do, I believe I'm not the only one who would continue to question this project of yours. Which brings me to my final points:
1) It looks to me like what you're now trying to do is swap chassis between the two Z31s. I have to ask on behalf of everyone - is this legal or not?
2) What happens if the end result of your project fails to pass an inspection? Is everyone reimbursed? What is your contingency plan? Since you've submitted numerous proposals, surely this was something you had anticipated?
Lastly, I couldn't help but notice that someone implied that the Skyline community was 'jealous of the financial benefits' that Kevin has somehow received from the project. Let me be clear in saying that this isn't the case. It's not the amount of money that matters but firstly, how you went about soliciting it and secondly how you've failed to provide full disclosure on all things related to the project.
If this project was truly a project owned by ZTH and is used for fund raising as originally implied, I would have gotten the Skyline community to buy that RB26DETT for you. If that car becomes the property of ZTH and you have guaranteed in writing the completion of the car in a road legal form I will personally guarantee you that RB26DETT engine you have been posting week after week.
1) That is not a chassis swap. I merely state that they will be using panels, such as fender and doors from the silver car and transplant them into the red car. This is just a way of swapping parts and it will be legal.
2) If the project car fails to pass inspection, I will immediately sell the track car at a price that is reasonable to people on Zerotohundred or on the any classifieds. That way, with the money I have collected, I will disburse back the amount donated by the original donors.
If you believe you can honor your words on helping me out. I will gladly honor it out for you, in writing. Let's put a nice agreement to that. But that's up to you to help.
Question 3
BTW, if you really wanted to raise money don't set a minimum donation of RM50. People will give what they want to give. If someone can spare RM10 or RM20 then take it.
Can you please explain this in more detail? From what I understand, you asked if you could use this forum to ask for donations prior to buying the car? Or did the idea of asking for donations come from forumers later on? Which is it?
How is your bank loan any security to Tom (sorry for dragging Tom into this)? Are you saying you are a salaried employee for ZTH and you took out a loan under your name and the instalments are paid out of the salary that Tom pays you?
Answer 3
Tom was the one who told me that I should start the donation box with a minimum of RM50. I don't mind a smaller denomination, but if the money was thru Paypal, the commission would have eaten a large portion of it.
The idea of donations came later on. The focus was always asking for sponsorship from corporate parties. But it was awfully difficult to ask money from sponsors when they haven't met you in person or actually expressed such interests in such a project. One of the sponsors quoted saying this was an unique project and would be the first around Malaysia. Somewhat like "Overhaulin" she says. But yes, I will still look around for sponsors. So far the success only lies on product sponsors, as they were immediate friends.
Question 4
Iszo,
I respect the fact that you're trying to mediate this. I'll admit it started off as an excellent idea - which was fund raising tool for ZTH. I'm just questioning the sudden shifts in scope of the project. The lack of receipts etc are secondary to that as I had promised to donate an F-Con for a vehicle to be used to raise funds not to be raced in some classic car championship.
And also if you note Kevin's own posts contradicts himself as to when he started soliciting funds and for what reasons. This is misrepresentation and I among others feel that we have been told half-truths.
No one is recommending it to be a ZTH project, it was already portrayed as being such from the start. There's the lack of transparency more than one person has pointed to. And furthermore, my opinions do no reflect the thinking of the Skyline club. Perhaps a few think the same but certainly I'd never dream of speaking for everyone. Plus, some even came forward with extremely helpful suggestions like gobiz2.
And I agree with you regarding the misunderstandings on forums as Blackhowling had already hinted to Kevin that he was way off track many weeks back but for some reason posts went missing. Had Kevin read them properly and understood the meaning, he'd have gotten the message but I guess its too late for that now. Why the posts were deleted when there was nothing vulgar, etc in them? Especially when so many other posts on these forums are much much worse?
Anyway, I'm done with this. It's obvious Kevin will not answer any of the queries I had posted so I'm not going to waste my time. Best of luck with the rebuild, the donations and the inspection.
Yes, and the fact that the project has had three different objectives so far the first of which was noble. The reasons why the scope has changed has still not been answered. I think Kevin thinks he has but I guess we'll never know.
Answer 4
Scope has never been changed. It was always as per the first post prior to week 1. I do have the receipts, but the costs of the project, e.g. purchase of car, towing and repairs were all borne by me, so I believe they were not needed to be disclosed.
I believe that I had only brainstormed and merely suggested that this is what we can do. I really did not have a solid plan as I am not good with charity work. However, if someone could point me out a good way doing it, I would wholeheartedly commit to it. I have never organised a donation drive, but merely have donated money to needy organisations and such. What I did was participated in one charity project organised by the Rotary Club as said before. Hence I only said, only 1 year worth of experience donig so. And 1 year can be a long time, depending how you see it.
Tom,
Sorry to drag you into this. I guess I've put you in awkward spot having to come out and defend Kevin while at the same time being inundated with PMs etc from a lot of people - long time members and friends alike. However, forums live and die on the people who contribute to it and I believe mizunori77 has summed up the general feeling most people harbour towards this project. Regardless, if there are any charity events such as a car wash to raise money for children with cancer or something meaningful then you can definitely count on my support as mentioned before.
It takes more than one person to get charity box running? Clearly you haven't done much if you don't know the world of difference even one man can make to so many lives.
Question 5
Originally Posted by Kevin Lee
i am personally a rotary club member of RC Ipoh. I understand charity and all and have been involved in certain plannings, like Ekiden Run for raising funds for the Tsunami victims in Japan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Lee
i never said charity box, i said charitable events. the coordination, the letter writing and all the legal stuffs. i admit to you that, i've only looked into charity last year.
it takes a lot of effort and people to set up a charity i believe as i have never run it alone
See it took you only two posts to contradict yourself. Yet you ask for trust and want credibility. Sorry dude, I'm out.
Ciao.
Answer 5
I honestly admitted to you that I only looked on charity work last year. That was my main motivation when I was invited to join Rotary club. Before that, it was just donation thru donation boxes and donation drives. It's up to you on how should you trust me.
I believe I have actually written out what need's to be said. I have the obligation to protect my sponsors and prevent the project from failing in hopes that I do not dissapoint them. I hope you can understand my difficult position. I apologize in advance if my answers are still not satisfactory for you. Cheers
Kevin