How to choose engine oil?

Enhanced Vehicle

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Perhaps some elaboration on the short forms? I can't get what you mentioned above bro.

Also, what are the cons of non API licensed oil?
Redline is ester based synthetic oil....

Pros of ester base oil:
1) High Viscosity Index, meaning the viscosity is more stable under high temp fluctuation.
2) Good low temp performance
3) Good deposit control, meaning good cleansing capability.
4) Hydrolytic stable, less decomposition.
5) Good film strength, meaning the lubricant can take very high pressure sandwiched between 2 surfaces.

Cons of ester base oil:
1) Less miscible oil, meaning you would have problem mixing with additive/chemical.
2) Hygroscopic: Ester will naturally attract water/moisture from atmosphere.
3) Elastomer compatibility: Less friendly with rubber/polymer seals in engine


Non API licensed means the quality / performance of oil is not checked / measured by API... meaning that there is no 3rd party audit on the quality / performance.....

---------- Post added at 10:13 AM ---------- 6 hour anti-bump limit - Previous post was at 10:02 AM ----------

i have to agree dat some dealers/shops are not even aware selling fake oils.
end up we as consumer will get rip off...

thanks for ur advise... :adore:
Don't thank me, I had not advise you yet on how to avoid counterfeit / fake oil....

I have some guideline which might help, but I am not going to reveal here because who knows there are fake oil makers/sellers also reading this tread...

Pardon me, I only share this guideline with people I know personally...
 

aalto

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I usually by 2-3 bottles every year during UMW raya warehouse sale (Penzoil/Repsol). Confirmed original straight from factory..
 

EvolutionZ

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Lucas Oil...?
 

csl

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Do you ever think that Exx rig uses Sel grease and Pet oil company sell off own crude oil and import others crude oil for local market is a joke after the dinner? The 1st busted myth is that, companies only care about the numbers in the revenue. The rest is not important be it using competitor's product.

Most oil in Malaysia is not API certified, including some imported from USA. They just following the API spec formula without sending sample to API to get certified and pay the royalty for using the logo. Some may have API logo thing but that is not the API certified logo. Please look for the CERTIFIED word from the logo. But certified or not, doesn't mean that the oil is good or bad. For different engine, different driving style, different environment and etc, some brand of oil is good at certain area but there is no 1 oil good for all. Malaysia is not popular with oil analysis thing for measure the cutting and etc due to the extra cost and effort. You can google for it if you want. That will tell you which oil is good for you in a more accurate way compare to the stories from wiki.

If someone tell you rotary cannot use syntactic oil, what you are gonna answer? RE-Amemiya Super G will not be wrong? No. You must use it for a cycle, take oil sample and do analysis (the minimum must do). Then open up the engine and check carbon deposit level. Check the clearance on the friction parts and etc. Keep the data try other oil and compare the results. If someone tell R35 must use those Nismo or R35 specified oil (Willall and etc), then I'll ask him to show me evident that why cannot use castrol edge (I'm not sure either). Regardless dino or semi or syntactic, There is no definition on which is better cause need data to prove. Someone created bearing wear test to compare the oil film protection but that is far less accurate compare to oil analysis in overall.
 

Enhanced Vehicle

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Do you ever think that Exx rig uses Sel grease and Pet oil company sell off own crude oil and import others crude oil for local market is a joke after the dinner? The 1st busted myth is that, companies only care about the numbers in the revenue. The rest is not important be it using competitor's product.

Most oil in Malaysia is not API certified, including some imported from USA. They just following the API spec formula without sending sample to API to get certified and pay the royalty for using the logo. Some may have API logo thing but that is not the API certified logo. Please look for the CERTIFIED word from the logo. But certified or not, doesn't mean that the oil is good or bad. For different engine, different driving style, different environment and etc, some brand of oil is good at certain area but there is no 1 oil good for all. Malaysia is not popular with oil analysis thing for measure the cutting and etc due to the extra cost and effort. You can google for it if you want. That will tell you which oil is good for you in a more accurate way compare to the stories from wiki.

If someone tell you rotary cannot use syntactic oil, what you are gonna answer? RE-Amemiya Super G will not be wrong? No. You must use it for a cycle, take oil sample and do analysis (the minimum must do). Then open up the engine and check carbon deposit level. Check the clearance on the friction parts and etc. Keep the data try other oil and compare the results. If someone tell R35 must use those Nismo or R35 specified oil (Willall and etc), then I'll ask him to show me evident that why cannot use castrol edge (I'm not sure either). Regardless dino or semi or syntactic, There is no definition on which is better cause need data to prove. Someone created bearing wear test to compare the oil film protection but that is far less accurate compare to oil analysis in overall.

You are right, many companies buy base oil from others.... Well, it is not a definite indication that the base oil is bad if they source it elsewhere because lubricant blender can buy very good quality base oil.... As I said before, it is just my preference because I think it will have better consistency of quality control if they all make it in-house....




Well, the question should be: If you think the engine oil you make is of highest quality, and you also mention that your oil meet certain API service standard, what stops you from getting certification?

Due to the cost of certification is too high? I don't think so, The 2012 royalty fees for the API Engine Oil Licensing and Certification System (EOLCS) is:
- USD 2,500 for the first million gallon
- USD 0.003 for each gallon after the million mark...

It is less than 1 cent (ringgit) per bottle...

I would rationally think the reason of not getting API should be irrelevant to cost....



Again, I couldn't agree more with you, UOA (Used Oil Analysis) would be an accurate way of gauging or measuring whether the engine oil is good or not....

but, there is a problem...

- By the time UOA shows result that the used engine oil from your car is of low quality, the damage has already been done on your engine....

API / ILSAC are performing test on oil using real engine and other methods.... API and ILSAC might not be the best certification bodies, but still better than none....
 

csl

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I don't know the cost for getting API to certified. Perhaps you can email or call to every engine oil company and ask why they save the cost for printing the 'certified' word and the starburst logo of API :rofl:






Below is the link direct from API:
http://www.api.org/certification-pr...ublications/Engine-Oil-Guide-2010-120210.ashx


If you have time, please check at the engine oil selling shop and see if any of them got the API thing on the bottle, this include Shell and etc too. I believe Motul doesn't con people with its 300V and LiquiMoly doesn't rip you off with its product, although I use M7 Super Street 10w40 :rofl:

So, due to so many oil in the market, which can be trust? Just pick a bottle that has good reputation and fall into your budget and then use it for a cycle then do an oil analysis. If the result falls into the acceptance category, then just go ahead and continue use it for next or you can pick another oil and do the analysis again. Even you pour the oil from the same drum and use it for the same model of car that rolled out from the same product batch, 1 car eventually is gonna be better than another, just the different is less compare to other cars. If you put the end users driving style in consideration, the different will extend till unlimited. So to determine a type of oil that suit a person with that particular car, oil analysis is the cheapest way. Just pour the old oil and check the cutting level (metal powder, not metal chips that as big as human nose dried fluid). Even you buy the most expensive ultra strong super oil, you will still have cutting that can be traced. But do you need to spend RM500 per oil change for a Myvi? Practically, you can just dump whatever oil into it regardless if it is recycled engine oil or not. The tolerance is high because the engine is not that sensitive compare to high performance engine. Besides that, oil analysis also can check the other things to determine if your engine got other problem:

Fuel dilution of lubrication oil
Dirt contamination in the oil
Antifreeze in the oil
Misapplication of lubricants

I do agree that got API certified is better than not. But at the same time API certified doesn't mean anything too, especially in Malaysia. Only oil test can tell you right away: you are good to use this oil on this car.

My MIL can use cheap oil for a Vios for 10k km/oil change. But if the same car with the same oil hand over to those person like blackhowling or evolutionZ or maybe me, I doubt the car can survive after 3 years :rofl: So there is no definition which oil is the best oil. Only those oil that suite your need and can be afforded by you is the best oil that worth you to waste your blood and sweat. But for those people who barely can afford a sports car but finally got 1, use common sense a bit, don't buy cheap shit and pour into the engine and see if it is ok :banghead:
 

Enhanced Vehicle

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I am just a consumer, I think instead of me reminding the engine oil blenders that they should get their product API certified, they should explain to the public why don't they do it...:rofl::rofl:

I find it really really funny, many engine oil blenders which are not API certified are still claiming that their products "meeting / exceeding API XX standard".....

So, if they think API standard is nothing, or it is something not relevant to the engine oil they produced, just tell consumer frankly that they do not refer to API because it has loo low benchmark and explain how their in house quality audit is more stringent than ASTM tests performed by API.... Well, this is a free market, you are free to claim that API is a lousy engine oil quality audit system....

so,

Please do us , consumers, a favour..... If you do not agree with API, and feel proud of not having your products API certified, please don't claim that your products "meet" or "exceed" API xx standard...
 

amrancharger

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why not just buy what the service centre is selling?
for example perodua, toyota and honda got their engine oils rite...buy dat instead.
shouldnt dat be more wise choice since it was produced for each vehicle requirement? and dun tink they(svc center) will sell recycle or imitation oil.

but i dun tink they got any API certification. :smokin:
 

Enhanced Vehicle

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Oct 21, 2012
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why not just buy what the service centre is selling?
for example perodua, toyota and honda got their engine oils rite...buy dat instead.
shouldnt dat be more wise choice since it was produced for each vehicle requirement? and dun tink they(svc center) will sell recycle or imitation oil.

but i dun tink they got any API certification. :smokin:
Bro, you have got it right!

Most car branded engine oil that is sold in service centers in Malaysia, which is made in Singapore, Malaysia and Thailand, is not API, or ILSAC certified....

Another thing.... I would like to know what is the sure fire way to tell that engine oil sold by service center is not recycled or counterfeit? Chances of this might be slim but it is not impossible....
 

5112121

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How to Choose the Right Oil (Taken from The Motor Oil Bible)

This is probably the number one question that I receive from people. “How do I
know what oil to use for MY vehicle?” There are actually a number of preceding
questions you need to ask yourself long before you can effectively answer this
more general, but extremely important, question.

Motor oil is the most important component of your engine. Without it, your
engine dies. With the wrong oil, your engine dies slowly. Getting it right really
does matter. Use this guide to help you make the best selection possible so that
you can get as much life as possible out of your engine.

MOTOR OIL TYPE

First and foremost, do not overlook the fact that viscosity is not the only criteria
critical to proper motor oil selection. You must choose an oil that is matched to
your application with regards to it's formulation and design, specifically
basestocks and additives used. For example, if you are running a diesel engine,
then you had better be sure the oil you choose is rated for diesel engines.
Similarly, if you are running a gas engine, then the oil should be formulated for
use in gasoline engines.

Of course, sometimes, an oil can be rated for both gas and diesel use. However,
your oil should meet at least the minimum API specifications required for YOUR
vehicle. For instance, if your vehicle manual calls for an API SL oil (which is a
gas engine oil specification), then your oil should specify that it meets/exceeds
that minimum standard (in other words, it should be rated for API SL, SM, ...). It
MAY meet other specifications as well, but it MUST, at a minimum, meet the API
SL specification.

Likewise, if you are running a diesel engine and your owner's manual specifies
that you should only use API CI-4 oils, then you should not use an oil that is
only rated for CH-4. This is not a recent enough specification. However, if the oil
you are considering indicates that it meets API CJ specs, then you're ok, since “J”
comes after “I”. API specs are generally “backwards compatible”, meaning that
the CJ spec also is appropriate for use in vehicles calling for CI, CH, CG, CF, etc.
(all PREVIOUS API diesel classifications).

Moreover, some vehicle manufacturers will specify OEM specific ratings that an
oil must also meet. This is more common with European vehicles, but is
becoming more common with US manufacturers as well. So, if your owner's
manual says that your oil is to meet BMW specification XYZ123, then you had
better make sure that the oil you're considering indicates that it meets that OEM
spec.

SYNTHETIC OR PETROLEUM

This is a question that is actually a relatively critical one IF you have any concern
over how long your vehicle/engine should last. There are plenty of situations
that do NOT warrant the use of synthetic oil, and you may very well be in one of
those situations, depending upon your vehicle, how you drive, where you drive
or how long you intend to keep your vehicle. Of course, it is just as likely that
your situation may very well warrant the use of synthetic oil, and the decision
regarding which you should choose is not necessarily a simple one.

The truth is, there are MANY variables that affect this decision, not the least of
which is just how much trust you put in a synthetic oil to offer enhanced
protection and possibly extended oil drains. Some of the many benefits that
synthetic oils offer can only be taken full advantage of if you actually trust them
to offer those benefits and push the oils beyond what a conventional petroleum
oil could accomplish.

By now, if you've read the preceding chapters of this book, you already know
what you need in order to make an educated decision in this regard.

THE VISCOSITY QUESTION

In most cases you can simply go with the manufacturer's recommended viscosity
grade. Of course, if you're considering a synthetic oil, it is generally very safe to
go to a lesser “w” rating than what is recommended by the manufacturer
(although the higher the quality of the synthetic, the more true that statement is).
For instance, if the manufacturer recommends a 10w30 viscosity (and isn't
already specifying the use of synthetic oil), then you would be safe to use a 5w30
or 0w30 synthetic oil.

Generally (see below for exceptions), if the vehicle manufacturer specifies an
XwY viscosity oil (such as 5w30, where “X” is “5” and “Y” is “30“), under most
circumstances you should stick with the same “Y” value, but can go to a lesser
“X” value to improve cold weather performance and possibly fuel efficiency.

However, in my opinion, you should ONLY do this if you're moving to a
synthetic oil and synthetic is NOT already being specified by the vehicle
manufacturer.

In other words, if your vehicle manufacturer is calling for a 10w30 SYNTHETIC
oil, then, although you MAY be able to go to a 5w30 synthetic oil, I, personally,
would not recommend it without some significant investigation into the issue.
On the other hand, in nearly all cases, if the vehicle manufacturer is calling for a
10w30 oil and does NOT specifically indicate that you should use a synthetic oil,
then, you should be able to EASILY move to a 5w30 synthetic oil, and possibly
even a 0w30 synthetic oil with no trouble at all.

If the manufacturer specifies multiple viscosities that can be used in your vehicle
but does NOT specify the need to use synthetic oil, then a petroleum oil of ANY
of those listed viscosities would be fine, although, the conditions under which
the vehicle will be driven would dictate whether to stay at the “high end” or
“low end” of the viscosity range listed.

Will you be driving in cold temperatures mostly? Go with a lower viscosity.
Congested city driving where engine temps can rise considerably? Heavy
towing (same heat issues)? Do you live in a very hot climate? Stay at the higher
end of the scale.

All of these and other driving conditions should be taken into account in trying
to find the BEST viscosity for your application. However, ANY of the listed
viscosities should be adequate, even if using petroleum oil, since the
manufacturer is not specifying synthetic as being mandatory.

In contrast, if the vehicle OEM is NOT specifically calling for synthetic, but
you're planning on going that direction, then, nearly always, you can safely stick
to the lowest “Y” value listed and could even go to a LOWER “X” value. So, for
instance, if the manufacturer said you could use 10w30 or 10w40 in your vehicle,
unless your application falls under one of the exceptions below, you could safely
stick to an Xw30 oil (using the lowest “Y” value listed) and you could go with a
0w30 or 5w30 oil safely, even though the manufacturer listed only 10w options.

Don't Thicker Oils Offer Greater Protection?

The cop-out answer is SOMETIMES. Thicker isn't always better - even when
using a petroleum oil. Although it is true that heavier viscosity oils (which are
generally thought of as being “thicker”) will hold up better under heavy loads
and high temperatures, this doesn't necessarily make them a better choice for all
applications.

NOTE: When I refer to higher or heavier viscosity oils, I'm referring to the
“second” number of a multi-viscosity specification. In other words, a 10w40
would be heavier than a 10w30 because 40 is higher than 30. I'm not making any
reference to the “w” rating because this doesn't come into play unless you're
referencing cold temperature performance.

You see, on many newer vehicles only 5w30 or 10w30 motor oils are
recommended by the manufacturer. If you choose to use a higher viscosity oil
than what is recommended, at the very least you are likely to reduce
performance of the engine. Fuel economy will likely go down. Engine
performance will likely drop.

In the winter months I would highly recommend that you not use a heavier
grade oil than what is recommended by the manufacturer. In cold start
conditions you could very well be causing more engine wear than when using a
lighter viscosity oil. In the summer months, going to a heavier grade is less of an
issue, but there are still some things to be aware of.

Moving one grade up from the recommended viscosity is not likely to cause any
problems (say from a 10w30 to a 10w40 oil). The differences in pumping and
flow resistance will be slight. Although, as was mentioned, efficiency of the
engine will decrease, the oil will likely still flow adequately through the engine
to maintain proper protection, and, under certain circumstances (heavy load,
high RPM), you MAY see improved protection with this heavier oil.
Moving two grades up from the recommended viscosity (say 10w30 to 20w50) is
a little more extreme and could cause long term engine damage if not short term.
Here's the thing. Although the oil will still probably flow ok through the engine,
it is a considerably heavier viscosity oil. As such it will be more difficult to pump
the oil through the engine.

More friction will be present than with a lighter viscosity oil. More friction
means more heat. In other words, by going to a heavier weight oil, you may
actually be causing more heat build-up within the engine. You'll still be
providing adequate protection from metal to metal contact in the engine by
going with a high viscosity, but the higher viscosity will raise engine
temperatures.

Over the short run, this is no big deal. However, over the long term, when
engine components are chronically run at higher temperatures, they WILL wear
out more quickly. As such, if you intend on keeping the vehicle for awhile, keep
this in mind if you're considering using a heavier weight oil than the
manufacturer recommends.

The key is to generally stay away from viscosity grades that are not mentioned
in your owner's manual. Sometimes vehicle manufacturers will make reference
to the possibility of using a 10w40, 15w40 or 20w50 motor oil, even though they
might recommend a lighter weight oil for most situations.

If this allowance is made, you'll be ok using a heavier grade of oil. You'll
probably see a drop in mpg using the heavier oils, but you will not likely cause
any long term engine problems. I would recommend, however, to stick with the
lower weight recommendations if using a synthetic oil, even if you're running
the engine in higher temp climates. I think you know why by now.

If the manufacturer does not make allowance for heavier weight oils, it would be
my recommendation that you DO NOT use a heavier weight oil in your engine.
Under most circumstances, stick with a viscosity grade that is recommended by
the manufacturer. And, if you do choose to use a heavier weight oil, at least
make sure that you only move up one grade. Never move up two grades.

Exceptions to the Above Rule

1. If yours is a racing application, more investigation would be necessary to
determine the proper viscosity to be using in your engine.
2. If yours is a heavy duty application where your vehicle is being subjected
to EXTREME service such as towing extremely heavy loads, you may
want to consider going to one of the heavier recommended viscosities.
3. If you are not comfortable venturing outside of OEM viscosity
recommendations, then, by all means stick with what your vehicle
manufacturer recommends. OEM viscosity recommendations will be
perfectly safe for your vehicle and will make your selection process easy.

Specialized Cases

It is possible, depending upon how you are using your vehicles or equipment,
that a more extreme divergence from the OEM viscosity recommendation might
be appropriate. However, if you think this may be the case, before making the
decision to diverge entirely from the manufacturer's viscosity recommendation,
please do your homework.


MOTOR OIL QUALITY COMPARISONS

Once you've managed to decide the type and viscosity of oil you should
probably be using, the question then comes down to determining which of the
oils that meet your criteria are the best of the bunch. In most respects, the only
way to really make that determination is to check the specs. It's not a perfect
technique, since the specs can “lie” in some ways, but, it's the best option you've
got.
 

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